CAP Talk

Operations => Emergency Services & Operations => Topic started by: capip1998 on December 03, 2016, 08:13:48 AM

Title: ES eLearning or CBT
Post by: capip1998 on December 03, 2016, 08:13:48 AM
Has anybody seen any online ES training for classroom tasks that includes a full online presentation AND testing? I'm looking into creating some but don't want to reinvent the wheel.


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Title: Re: ES eLearning or CBT
Post by: THRAWN on December 03, 2016, 12:23:49 PM
CAP specific or ES in general?
Title: Re: ES eLearning or CBT
Post by: RiverAux on December 03, 2016, 01:07:17 PM
I still don't understand why we haven't yet developed online training modules for all our classroom-based knowledge tasks. Its ridiculous that this wasn't done 10 years ago.  Allowing folks to knock those out online and focus their in-person training time on those skills that need to be learned would radically speed up the process -- especially since we have no real system of regularly schedule classroom training for ES. 
Title: Re: ES eLearning or CBT
Post by: capip1998 on December 03, 2016, 02:43:27 PM
CAP specific or ES in general?

I'm referring specifically to the F&P tasks for GTM, MSA, MRO, and perhaps MS. I'm envisioning something like the ICUT, videos with quizzes.


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Title: Re: ES eLearning or CBT
Post by: capip1998 on December 03, 2016, 02:44:13 PM
I still don't understand why we haven't yet developed online training modules for all our classroom-based knowledge tasks. Its ridiculous that this wasn't done 10 years ago.  Allowing folks to knock those out online and focus their in-person training time on those skills that need to be learned would radically speed up the process -- especially since we have no real system of regularly schedule classroom training for ES.

This is exactly what I'm looking at. There is even free software available to make them.


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Title: Re: ES eLearning or CBT
Post by: ProdigalJim on December 03, 2016, 04:59:07 PM
I still don't understand why we haven't yet developed online training modules for all our classroom-based knowledge tasks. Its ridiculous that this wasn't done 10 years ago.  Allowing folks to knock those out online and focus their in-person training time on those skills that need to be learned would radically speed up the process -- especially since we have no real system of regularly schedule classroom training for ES.

This is exactly what I'm looking at. There is even free software available to make them.


Mixed feelings about this. I agree our training needs to be a.) more widely available, b.) much, much higher quality, c.) current, d.) consistent, and e.) professional. Right now it's ad hoc and a mixed bag.

I also think, however, that often CBT leaves people thinking they know more but actually knowing less. There's a lot of pencil-whipping that's possible when you just work through the check boxes. I also think CBT does a very BAD job of imparting culture, and that's part of what we want to do with ES training. Instill the "response mentality," and the professionalism. The hands-on-portion could and should do that, but you need to be open to it when you start and F&P can help with that process.

Also, there are places where online training with a heavy footprint (videos, downloads, etc.) can discourage users from getting through it. Not everyone has broadband. Not even in NY state. There are places in Broome County, Tioga County, Lewis County, Herkimer County where connection is as slow as dial-up...and sometimes IS dial-up.

Not poo-pooing your idea; just giving you some food for thought as you construct it because overall I think it has a lot of merit. I kind of wish NESA would take it on as a national program responsibility for consistency's sake.
Title: Re: ES eLearning or CBT
Post by: capip1998 on December 03, 2016, 05:27:08 PM
I still don't understand why we haven't yet developed online training modules for all our classroom-based knowledge tasks. Its ridiculous that this wasn't done 10 years ago.  Allowing folks to knock those out online and focus their in-person training time on those skills that need to be learned would radically speed up the process -- especially since we have no real system of regularly schedule classroom training for ES.

This is exactly what I'm looking at. There is even free software available to make them.


Mixed feelings about this. I agree our training needs to be a.) more widely available, b.) much, much higher quality, c.) current, d.) consistent, and e.) professional. Right now it's ad hoc and a mixed bag.

I also think, however, that often CBT leaves people thinking they know more but actually knowing less. There's a lot of pencil-whipping that's possible when you just work through the check boxes. I also think CBT does a very BAD job of imparting culture, and that's part of what we want to do with ES training. Instill the "response mentality," and the professionalism. The hands-on-portion could and should do that, but you need to be open to it when you start and F&P can help with that process.

Also, there are places where online training with a heavy footprint (videos, downloads, etc.) can discourage users from getting through it. Not everyone has broadband. Not even in NY state. There are places in Broome County, Tioga County, Lewis County, Herkimer County where connection is as slow as dial-up...and sometimes IS dial-up.

Not poo-pooing your idea; just giving you some food for thought as you construct it because overall I think it has a lot of merit. I kind of wish NESA would take it on as a national program responsibility for consistency's sake.

From what I can tell, this hasn't been done which is what I'm trying to determine. I agree with consistency which is why this will be at least a wing program if not region.


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Title: Re: ES eLearning or CBT
Post by: RiverAux on December 03, 2016, 07:02:58 PM
I agree that elearning can have pitfalls, but lets not get too carried away with the difficulty of the material that we try to get ES folks to learn in the classroom. 

Heck, at the very least CAP could have produced standardized written quizes to cover a lot of this stuff that could be downloaded and used in classroom settings, but not even that has been done. 
Title: Re: ES eLearning or CBT
Post by: FlyNavy on December 05, 2016, 01:50:24 AM
I think that CBT training for ES, if created and executed properly, could be a great tool.
Title: Re: ES eLearning or CBT
Post by: arajca on December 05, 2016, 01:58:32 PM
I created and used a written test for many of the List, Describe, or Identify tasks on the GTM3 SQTR. The only restriction wing put on it was it had to be administered and graded by a GTM3 SET. Worked very well and saved a few hours of field time for field practice and testing. This was over the objections of a former group ESO who was of the mindset EVERYTHING on the GTM3 SQTR had to be evaluated in the field, there was no other way it could be done.

Title: Re: ES eLearning or CBT
Post by: Live2Learn on December 05, 2016, 02:13:43 PM
my experience with CAP produced online materials is decidedly mixed.  Some is ok, a very small number are 'good', and most are abysmal.  The norm for cap products is clunky to obscure.  Recall the online Intro to Safety that was mandatory for all a few years ago?  It was perhaps the most poorly executed online course I've ever seen. 

If any of us decides to do an online product that's great.  My hope is there's some solid beta testing before attempting a grand release.  The Intro to safety I mentioned was so bad that several cadets dropped out, and so did a few SM because of it.