As a newbie, I am some what confused ???. Back when I was in NJROTC, when dinosaurs roamed the Earth, we were taught to use clear language when calling Drill. We actually lost points, in competition and for promotion requirements, if we did not. Now, I am hearing much strange grunting and strange new words, like harch, huah. Once again I realize it has been many moons since I taught, and was taught Drill, but is this correct. It sounds, to me, like some people have watched "Full Metal Jacket" one time too many.
In short what is correct for Drill & Ceremony? ??? The Air Force Drill Manual says proper language.
Air Force drill also counts cadence as hup two three four, not left, right, left, right, and we don't sing the cadence, either ;) --although i have heard some pretty catchy ditty's coming from navy folks singing cadence as they march by, heh.
As you alluded, the correct answer is AFMAN 36-2203
http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/afman3622031_7A853B1DF6091.pdf (http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/afman3622031_7A853B1DF6091.pdf)
The voice characteristics (LPDISC is how I remember them) are spelled out in 2.3
Loudness
Projection
Distinctiness
Inflection
Snap
(2.4) Cadence
Things like 'harch' and 'harms' you fill find on Figure 2.2
**Imho the H is almost silent though, it's there because it's hard to do distinctness, inflection, and snap with syllables like M and R. But it's not garlic breath hhhhhhhhharch. More like a gutteral tight start to "arch".
But yeah, people (and cadets in particular) watch a lot of tv and movies, as well as mimicking what they saw at encampment (from a cadet who also watches a lot of tv and movies and mimicks what THEY saw at encampment) and so on... So some nonsense tends to spread over time.
The drill manual has clear instructions on how the commands are to be called.
Grunts and barks....are not proper drill commands. But they sneak in to the lexicon all the time.
Welcome to the never ending battle of real drill vs what cadets think is supposed to be real drill.
Quote from: CAPDCCMOM on May 14, 2015, 06:22:23 PM
huah
Hooah: slang "referring to or meaning anything and everything except no".
Or in my definition, "the sound of the brain slamming shut".
Your answer is found at: AFMAN 36-2203. PAGE 16, FIGURE 2.2
Also, remember the command is "FALL OUT" and not "FALL"....."OUT". The same with "AT EASE" and not "AT"......."EASE".
This is best left up to our NCO's...... >:D
Thanks for the replies. I understand why this was moved to Cadet topics, however, it is Senior Members that are calling Drill like this...Not Cadets.
For Cadets to learn properly, they must be taught properly.
The memories of thousands of push ups... In basic training (about 30 years ago to the week), we were taught to use plain English when giving drill commands. Anybody not using English (ie. grunting sounds) got dropped, after the third time the entire platoon was dropped.
There is an art to calling drill, it starts with a good command voice and ends with being understandable as you guide your platoon in drill (without crashing into anything).
Quote from: FW on May 14, 2015, 07:25:27 PM
This is best left up to our NCO's...... >:D
It's obvious that the officers can't do it. :o
Popcorn, Get Your POPCORN!!!!
I come from a proud line of NCO's. I have the up most respect for them, at all times. It is generally true, if you want something done correctly and efficiently, get an NCO. I have told my Cadets, they had better listen to our Unit NCO, because I sure do!
Quote from: lordmonar on May 14, 2015, 08:04:39 PM
Quote from: FW on May 14, 2015, 07:25:27 PM
This is best left up to our NCO's...... >:D
It's obvious that the officers can't do it. :o
I know a lot of NCOs who are terrible at drill. In fact, most Air Force NCOs don't do much drill at all other than the occasional formation.
Jimminy Jillikers....
Try this out....http://www.drillpad.net/ (http://www.drillpad.net/)
The "teaching drill" section is pretty good.
As mentioned, some things are...no good, others are...correct
Harch, Harms, Stehp, Hut, Toop, Threep, Fourp, Tench Hut, etc are actual AF drill "pronunciations".
Being a Marine, "hut two three four" would get you beat up :) There is nothing wrong with putting a little flare in your drill commands. However cadets in particular do need guidance. My drill instructors in boot camp were artists I tell you..... Artists. Listening to them call cadence a true religious experience.
Quote from: Flying Pig on May 14, 2015, 11:25:30 PM
Being a Marine, "hut two three four" would get you beat up :) There is nothing wrong with putting a little flare in your drill commands. However cadets in particular do need guidance. My drill instructors in boot camp were artists I tell you..... Artists. Listening to them call cadence a true religious experience.
+1
But this is CAP....and we need to take baby steps.
Quote from: Flying Pig on May 14, 2015, 11:25:30 PM
Being a Marine, "hut two three four" would get you beat up :) There is nothing wrong with putting a little flare in your drill commands. However cadets in particular do need guidance. My drill instructors in boot camp were artists I tell you..... Artists. Listening to them call cadence a true religious experience.
Remember how "boot cadence" sounded? I doubt any Marine could forget. It was like a drumbeat that made calling cadence unnecessary until a change in direction was needed. Hour after endless hour out on the sweltering parade deck were actually enjoyable. We moved as a machine. And yes, the "flare" that some DIs came up with could have made them contenders for a Grammy Award.
The key to teaching D&C successfully is to use the AFMAN and to have people competent in it doing the teaching. To many times D&C is taught the wrong way and no one has any clue how to really perform the movements because they were taught by so and so who was taught by so and so and you see where the pattern is.
