To: National Headquarters, we the undersigned have agreed that buying from Vanguard Industires has caused too many problems for the Membership of the Civil Air Patrol, United States Air Force Auxiliary, and therefore, request that action be taken to ensure that the issues are resolved in a timely manner. The reasons are as noted:
1) Poor Customer Service
2) Poor Quality Web Site
2a) Few pictures
2b) Difficult to navigate
2c) Poor picture Quality
3) Exorbitant Uniform Prices
4) Excessive Shipping Charges
5) Lack of understanding of CAP rules for Uniform Wear
6) Slow Service Time
7) Numerous & Erroneous Order Fulfillment
Aaron Seng, 2d Lt
Yeah, good luck with that. Let us know how you do.
I'm wanting people to reply, then to send a typed copy in.
Quote from: RogueLeader on April 17, 2007, 08:09:13 PM
I'm wanting people to reply, then to send a typed copy in.
Make sure to hit the spell check button before you send it - being able to actually spell the name of your own organization will really help your credibility.
What exactly is a "Sate"?
Quote from: Eclipse on April 17, 2007, 08:12:34 PM
Quote from: RogueLeader on April 17, 2007, 08:09:13 PM
I'm wanting people to reply, then to send a typed copy in.
Make sure to hit the spell check button before you send it - being able to actually spell the name of your own organization will really help your credibility.
What exactly is a "Sate"?
Computer thought a better match fit, better now.
Still not sure what a "Sate" is...
Quote from: RogueLeader on April 17, 2007, 08:00:15 PM
To: National Headquarters, we the undersigned have agreed that buying from Vanguard Industires has caused too many problems for the Membership of the Civil Air Patrol, United States Air Force Auxiliary, and therefore, request that another suitable Supplier be found in the near future. The reasons are as noted:
1) Poor Customer Service
2) Poor Quality Web Site
2a) Few pictures
2b) Difficult to navigate
2c) Poor picture Quality
3) Exorbitant Uniform Prices
4) Excessive Shipping Charges
5) Lack of understanding of CAP rules for Uniform Wear
6) Slow Service Time
7) Numerous & Erroneous Order Fulfillment
Aaron Seng, 2d Lt
Instead of a petition to change suppliers, you might have more luck with national taking action if you made it a petition of the issues and concerns of the membership related to Vanguard asking NHQ to take action to ensure that Vanguard improves the problems and provides the services at the level they have committed to NHQ in the agreement.
I think this has a much greater possibility of success than suggesting replacing them.
Id agree with Lt Col White. Working with Vanguard on improvements will get you farther than trying to renegotiate contracts and suppliers.
Please not in change of Petition.
2nd Lt Seng
Quote from: RogueLeader on April 17, 2007, 08:00:15 PM
To: National Headquarters, we the undersigned have agreed that buying from Vanguard Industries has caused too many problems for the Membership of the Civil Air Patrol, United States Air Force Auxiliary, and therefore, request that action be taken to ensure that the issues are resolved in a timely manner. The reasons are as noted:
1) Poor Customer Service
I have never had bad customer service with Vanguard.
Quote2) Poor Quality Web Site
2a) Few pictures
2b) Difficult to navigate
2c) Poor picture Quality
You forgot that there are a lot of things not listed on the web site.
Quote3) Exorbitant Uniform Prices
If you can find an alternate vendor you are free to go to them.
Quote4) Excessive Shipping Charges
They are excessive if you are only buying things one at a time....remember that Vanguard is a whole-seller. We do not constitute a large enough volume of sales for them to set up a full scale shipping department. The $7 you pay is the same whether you buy 1 item or 20 items...the secret to lowering the costs is to team up with your squadron mates and share the costs.
Quote5) Lack of understanding of CAP rules for Uniform Wear
Since when is it a suppliers job to know how you are supposed to wear a uniform? That is your job and can be found in CAPM 39-1
Quote6) Slow Service Time
Not in my experience.
Quote7) Numerous & Erroneous Order Fulfillment
Again not in my experience.
The bottom line is....what is the alternative? We all hated CAPMART when CAP was the retail source, some complained about The Hock Shop.
