With the shutdown in effect and no light at the end of the tunnel, how is your unit handling new members? How much are you going to let them participate? Are you going to allow meetings only? How about other squadron activities? With the days off for national, how long to you think it will take them to catch up? They are already overloaded as it is.
There's light? I see they won't block the raising of the debt ceiling, but not much movement on the shutdown.
Regardless, it's not just NHQ, it'll also be the FBI, which will have a backlog on their checks.
Quote from: Eclipse on October 04, 2013, 01:05:31 PM
There's light? I see they won't block the raising of the debt ceiling, but not much movement on the shutdown.
Regardless, it's not just NHQ, it'll also be the FBI, which will have a backlog on their checks.
So long as the shutdown continues, the debt ceiling will be pushed off, as the government is supposedly spending less money now.
The FIB FBI is still working, ceizing websites.
Quote from: usafaux2004 on October 04, 2013, 01:59:11 PM
The FIB FBI is still working, ceizing websites.
My fiancée is FBI so I have some true insight on this and just not crappy media and rumors. Yes the FBI is working. They are only allowed to work on cases affecting preserving life and property. So no to outside background checks like CAP. All the training they do for local and state police has been stopped. This includes the National Academy which is a huge deal. They had a class report Monday. They sat around til today hoping to be able to start and were sent home today. That's 250 executive level law enforcements officers from around the world. Their instructors were furloughed. Oh and guess what. My fiancée gets to report to work everyday and put a code in her payroll to insure she doesn't get paid. The director says he will do everything to insure they get back pay but can not guarantee anything.
Well, Silk Road qualifies under those terms. I hope she does get back pay. As do the rest of the workers.
Quote from: usafaux2004 on October 04, 2013, 01:59:11 PM
The FIB FBI is still working, ceizing seizing websites.
FTFY.
We have a non member who wants to participate in our FTX this next weekend. Is that allowed by regs? I was thinking not, but I can't seem to find it again!!! Help, please! LOL The young man wants to join but has not gotten his app turned in yet.
Quote from: DMinick on October 04, 2013, 09:04:16 PM
We have a non member who wants to participate in our FTX this next weekend. Is that allowed by regs? I was thinking not, but I can't seem to find it again!!! Help, please! LOL The young man wants to join but has not gotten his app turned in yet.
No.
We are a >very< exclusive club in that you actually have to join to participate.
New members have a very narrow,
highly supervised lane for participation, but even for that level their membership application must
be formally accepted by a unit CC, and they can't do a whole lot until Level I is complete.
Quote from: usafaux2004 on October 04, 2013, 02:10:41 PM
Well, Silk Road qualifies under those terms. I hope she does get back pay. As do the rest of the workers.
Why should they get back pay? They get paid for doing a job. If they are not doing their job, they don't get paid. Simple as that. I have been laid off a couple of times in my life and when I was recalled, I did not get back pay and I did not expect to.
Quote from: Eclipse on October 04, 2013, 09:24:04 PM
Quote from: DMinick on October 04, 2013, 09:04:16 PM
New members have a very narrow, highly supervised lane for participation, but even for that level their membership application must
be formally accepted by a unit CC, and they can't do a whole lot until Level I is complete.
Does it make a difference if the person is a cadet or not? And is there a reg on that?
Because when they show up to work and do not get paid for that day they waste their time.
Remember? They are told "You have to show up, but we are not paying you."
So they are made to spend gas on parking, child care, transportation, etc. when they could be looking for other options on wages. I would support their not getting back pay if they were told "stay home."
Flyer
Actually they can't look elsewhere for wages. at least for the FBI. They must request permission for outside employment. The message they received the other day said no new requests would be approved.
People who are laid off are no longer employees. They sever relations with the company. When they return to the company, they are rehired, and go through almost everything new hires go through.
The folks who have been furloughed remain employees, and do not have to go through a rehire process to return to work.
Quote
My fiancée gets to report to work everyday and put a code in her payroll to insure she doesn't get paid. The director says he will do everything to insure they get back pay but can not guarantee anything.
A reminder.
The issue above is what I addressed.
David asked "Why should they get back pay?"
If your wife has to show up but not be paid to show up, she has lost money on fuel, parking, etc. and other "stuff." She deserves back pay, no?
And there are other Federal employees that could make better use of their time showing up at work and not get paid.
Flyer
If they're not being paid, they're not supposed to be working.
Quote from: DMinick on October 05, 2013, 01:06:51 AM
Does it make a difference if the person is a cadet or not? And is there a reg on that?
No. If anything, having cadet-age juveniles around who are not members is probably worse.
Quote from: MSG Mac on October 05, 2013, 02:46:02 AM
If they're not being paid, they're not supposed to be working.
Unless they're considered "essential personnel" which gives them the great benefit of being required to work without being paid for it.
There are many personnel in the "essential" category. For instance, school custodians.
When a blizzard threatens a city, when a storm threatens a city, school custodians are required to work while teachers are released.
