I currently only have a pair of all-leather combat boots with a dress-shoe-like sole. They're great for drill and parades, but they'd get trashed during my Basic Encampment. Do you think boots like the ones in the link below would be acceptable for Basic Encampment? Do you think I would have to get a mirrory shine on them in order for them to be acceptable? Your response is appreciated.
http://www.altama.com/products/3668-black-8-exospeed-ii-boot
Look here and save some money: http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/browse/mens-footwear-duty.aspx?c=11&s=370
In regards to encampment boots, they need to be able to take a beating and all-day wear. These look like a decent pair. I do suggest if you're going to spend that much you look at Bates' lineup of tactical boots. linky (http://www.batesfootwear.com/US/en-us/Gallery.mvc.aspx/G-F/Boots?feature_PTYP=1071#/US/en-us/Gallery.ajax.aspx/G-F/Boots?feature_PTYP=1071&feature_ACTV=&genericSizeTypeFilter=&dimension_SS=&dimension_SW=&genericcolor=9&feature_COMF=&feature_ALL=260&SelectedSort=Featured&__ajax=true)
Protip: Buy a pair with side-zip technology.
I specifically wear this pair. (http://www.batesfootwear.com/US/en-us/Product.mvc.aspx/16914M/0/Footwear/Mens/Delta-8-Side-Zip-Boot?galleryId=G-F)
Second on Bates if you're going to spend the money anyway. I wear them to work everyday as well as any time I put on BDU's and in bad weather in Blues as well.
http://www.batesfootwear.com/US/en-us/Product.mvc.aspx/8455M/0/Footwear/Mens/11-inch-Paratrooper-Side-Zip-Boot?galleryId=G-F
Legal, common sight on cadets, and with that sidezipper HG thinks is so hunky-dory ;)
Also very budget conscious if you want a good pair that's still relatively cheap.
(P.S. These are what our AD AF Capts were wearing at GAWG Encampment, just to do SAR stuff in)
For a good work boot I'd recommend the "super boot 2" Unfortunately, I am not sure where you can find them other than the Coast Guard Uniform distribution center. They have good water protection, decent insulation for most environments, and (IMHO) are more comfortable than most boots I have worn. They are also can take a considerable beating. Not that this applies to CAP, they also have a safety toe.
If you want, I can find out the manufacturer and a source for them, unless you know people with access to the CG UDC.
My second recommendation would be bates. A lot of my friends tried these boots and liked them.
YMMV
Hey, side zip is a friggin life and time saver. Just stick your foot in and zip up the zipper. Can't get faster than than. ;)
Quote from: titanII on January 04, 2011, 03:15:17 AM
Do you think I would have to get a mirrory shine on them in order for them to be acceptable? Your response is appreciated.
I would get them as well shined as possible before going. Putting the time and effort to make them look nice ahead of time will make your life a lot easier at encampment.
Quote from: HGjunkie on January 04, 2011, 02:45:09 PM
Hey, side zip is a friggin life and time saver. Just stick your foot in and zip up the zipper. Can't get faster than than. ;)
I love my Bates as well, but be warned, I popped the slider off mine by keeping it laced too tight and trying to pull up on it. 10 dollar fix and I had a spare pair of beat up boots, but a bit of inconvience.
Mark
Quote from: HGjunkie on January 04, 2011, 02:45:09 PM
Hey, side zip is a friggin life and time saver. Just stick your foot in and zip up the zipper. Can't get faster than than. ;)
After seeing a cadet at NESA with zipper boots falling apart and duck taped due to a broken zipper, I will never wear them nor will I recommend them.
I had a pair of tan ones that I used daily while in the sandbox. Some diesel fuel spillage rendered them cosmetically "uinfit for duty", but mechanically they worked fine for over a year. Never had a problem with the zipper.
Since no one else has said it, I will. Regardless of the boots you get, BREAK THEM IN. Wear them as much as you can before encampment so that they will work for you. Don't be the guy who ends up with huge blisters because he didn't break his boots in before encampment.
Yeah I think you would have to mirror shine them
Don't worry about a mirror shine unless you plan on wearing them with your blues. For encampment, all that is necessary is a brush shine.
