OK, I was exploring the regs and came across the Pre-Solo wings.
These are a new development since I was last in as a member and all I can say is....... You GOTTA be kidding me!
I wear them, sir. What's the big deal? It's simply a symbol and how it's interpreted is up to each individual. If they mean nothing, then that's fine.
I actually think it is a good idea - especially for cardets who are flying to show their progress. Getting a PP license can take some time, especially if you are waiting for a birthday.
Being a ground team guy has given me a bad attitude about flying in private aircraft..Give me big metal birds wih lots of engines! Since I am afraid to fly tiny planes, maybe they could make some "Chicken Wings" for us Cessnaphobes?
Capt. Lord
Quote from: Flying Pig on April 17, 2007, 09:16:56 PM
OK, I was exploring the regs and came across the Pre-Solo wings.
These are a new development since I was last in as a member and all I can say is....... You GOTTA be kidding me!
It's a whole different world.....folks get parties for "graduating" out of Jr. High School into High School these days (wouldn't have believed it until I got an invitation to attend a lad's.)
Its not a big deal at all. Thats the point. They already have solo wings. Now we need Pre solo wings? How about wings for passing your written exam then?
Quote from: Flying Pig on April 18, 2007, 12:19:13 AM
Its not a big deal at all. Thats the point. They already have solo wings. Now we need Pre solo wings? How about wings for passing your written exam then?
Okay, if you insist. ;D
Quote from: Flying Pig on April 18, 2007, 12:19:13 AM
Its not a big deal at all. Thats the point. They already have solo wings. Now we need Pre solo wings? How about wings for passing your written exam then?
Those are the "Winged Pencil" but Vanguard doesn't have a photo available yet. ::)
Someone delete this thread before Tedda sees it and designs the chicken wings
I believe the Pre-Solo wings were developed because there is a regulation saying that first timers at a flight encampment cannot solo. So, you had to give the cadets something after they've spent $850 and were told they couldn't solo... but they could conduct a flight from takeoff to landing with the instructor in the plane.
Personally, I think they are ridiculous. People say that just because they passed a pre-solo you could solo, but that's not correct. Flying without your instructor is completely different than flying with your instructor not doing anything... at least they could do something if something bad happened.
Quote from: Cmdbuddy on April 18, 2007, 01:49:50 AM
I believe the Pre-Solo wings were developed because there is a regulation saying that first timers at a flight encampment cannot solo. So, you had to give the cadets something after they've spent $850 and were told they couldn't solo... but they could conduct a flight from takeoff to landing with the instructor in the plane.
Or rather they met all the 'solo' requirements except for age...
They meet all the requirements.....except for the requirements. I dont know. As a former cadet who wore solo wings myself, it seems a little much. Oh well. It seems now that there has to be a badge, pin or medal for everything and every activity.
Quote from: Flying Pig on April 18, 2007, 03:10:54 AM
They meet all the requirements.....except for the requirements. I dont know. As a former cadet who wore solo wings myself, it seems a little much. Oh well. It seems now that there has to be a badge, pin or medal for everything and every activity.
Welcome to the U.S. Boy Scouts of Air Patrol. ::)
Not sure why this bothers anyone. I can wear my uniform on 4 or 5 different days and never wear the same badge twice. Why is it even a big deal, if someone wants to buy and wear it, it seems like it is esprit. Should I feel the same way about the effort I went through to receive mine comparred to someone who earns a GT badge over two weekends?
the pre-solo wings where developed in order to be more politically correct. When the cadets go to the flight academy and they couldn't earn the right to solo or the weather was bad or for whatever the reason may be, CAP didn't want them feeling left out or feeling like they weren't good enough to solo. So CAP came out with a pair of pre-solo wings that are almost identical to solo wings, you can't tell the difference. it's supposed to make them feel good about themselves.
I think it's ridicules, we didn't need that back when i was a cadet, back then solo wings actually meant something. If they are going to keep pre-solo wings then they need to be very distinctive from solo wings, just as I believe observer wings need to be distinctive from Pilot wings.
Quote from: DrJbdm on April 19, 2007, 01:02:26 AM
I think it's ridicules, we didn't need that back when i was a cadet, back then solo wings actually meant something. If they are going to keep pre-solo wings then they need to be very distinctive from solo wings, just as I believe observer wings need to be distinctive from Pilot wings.
Maybe what CAP could do is this:
Award the (now) solo wings to those who have "pre-soloed", and add a star above the solo wings for those who have soloed.
This is slightly similar to what AFROTC does. AFROTC awards their solo wings to cadets who have either soloed, earned a pilot slot, or both. And those cadets who have a pilot slot and earned their wings prior to being categorized as a pilot get a star above their wings.
If it makes it any better for everyone who opposes the wings, there's no version of the pre-solo wings for the BDU or flight suit.
Quote from: Flying Pig on April 17, 2007, 09:16:56 PM
...Pre-Solo wings... You GOTTA be kidding me!
I agree 100%! They should be axed without further discussion. To be honest, I'm not even that hip on the idea of "solo wings" but at least there's a bit of an argument to be made there. As was stated earlier, "pre-solo" wings are a meaningless, feel good "award" that marginalizes true accomplishment.
Quote from: 12211985 on April 19, 2007, 01:14:35 AM
Quote from: DrJbdm on April 19, 2007, 01:02:26 AM
I think it's ridicules, we didn't need that back when i was a cadet, back then solo wings actually meant something. If they are going to keep pre-solo wings then they need to be very distinctive from solo wings, just as I believe observer wings need to be distinctive from Pilot wings.