Why?
Sidewalks have to be cleared of snow.
Heating systems must still be run, or the pipes will freeze and be damaged by the cold. When the blizzard is over, frozen pipes will leak. Windows break during storms.
If there is no contract or the public employer and that employee class is undergoing a contract negotiation, the public employer can say "you are an essential employee and I can require you to show up to work and I will pay you at the rate I say."
That will not happen in the private sector. That is what the private sector does not know, care, or understand about public employees. That is why the public unions make so much noise during contract negotiations.
Flyer
Quote from: MSG Mac on October 05, 2013, 02:46:02 AM
If they're not being paid, they're not supposed to be working.
The only people being paid is the military. The rest of the fed employees are working free for the time being. Those Capitol Police everyone saw on national tv the other day are in the same position. Working for free and putting their lives on the line for the people holding up their checks.
Quote from: stillamarine on October 04, 2013, 02:04:31 PMThis includes the National Academy which is a huge deal. They had a class report Monday. They sat around til today hoping to be able to start and were sent home today. That's 250 executive level law enforcements officers from around the world. Their instructors were furloughed.
When I was a young cop I thought the NA would really create a better breed of Chief/Sheriff. Now after 30+ years, it is something to put on your resume. If you were a 'good ole boy' and/or had issues before NA, you had the same issues afterwards. JMHO YMMV 8)
Quote from: Private Investigator on October 05, 2013, 03:04:57 PM
Quote from: stillamarine on October 04, 2013, 02:04:31 PMThis includes the National Academy which is a huge deal. They had a class report Monday. They sat around til today hoping to be able to start and were sent home today. That's 250 executive level law enforcements officers from around the world. Their instructors were furloughed.
When I was a young cop I thought the NA would really create a better breed of Chief/Sheriff. Now after 30+ years, it is something to put on your resume. If you were a 'good ole boy' and/or had issues before NA, you had the same issues afterwards. JMHO YMMV 8)
Oh that's the truth. But if you have aspirations to be a chief you gotta have it.
The latest from DFAS (http://www.dfas.mil/pressroom/govtshutdown.html).
The reason federal employees can't work during a shut down is because of an 1870 law call the "Anti Deficiency Act"/
http://www.gao.gov/legal/lawresources/antideficiency.html (http://www.gao.gov/legal/lawresources/antideficiency.html)
http://www.nbcnews.com/business/143-year-old-law-has-lawmakers-treading-gingerly-during-shutdown-8C11319714 (http://www.nbcnews.com/business/143-year-old-law-has-lawmakers-treading-gingerly-during-shutdown-8C11319714)
Quote from: stillamarine on October 05, 2013, 01:40:26 PM
Quote from: MSG Mac on October 05, 2013, 02:46:02 AM
If they're not being paid, they're not supposed to be working.
The only people being paid is the military. The rest of the fed employees are working free for the time being. Those Capitol Police everyone saw on national tv the other day are in the same position. Working for free and putting their lives on the line for the people holding up their checks.
Not a 100% true.
I was suppose to have my Army Reserve Drill this weekend. Like most Reservist and Guardsmen, first weekend of the month unless a Holiday weekend.
Drill was cancelled. So not all the Military is being paid.
AD is.
Quote from: SarDragon on October 05, 2013, 01:36:25 AM
People who are laid off are no longer employees. They sever relations with the company. When they return to the company, they are rehired, and go through almost everything new hires go through.
The folks who have been furloughed remain employees, and do not have to go through a rehire process to return to work.
Laid off is equivalent to being furloughed, not fired. If you are terminated or resign, relations are severed. If you are laid-off or furloughed, you do not sever relations. When I was laid off and later recalled, I did not have to go through any of the new hire processes.
Quote from: usafaux2004 on October 05, 2013, 08:42:37 PM
AD is.
Check out my link.
Bottom line - authorization is in place, implementation is not.
Quote from: David Vandenbroeck on October 05, 2013, 08:44:37 PM
Quote from: SarDragon on October 05, 2013, 01:36:25 AM
People who are laid off are no longer employees. They sever relations with the company. When they return to the company, they are rehired, and go through almost everything new hires go through.
The folks who have been furloughed remain employees, and do not have to go through a rehire process to return to work.
Laid off is equivalent to being furloughed, not fired. If you are terminated or resign, relations are severed. If you are laid-off or furloughed, you do not sever relations. When I was laid off and later recalled, I did not have to go through any of the new hire processes.
Well, that's not how it worked for me. I did keep all my longevity at each rehire, but my 401k was shut off, and, depending on the period of layoff, I had to repeat drug screening, and one time had to renew my security clearance screening. I worked for a gov't. contractor.
Quote from: usafaux2004 on October 05, 2013, 08:42:37 PM
AD is.
Correct, but not all, which was the point of the post.
Also, a lot of Miltechs were sent home and some AGRs as well. It's having a huge impact on the Reserves and Guard which is effecting readiness.