Been wearing bates w/ zippers everyday for about 10 years. Never had a zipper even get tired let alone break. I usually get a new pair every 18 months or so, and wear the 80 hours a week or so.
The average part time capper could probably get 5+ years out of a set.
Ditto - been wearing jump-style side zippers for about 6 years, never had an issue, I like the look but even fully worn in then tend to
be heck on your feet if all your walking in on concrete.
Switched to the Bates this year, much more comfortable.
I would imagine the zipper issue was an anomaly or a quality issue.
http://www.uscav.com/Productinfo.aspx?productid=18687&tabid=1
The ONLY boot I ever want to wear. No zipper to break or to hurt your ankle if it rolls. Will take a beating and still look great. Also have the best tread I have ever had other than full gator tooth soles.
Does Bates have side zip with safety toe? I couldn't figure it out from their site. I've never had a problem with side zips, the only issue is they don't last as long as the Corcorans I've found out.
Quote from: a2capt on January 04, 2011, 10:50:05 PM
Does Bates have side zip with safety toe? I couldn't figure it out from their site.
Yes.
Get yourself a set of Magnums, 5.11, or even a set of bates. Magnums will last and shine up nice.
I love my Bates Infantry Combat Boots that I got on the cheap from Sportsman's Guide a number of years ago. Wearing them right now with my ODU. Super comfy, and waterproof too!
If you have the money to spend I'd say you may wanna give Bellevilles a try. I have a pair of 880's that are amazing!
Quote from: a2capt on January 04, 2011, 10:50:05 PM
Does Bates have side zip with safety toe?
Yes, Mine do. I recieved them as a gift so I'm can't quote what model they are, but I was told when they were handed to me that they were USCG boots, hopefully that will help.
In my opinion, the best boots are Corcoran Jump Boots. I have them myself and they are amazing. Side zipper is a plus as well. Such as - http://www.workbootsusa.com/come10lesizi.html
Quote from: J.American on January 20, 2011, 03:20:02 AM
In my opinion, the best boots are Corcoran Jump Boots. I have them myself and they are amazing. Side zipper is a plus as well. Such as - http://www.workbootsusa.com/come10lesizi.html
Do not wear those boots to the field or to Encampment, they have no tread. If you showed up for any kind of outdoor training, let alone an ES mission wearing them, I would send you home because they are a safety hazard. However Corcoran does make a decent boot of the same type with decent tread. However I still don't recommend them for wear as the toe cap is not as strong as standard boots because it is sewn on instead of one piece. I suggest going with something like a standard jungle boot, or all leather leg boot. They are made for the work.
In WWII the jump boot was semi practical for the Airborne because of their ability to support the whole foot while performing airborne operations. However the rest of the military weren't authorized the boot, because it wasn't practical at all.
EDIT: The Airborne still wears the boot for one purpose, for dress uniforms while blousing the pants for tradition. In the 101st Airborne, they are not even authorized with field uniforms.
Also, the zipper, I see it as a hazard as well, if nothing else, in the field it can rub your ankle raw, if not do worse.
Quote from: manfredvonrichthofen on January 20, 2011, 05:23:39 PM
Do not wear those boots to the field or to Encampment, they have no tread. If you showed up for any kind of outdoor training, let alone an ES mission wearing them, I would send you home because they are a safety hazard.
Come again? I've worn mine to 8 encampments, 25+ missions, and hiked the highest 40 peaks in the North East in mine. I've never had an issue with traction. Meanwhile, there have been plenty of folks who have twisted their ankles, etc wearing those boots with the enormous tread on the bottom.
Quote from: manfredvonrichthofen on January 20, 2011, 05:23:39 PMIf you showed up for any kind of outdoor training, let alone an ES mission wearing them, I would send you home because they are a safety hazard.
You can't send someone home because you don't like their boots, as long as the boots meet the uniform spec, which these do.
I agree these are a poor choice, I own two pairs myself, and if not worn and sized properly (difficult for cadets), they will chew your
feet up like a cheese grater, but we need to be clear on the bounds of our "go home powers".
Quote from: Eclipse on January 20, 2011, 05:31:20 PM
Quote from: manfredvonrichthofen on January 20, 2011, 05:23:39 PMIf you showed up for any kind of outdoor training, let alone an ES mission wearing them, I would send you home because they are a safety hazard.