If you have problems with Vanguard...the place to complain is to Vanguard not NHQ. They can't do anything except forward your letter to them until the contract is up for bid again. But seeing as how there are almost no other suppliers of specialty military insignia I don't see anything changing.
Quote from: lordmonar on April 17, 2007, 11:18:38 PM
Quote from: RogueLeader on April 17, 2007, 08:00:15 PM
To: National Headquarters, we the undersigned have agreed that buying from Vanguard Industries has caused too many problems for the Membership of the Civil Air Patrol, United States Air Force Auxiliary, and therefore, request that action be taken to ensure that the issues are resolved in a timely manner. The reasons are as noted:
1) Poor Customer Service
I have never had bad customer service with Vanguard.
Quote2) Poor Quality Web Site
2a) Few pictures
2b) Difficult to navigate
2c) Poor picture Quality
You forgot that there are a lot of things not listed on the web site.
Quote3) Exorbitant Uniform Prices
If you can find an alternate vendor you are free to go to them.
Quote4) Excessive Shipping Charges
They are excessive if you are only buying things one at a time....remember that Vanguard is a whole-seller. We do not constitute a large enough volume of sales for them to set up a full scale shipping department. The $7 you pay is the same whether you buy 1 item or 20 items...the secret to lowering the costs is to team up with your squadron mates and share the costs.
Quote5) Lack of understanding of CAP rules for Uniform Wear
Since when is it a suppliers job to know how you are supposed to wear a uniform? That is your job and can be found in CAPM 39-1
Quote6) Slow Service Time
Not in my experience.
Quote7) Numerous & Erroneous Order Fulfillment
Again not in my experience.
The bottom line is....what is the alternative? We all hated CAPMART when CAP was the retail source, some complained about The Hock Shop.
If you have problems with Vanguard...the place to complain is to Vanguard not NHQ. They can't do anything except forward your letter to them until the contract is up for bid again. But seeing as how there are almost no other suppliers of specialty military insignia I don't see anything changing.
You are missing the point here. You have a habit of not reading thoroughly before you comment.
Re-read the petition. It isn't to replace Vanguard. It is to emphasize the problems that members are having with the service provided by Vanguard and asking for NHQ to address these issues on everyone's behalf.
If you have read ANY of the posts related to Vanguard, you will see that the members HAVE tried to address the issues directly to Vanguard and not gotten anywhere. This is the reason that Rogue is proposing this.
Clearly, NHQ has more clout with Vanguard than the individual member.
Neither you or I can tell Vanguard "you aren't living up to the level of service you committed to provide in your contract" but NHQ certainly can.
Like you, I have not experienced any problems with Vanguard. However, many others on here clearly have as they have indicated.
I have gotten good service, but agree with almost all the points raised about the web site and shipping prices.
By the way Vanguard is not a wholesaler. They are in the business of selling to individual CAP members (and to others through their other sites).
Quote from: lordmonar on April 17, 2007, 11:18:38 PM
Quote5) Lack of understanding of CAP rules for Uniform Wear
Since when is it a suppliers job to know how you are supposed to wear a uniform? That is your job and can be found in CAPM 39-1
Pat, it
is their job to either properly understand CAPM 39-1 or to stop harassaing paying customers over if what they're ordering is authorized in CAPM 39-1 or not. The problem is that Vanguard has told customers "No, I can't make that, it's against CAP uniform regulations" or "I can't sell you that, it's not authorized" when in fact, it's perfectly legit. (I believe Kirt mentioned this on another thread)
But oddly enough, they'll happily sell you three pairs of CAP Maj Gen epaulet sleeves and a National Executive Committee badge... :P
I'm wondering what's going to happen when I (try to) order the command ribbon and two gold stars on behalf of my father. He wants me to lump it in with some stuff that I've still got to order when I work up the courage, because it isn't worth $7 on its own. I wonder if they'll tell me that I can't have the gold stars because I wasn't a National Commander?
Geez, I miss S. Mitchell.. :'(
Anybody willing to sign?
Personally, I think that the 'petition' idea is a waste of time. This is a 'for profit' company, and if you want change, you as the customer have to complain.