In my last two units, it became SOP for teaching D&C that everything would come straight out of the AFMAN and nothing else. I spent my time in the first unit I was in as a SM correcting bad habits and revamping and correcting bad habits in my last unit.
I have seen open ranks, columns, to the rear and even count cadence count all performed wrong and upon digging the common answer that is how it has always been done.
Currently there is work that has to be done here that I am working on correcting the bad habits here with the cadets I have. I went as far while I was in Az to actually plan a full day of D&C with SMEs from all across the board to assist. The lesson plans were done a schedule set and notices sent out and it tanked from very little interest.
I challenged the D&C while I was a TO at encampment last year and gave my flight the reference for D&C for them to review and learn from.
Ultimately if you do not have a D&C SME who was instructed properly then it will tank and you have bad habits.
Quote from: coudano on May 14, 2015, 06:35:00 PM
But yeah, people (and cadets in particular) watch a lot of tv and movies, as well as mimicking what they saw at encampment (from a cadet who also watches a lot of tv and movies and mimicks what THEY saw at encampment) and so on... So some nonsense tends to spread over time.
Addressing this at 2015 VAWG Encampment through a renewed emphasis on AF 36-2203. Encampment should be one place where cadets see things done correctly, as one would expect at a schoolhouse.
Quote from: Tim Day on May 15, 2015, 01:31:51 PM
Addressing this at 2015 VAWG Encampment through a renewed emphasis on AF 36-2203. Encampment should be one place where cadets see things done correctly, as one would expect at a schoolhouse.
I have heard that excuse and seen that happen multiple times. It happened at Arizona's Encampment last year and when I addressed it to the Commandant for Cadets that the D&C was being done wrong from the basics up to the formations. The wonder cadet who had handpicked the cadet staff and they were partially picked for their knowledge of D&C didn't take kindly to being told he was wrong and to please cite the source for what he used to asses the D&C. When he was unable to provide the reference I shook my head looked back at the CoC and told him this is why we have D&C issues in this wing.
Bottom line use the AFMAN and have someone who is a SME in D&C oversee that aspect of the program.
Quote from: Tim Day on May 15, 2015, 01:31:51 PM
Addressing this at 2015 VAWG Encampment through a renewed emphasis on AF 36-2203. Encampment should be one place where cadets see things done correctly, as one would expect at a schoolhouse.
This. Oh my, 1000 times this!
Quote from: JacobAnn on May 15, 2015, 10:24:02 AM
Quote from: Flying Pig on May 14, 2015, 11:25:30 PM
Being a Marine, "hut two three four" would get you beat up :) There is nothing wrong with putting a little flare in your drill commands. However cadets in particular do need guidance. My drill instructors in boot camp were artists I tell you..... Artists. Listening to them call cadence a true religious experience.
Remember how "boot cadence" sounded? I doubt any Marine could forget. It was like a drumbeat that made calling cadence unnecessary until a change in direction was needed. Hour after endless hour out on the sweltering parade deck were actually enjoyable. We moved as a machine. And yes, the "flare" that some DIs came up with could have made them contenders for a Grammy Award.
Good night Chesty....... Wherever you are.
Quote from: Tim Day on May 15, 2015, 01:31:51 PM
Quote from: coudano on May 14, 2015, 06:35:00 PM
But yeah, people (and cadets in particular) watch a lot of tv and movies, as well as mimicking what they saw at encampment (from a cadet who also watches a lot of tv and movies and mimicks what THEY saw at encampment) and so on... So some nonsense tends to spread over time.
Addressing this at 2015 VAWG Encampment through a renewed emphasis on AF 36-2203. Encampment should be one place where cadets see things done correctly, as one would expect at a schoolhouse.
I'm sending one of my cadets to the VAWG encampment so this is very good news to hear.
Some helpful videos for instructing proper drill can be found at https://www.youtube.com/user/afrotcdet88/videos (https://www.youtube.com/user/afrotcdet88/videos)
Quote from: kwe1009 on May 15, 2015, 07:53:09 PM
Quote from: Tim Day on May 15, 2015, 01:31:51 PM
Quote from: coudano on May 14, 2015, 06:35:00 PM
But yeah, people (and cadets in particular) watch a lot of tv and movies, as well as mimicking what they saw at encampment (from a cadet who also watches a lot of tv and movies and mimicks what THEY saw at encampment) and so on... So some nonsense tends to spread over time.
Addressing this at 2015 VAWG Encampment through a renewed emphasis on AF 36-2203. Encampment should be one place where cadets see things done correctly, as one would expect at a schoolhouse.
I'm sending one of my cadets to the VAWG encampment so this is very good news to hear.
We've been doing this at the CAWG Encampment for years. Teaching to the reg is what's
supposed to happen.
Quote from: PHall on May 16, 2015, 12:52:14 AM
We've been doing this at the CAWG Encampment for years. Teaching to the reg is what's supposed to happen.
Really we must not have been in the same CA wing sending cadets to the same encampment. Half the bad habits I was fixing in my unit there was learned at encampment.
Quote from: abdsp51 on May 16, 2015, 04:11:39 AM
Quote from: PHall on May 16, 2015, 12:52:14 AM
We've been doing this at the CAWG Encampment for years. Teaching to the reg is what's supposed to happen.
Really we must not have been in the same CA wing sending cadets to the same encampment. Half the bad habits I was fixing in my unit there was learned at encampment.
Please enlighten me kind sir.
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