You can't send someone home because you don't like their boots, as long as the boots meet the uniform spec, which these do.
I agree these are a poor choice, I own two pairs myself, and if not worn and sized properly (difficult for cadets), they will chew your
feet up like a cheese grater, but we need to be clear on the bounds of our "go home powers".
Want to bet? I would send someone home, or make them change their boots. I don't hate the boot, it is the tread, there is none. Now Corcoran does make a version called the Matterhorn. They have decent tread and I have nothing against them. The problem is there IS NO TREAD. I would make that call, and I would stick by it. I have seen many problems with people wearing these boots in the field.
Quote from: manfredvonrichthofen on January 20, 2011, 05:43:38 PM
Want to bet? I would send someone home, or make them change their boots. I don't hate the boot, it is the tread, there is none. Now Corcoran does make a version called the Matterhorn. They have decent tread and I have nothing against them. The problem is there IS NO TREAD. I would make that call, and I would stick by it. I have seen many problems with people wearing these boots in the field.
Yes. I will take that bet. Assuming you have the authority as a commander or GTL, your ability to sustain their leaving would last about 3 phone calls.
Don't stamp your feet on this, no Group or wing CC is going to let you send a member home because their compliant uniform parts
are deemed arbitrarily "unsafe" by you.
Quote from: Eclipse on January 20, 2011, 06:09:32 PM
Yes. I will take that bet. Assuming you have the authority as a commander or GTL, your ability to sustain their leaving would last about 3 phone calls.
Don't stamp your feet on this, no Group or wing CC is going to let you send a member home because their compliant uniform parts
are deemed arbitrarily "unsafe" by you.
If is see a safety hazard, I am going to call on it. And yes, I see a boot with no tread as a safety violation. If your squadron van has no tread on the tires, would you drive it? I would seriously hope not. If you would, I would call you on that safety violation, not that I think you would drive with no tread, but to someone who knows your boots are your body's tires, it is dangerous.
Not remotely the same thing.
Quote from: Eclipse on January 20, 2011, 06:25:14 PM
Not remotely the same thing.
Really? You don't rely on your boot tread to keep traction in slippery or muddy situations just like u do your car's treads? If everyone only dove on dry asphalt there would be no need for treads, just the same with your boots. They are very close to the same thing.
Quote from: manfredvonrichthofen on January 20, 2011, 06:14:21 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on January 20, 2011, 06:09:32 PM
Yes. I will take that bet. Assuming you have the authority as a commander or GTL, your ability to sustain their leaving would last about 3 phone calls.
Don't stamp your feet on this, no Group or wing CC is going to let you send a member home because their compliant uniform parts
are deemed arbitrarily "unsafe" by you.
If is see a safety hazard, I am going to call on it. And yes, I see a boot with no tread as a safety violation. If your squadron van has no tread on the tires, would you drive it? I would seriously hope not. If you would, I would call you on that safety violation, not that I think you would drive with no tread, but to someone who knows your boots are your body's tires, it is dangerous.
You can call on it all you want but I guarantee you will lose. Your group commander as well as group V's commander wear those boots. They are both GBDs. They have plenty of tread for anything you will find in this state. I have watched cadets climb up the worst of the hills in your AO in those boots.
Quote from: davidsinn on January 20, 2011, 06:32:12 PM
Quote from: manfredvonrichthofen on January 20, 2011, 06:14:21 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on January 20, 2011, 06:09:32 PM
Yes. I will take that bet. Assuming you have the authority as a commander or GTL, your ability to sustain their leaving would last about 3 phone calls.
Don't stamp your feet on this, no Group or wing CC is going to let you send a member home because their compliant uniform parts
are deemed arbitrarily "unsafe" by you.
If is see a safety hazard, I am going to call on it. And yes, I see a boot with no tread as a safety violation. If your squadron van has no tread on the tires, would you drive it? I would seriously hope not. If you would, I would call you on that safety violation, not that I think you would drive with no tread, but to someone who knows your boots are your body's tires, it is dangerous.