If everyone that truly has a poor experience with them tells them, or asks to speak to a manager, they will change their 'habits.'
It is a matter of going through the proper channels.
Here is a start:
cap@vanguardmil.com
or
1-800-221-1264
Someone can not fix problems they are not made aware of. The managements vision of what is happening may vary greatly from the customers end simply because the 'face' people aren't doing what they should.
I have never had a poor experience with Vanguard, and those who I have met that have, it is usually due to them ordering something incorrectly. Fill out a comment card, and let them know why you are dissapointed in their service.
Quote from: jimmydeanno on April 18, 2007, 02:29:19 PM
Personally, I think that the 'petition' idea is a waste of time. This is a 'for profit' company, and if you want change, you as the customer have to complain.
If everyone that truly has a poor experience with them tells them, or asks to speak to a manager, they will change their 'habits.'
It is a matter of going through the proper channels.
Here is a start:
cap@vanguardmil.com
or
1-800-221-1264
Someone can not fix problems they are not made aware of. The managements vision of what is happening may vary greatly from the customers end simply because the 'face' people aren't doing what they should.
I have never had a poor experience with Vanguard, and those who I have met that have, it is usually due to them ordering something incorrectly. Fill out a comment card, and let them know why you are dissapointed in their service.
NHQ is the customer who has the power to hold them to the contract based on dissatisfied membership.
Quote from: LTC_Gadget on April 18, 2007, 03:45:18 AM
I'm wondering what's going to happen when I (try to) order the command ribbon and two gold stars on behalf of my father. He wants me to lump it in with some stuff that I've still got to order when I work up the courage, because it isn't worth $7 on its own. I wonder if they'll tell me that I can't have the gold stars because I wasn't a National Commander?
Geez, I miss S. Mitchell.. :'(
They shouldn't say anything to you about the ribbon/star order for your father. After all, they sold
me a brigadier general's epaulet set, and I'm supposed to have a major general's on back-order. (I made a display.) And I've been retired 10 years.
Jack
I guess we got a little sidetracked... the original topic is not necessarily Vanguard itself, since there is already a discussion (http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=1906.msg32386#new) about that going on. Let's try to keep this thread on topic about the aforementioned petition.
Otherwise we'll end up with two dozen threads about Vanguard problems. Thanks!
Numerous order fulfillments? :o That sounds like a good thing. ;D
Perhaps "many erroneously filled orders" would be better?
Interesting enough, CAP sent me a survey to fill out on my recent Vaguard order experience. I told them the truth. Anyone else get one?
I'm In!
SSgt James Savage
NER-ME-058
Quote from: Dragoon on April 19, 2007, 01:35:49 PM
Interesting enough, CAP sent me a survey to fill out on my recent Vaguard order experience. I told them the truth. Anyone else get one?
I got one, I'm on page two of comments and not finished yet.
(http://www.civilairpatrolstore.com/store/images/nophoto.jpg)
I got this as a token gift just for sending it in.
Quote from: tedda on April 19, 2007, 09:59:12 PM
I got this as a token gift just for sending it in.
LMAO. :D That is great. MASTER-rated, no less!
Quote from: JC004 on April 19, 2007, 10:02:36 PM
Quote from: tedda on April 19, 2007, 09:59:12 PM
I got this as a token gift just for sending it in.
LMAO. :D That is great. MASTER-rated, no less!
they recognize my mad skillz
/me
really didn't get a survey with his most recent order received Monday, ...for the record
Quote from: tedda on April 19, 2007, 10:27:47 PM
Quote from: JC004 on April 19, 2007, 10:02:36 PM
Quote from: tedda on April 19, 2007, 09:59:12 PM
I got this as a token gift just for sending it in.
LMAO. :D That is great. MASTER-rated, no less!
they recognize my mad skillz
/me really didn't get a survey with his most recent order received Monday, ...for the record
The survey came from 'bama, actually...
Quote from: tedda on April 19, 2007, 09:59:12 PM
I got this as a token gift just for sending it in.
That is AWESOME!!!!!!!!
All Hail Moff Tedda!!!!!!1