Maybe what CAP could do is this:
Award the (now) solo wings to those who have "pre-soloed", and add a star above the solo wings for those who have soloed.
This is slightly similar to what AFROTC does. AFROTC awards their solo wings to cadets who have either soloed, earned a pilot slot, or both. And those cadets who have a pilot slot and earned their wings prior to being categorized as a pilot get a star above their wings.
Or we could just not recognize anything below solo. That's my vote
Personally, I wish they had the I applied for solo encampment but didn't get selected badge. Hey, CAP owes me something for my intentions.
I will eventually solo, can I have the wings now?
Get rid of pre solo, what was the real accomplishment anyway? Anyone who has the $$ can make it that far!
When I was in high school, the AFJROTC offered the Private Pilot Ground School to 12th grade Cadets. Upon completion of the ground school, pre-solo wings were awarded.
In that environment it worked, mainly because the school could not provide anything beyond the Ground School, but did recognize those Cadets who did go on to take instruction and solo.
Get rid of the pre-solo or keep it, but if we're going to keep it, lets award it as recognition for passing the FAA Ground School exam.
Cadets need bling too ;D
Sure, why not. Just takes a little more money to solo, and just a little more for a license, and a little more to own to join a club, and a little more to own your a plane. Heck I think you should be given a plane following this logic.
There are a couple of things I know for a fact. I have never seen so much Badge envy, and if you misspal a word your thought is dismissed.
Quote from: Rangersigo on April 19, 2007, 06:13:48 PM
and if you misspal a word your thought is dismissed.
I'm sorry, did you say something? :P
I dont think there is ANY shortage of bling in CAP. Senior or Cadet!
Why wear the pre-solo badge when you can wear the No-Image badge? My favorite (just ordered 2):
(http://www.civilairpatrolstore.com/store/images/nophoto.jpg)
Hate to tell you, but the No Image Available insignia are backordered
Quote from: BillB on April 19, 2007, 09:48:04 PM
Hate to tell you, but the No Image Available insignia are backordered
Are you serious?! Come on...this is the
third time that the things I wanted are backordered!
It's nice that they don't notify people of backordered items, though. I've seen that complaint a lot.
Quote from: BillB on April 19, 2007, 09:48:04 PM
Hate to tell you, but the No Image Available insignia are backordered
(http://www.tedda.net/IMGS/peeps/noimg.gif) Sux to be you then... I got mine.
Quote from: tedda on April 19, 2007, 10:30:17 PM
Quote from: BillB on April 19, 2007, 09:48:04 PM
Hate to tell you, but the No Image Available insignia are backordered
(http://www.tedda.net/IMGS/peeps/noimg.gif) Sux to be you then... I got mine.
IDEA! We should get generic insignia, branch tapes, name tapes, etc. that say "BACKORDERED" for those times when Vanguard is out. :-*
Quote from: JC004 on April 19, 2007, 10:52:06 PM
IDEA! We should get generic insignia, branch tapes, name tapes, etc. that say "BACKORDERED" for those times when Vanguard is out. :-*
Nothing like having an alibi.... :D
This could get fun
(http://nametape.jpg)
Quote from: CadetProgramGuy on April 19, 2007, 11:35:34 PM
This could get fun
(http://nametape.jpg)
Outstanding! I am getting a couple dozen. ::opens a new tab:: "thehock.com"...
Quote from: Psicorp on April 19, 2007, 06:04:35 PM
When I was in high school, the AFJROTC offered the Private Pilot Ground School to 12th grade Cadets. Upon completion of the ground school, pre-solo wings were awarded.
In that environment it worked, mainly because the school could not provide anything beyond the Ground School, but did recognize those Cadets who did go on to take instruction and solo.
Get rid of the pre-solo or keep it, but if we're going to keep it, lets award it as recognition for passing the FAA Ground School exam.
Cadets need bling too ;D
I agree. Right now, it's too easy to earn the CAP pre-solo wings. I think CAP should require FAA ground school for cadets who wish to rate them. Why should AFJROTC have the same wings and different requirements? I think both CAP and AFJROTC should have the same awarding criteria for the pre-solo wings. Besides, FAA ground school is fairly affordable (and easy). Heck, in my flight training, the ground school consisted of a book accompanied with a bunch of CD's.
Does anyone know what the AFJROTC pre-solo wings look like?
Quote from: CAPR 60-1
Pre-Solo Qualification Flight. A flight, performed at a CAP wing level or higher flight encampment/academy, during which the CAP student pilot demonstrates, to an onboard CAP certificated flight instructor (CFI), that he/she has the ability to fly the aircraft without assistance from the onboard CAP CFI. This flight does not require an FAA endorsement and does not fulfill FAA requirements for solo flight, however the prerequisite for a pre-solo qualification is completion of all requirements in the appropriate portion of FAR 61.87.
Is the Flight Academy's cirriculum based around the FAA requirements for solo flight? Don't they go through ground school and fly with a CFI? Do any wings hold 'flight academies?'
So if that is the case, wouldn't all CAP 'pre-solo' cadets have gone through a course that meets FAA requirments? So wouldn't all the cadets then 'not on purpose' be required to go through a course that fulfills FAA requirements for solo flight sans the 'solo' flight to earn the 'wings'?