You can call on it all you want but I guarantee you will lose. Your group commander as well as group V's commander wear those boots. They are both GBDs. They have plenty of tread for anything you will find in this state. I have watched cadets climb up the worst of the hills in your AO in those boots.
Try it in the snow we have today and see how many cadets fall on their faces. I do not think they are safe for field use.
Quote from: manfredvonrichthofen on January 20, 2011, 06:34:27 PM
Quote from: davidsinn on January 20, 2011, 06:32:12 PM
Quote from: manfredvonrichthofen on January 20, 2011, 06:14:21 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on January 20, 2011, 06:09:32 PM
Yes. I will take that bet. Assuming you have the authority as a commander or GTL, your ability to sustain their leaving would last about 3 phone calls.
Don't stamp your feet on this, no Group or wing CC is going to let you send a member home because their compliant uniform parts
are deemed arbitrarily "unsafe" by you.
If is see a safety hazard, I am going to call on it. And yes, I see a boot with no tread as a safety violation. If your squadron van has no tread on the tires, would you drive it? I would seriously hope not. If you would, I would call you on that safety violation, not that I think you would drive with no tread, but to someone who knows your boots are your body's tires, it is dangerous.
You can call on it all you want but I guarantee you will lose. Your group commander as well as group V's commander wear those boots. They are both GBDs. They have plenty of tread for anything you will find in this state. I have watched cadets climb up the worst of the hills in your AO in those boots.
Try it in the snow we have today and see how many cadets fall on their faces. I do not think they are safe for field use.
My boots are wore down pretty good so they have about the same amount of tread; I'm out of a job right now and can't afford new ones but I have no problem in the snow or on the ice. It's not about the tread in most cases. It's about how well you walk on them.
I just can't wait until we change to ABUs or Multicam so that these boots will go away. I see them as a hazard, and I have seen people hurt wearing them because they couldn't get the traction they needed. And it is not just some one in a million incident either.
Quote from: manfredvonrichthofen on January 20, 2011, 06:42:20 PM
I just can't wait until we change to ABUs or Multicam so that these boots will go away. I see them as a hazard, and I have seen people hurt wearing them because they couldn't get the traction they needed. And it is not just some one in a million incident either.
And I've seen people get hurt from too much traction. If you get hurt because you didn't have enough traction it's the fault of the wearer. All you have to do is slow down and you'll be fine.
I have been wearing the same pair of Corcoran II Jump boots for almost 9 years. Encampments x9, NBB x4, close to 25 missions, plus training activities, and I have never had any issue with the traction on my boots. I had to replace the hard plate on one boot early last year, but it was from dry rot.
Proving that any specific boot was a safety hazard would be fairly difficult. You would need to be able to show that a particular make/model was involved with incidents involving ankle or foot injuries, or falls. If you have that info, I think we would love to see it.
Switching to the ABU or Mutlicam wont solve your issue either. Corcoran makes the boot in both the coyote tan and sage green.
-Paramedic
If everyone loves the jump boots, I don't understand why, I used to wear them with my Army Greens and Blues all the time, why not just wear these, they are a lot more comfortable, and they are actually worth it being that they have tread.
http://www.corcoranandmatterhorn.com/ItemDisplay.asp?Style=XCS2525&CategoryID=34
That is the Corcoran II. It has the soft neck at the top. The Corcoran I does not. The leather comes up the boot and stops. The Corcoran I is a "parade" boot now and has very minimal tread, because you typically don't need the traction on the parade field.
I have only seen one person in 10 years wear the Corcoran I. Everybody else I know wears the Corcoran II or AF Marauder (the jump/jungle mix).
I suggest the Corcoran II anytime somebody asks me to suggest a boot.
-Paramedic
Quote from: MICT1362 on January 20, 2011, 07:09:15 PM
That is the Corcoran II. It has the soft neck at the top. The Corcoran I does not. The leather comes up the boot and stops. The Corcoran I is a "parade" boot now and has very minimal tread, because you typically don't need the traction on the parade field.
I have only seen one person in 10 years wear the Corcoran I. Everybody else I know wears the Corcoran II or AF Marauder (the jump/jungle mix).
I suggest the Corcoran II anytime somebody asks me to suggest a boot.