After all, we're an "Operational Reserve" now... aren't we? ;)
Gotta love how POTUS says yes pay the Mil but DFAs says no.
House votes to give back pay to Federal workers after shutdown ends:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303722604579117282938242994.html (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303722604579117282938242994.html)
"WASHINGTON—The House voted Saturday to provide back pay to furloughed federal workers once the partial government shutdown ends, the latest in a rapid-fire series of spending measures designed to minimize the effects of the closure.
The vote was 407-0. The White House has come out in support of guaranteeing retroactive pay, one of the few moments of agreement between the parties in the crisis.
The Senate doesn't yet have the agreement needed to approve the measure this weekend, and the timing of any final passage remained unclear."
Quote from: jimmydeanno on October 05, 2013, 03:45:12 AM
Quote from: MSG Mac on October 05, 2013, 02:46:02 AM
If they're not being paid, they're not supposed to be working.
Unless they're considered "essential personnel" which gives them the great benefit of being required to work without being paid for it.
It's not essential, it's "excepted" and "non-excepted". Non-excepted federal personnel are furloughed - no work, no pay. Excepted personnel (I am one) are working, but will not get paid until either a budget (right!) or a continuing resolution is signed. It's not "come to work, but you're not getting paid", it's "come to work and we'll pay you later".
Excruciating detail available here: http://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/furlough-guidance/#url=Shutdown-Furlough (http://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/furlough-guidance/#url=Shutdown-Furlough)
Well, if they have decided to pay them then put them back to work. This really shows how stupid our government is.
^ I concur ::)
Quote from: stillamarine on October 05, 2013, 04:05:57 PM
Quote from: Private Investigator on October 05, 2013, 03:04:57 PM
Quote from: stillamarine on October 04, 2013, 02:04:31 PMThis includes the National Academy which is a huge deal. They had a class report Monday. They sat around til today hoping to be able to start and were sent home today. That's 250 executive level law enforcements officers from around the world. Their instructors were furloughed.
When I was a young cop I thought the NA would really create a better breed of Chief/Sheriff. Now after 30+ years, it is something to put on your resume. If you were a 'good ole boy' and/or had issues before NA, you had the same issues afterwards. JMHO YMMV 8)
Oh that's the truth. But if you have aspirations to be a chief you gotta have it.
Roger that, I got applications out in the smaller places, Mayberry and Petticoat Junction. 8)
The whole thing is just a political sham & shame.
The debt ceiling, defunding legal programs, blah, blah, blah. All just ploys to keep pushing off the fixes, avoid uncomfortable
conversations, and stay in office.
Your pet project is FW&A, mine is critical to my district the country. Rinse, repeat.
Meanwhile, real people with little recourse are hurt along the way, and our standing in the world community is negatively affected.
Quote from: flyer333555 on October 05, 2013, 04:09:43 AM
That will not happen in the private sector. That is what the private sector does not know, care, or understand about public employees. That is why the public unions make so much noise during contract negotiations.
Not necessarily. Both my wife and I have it explicitly stated in our (non-government) job descriptions that we're "essential employees" and we're expected to report to work during area or weather-related emergencies unless our bosses tell us specifically to stay home.
Things brings up the question of updating our membership processing system. Seems redundant that a Unit Commander approves, verifies and signs a new Cadets application (essentially completing all application requirements), but there is an added extra step of sending the application to Maxwell (most likely for ensuring Corporate CAP gets its cash). Perhaps a new, all electronic membership application system needs to be invented; eliminating the requirement to send applications to NHQ?
Quote from: Patterson on October 08, 2013, 10:00:39 PM
Perhaps a new, all electronic membership application system needs to be invented; eliminating the requirement to send applications to NHQ?
No "perhaps" about it.
Development is well underway.
Quote from: Ned on October 08, 2013, 10:06:12 PM
Quote from: Patterson on October 08, 2013, 10:00:39 PM
Perhaps a new, all electronic membership application system needs to be invented; eliminating the requirement to send applications to NHQ?
No "perhaps" about it.
Development is well underway.
Yep, was mentioned a couple of times at the national conference, if I recall the target was the end of the year at least for the cadet side.
Quote from: Eclipse on October 08, 2013, 10:52:35 PM
Quote from: Tim Medeiros on October 08, 2013, 10:11:33 PM...the target was the end of the year...
Which year?
Great question. The software making it possible was purchased 3 years ago... ::)
Quote from: Panache on October 07, 2013, 10:00:11 PM
Quote from: flyer333555 on October 05, 2013, 04:09:43 AM
That will not happen in the private sector. That is what the private sector does not know, care, or understand about public employees. That is why the public unions make so much noise during contract negotiations.
Not necessarily. Both my wife and I have it explicitly stated in our (non-government) job descriptions that we're "essential employees" and we're expected to report to work during area or weather-related emergencies unless our bosses tell us specifically to stay home.
This is good Continuity of Operations for any business.