-Paramedic
We have been discussing the boot listed at the top of the second page, it has almost zero traction. I wore it long enough to know it sucks in the field, and is rather uncomfortable without better inserts. I wouldn't have any probglem with the Corcoran II or the Matterhorn or Marauder (The black Marauder, not the tan one).
Yep, it's a side zip version of the Corcoran I. Terrible boot for anything other than parades.
There is a possibility that somebody just found a similar boot and added the link. Like I said, I have only met 1 person in ten years that wore this regularly.
-Paramedic
Quote from: MICT1362 on January 20, 2011, 07:17:52 PM
Yep, it's a side zip version of the Corcoran I. Terrible boot for anything other than parades.
There is a possibility that somebody just found a similar boot and added the link. Like I said, I have only met 1 person in ten years that wore this regularly.
-Paramedic
Back when the Army was still in BDUs i saw quite a few wearing them, and many of them have gotten hurt wearing them while training. Most of the time they just fell and got the wind knocked out of them by their body armor, but a couple actually fell down hills and such and broke bones. One guy broke two ribs when he fell on his canteen with the cup.
While I have worn my Corcorans, I have never had a problem with traction, blisters (didn't even need moleskin to break them in), or the like. However I do use them for their intended purpose - as parade boots. I wear them to any event where I anticipate an inspection, drill, or the like. For events that have more of an ES or field bent, I have other boots with good tread and ankle support.
Anyways, its just the way I wear my boots.
Quote from: J.American on January 21, 2011, 05:24:29 AM
While I have worn my Corcorans, I have never had a problem with traction, blisters (didn't even need moleskin to break them in), or the like. However I do use them for their intended purpose - as parade boots. I wear them to any event where I anticipate an inspection, drill, or the like. For events that have more of an ES or field bent, I have other boots with good tread and ankle support.
Anyways, its just the way I wear my boots.
You are wearing them right, that is why you never have problems. They are a parade boot, not a field boot.
Quote from: titanII on January 04, 2011, 03:15:17 AM
I currently only have a pair of all-leather combat boots with a dress-shoe-like sole. They're great for drill and parades, but they'd get trashed during my Basic Encampment. Do you think boots like the ones in the link below would be acceptable for Basic Encampment? Do you think I would have to get a mirrory shine on them in order for them to be acceptable? Your response is appreciated.
http://www.altama.com/products/3668-black-8-exospeed-ii-boot
If you are a teenager, especially a young one, you will almost certainly grow at least half a shoe size every year. Consequently boots you buy this year probably wouldn't fit you next year. Most Cadets outgrow their boots long, long before they are worn.
Check to see if zippered boots are permitted before you buy them. Some encampments don't allow them.
You can buy perfectly adequate boots for $40.
http://www.uscav.com/productinfo.aspx?productid=20836&tabid=548&catid=371
http://www.qmuniforms.com/Product/extreme-value-all-leather-combat-boot/PPQ89+210/200307404
The later is the boot we recommend for our Cadets. It's perfectly adequate. Don't be a gear jerk.
When you receive the boots, wear them around the house for a few days being careful not to scuff them. You'll discover if they fit. If not return them.
Quote from: dogboy on January 23, 2011, 09:57:37 PM
The later is the boot we recommend for our Cadets. It's perfectly adequate. Don't be a gear jerk.
While I like those boots, I don't completely understand the gear jerk comment. I fail to see why someone is somehow a jerk for purchasing a higher quality boot for whatever reason they might have. I agree, for regular meetings and encampment those boots are probably just fine. But I would think really hard before I took a pair into the field. Does that make me a "gear jerk"? Personally, I think it just means that I care about my equipment not falling apart 2 hours into a 4 hour sortie.
I concur with spaceman. A great pair of boots is way too useful to be a gear queer comment. It's not a $150 compass, or Night vision goggles.
On the cheap there's nothing better than the below.
http://www.amazon.com/Altama-Black-Combat-Vulcanized-regular/dp/B003H956N2
I started with those. Wore them for the first 6 years of my CAP career. Get some great insoles and you'll be just fine.
They come with really crappy leather insoles. Buy them 1/2 to big.
Quote from: IceNine on January 23, 2011, 10:37:56 PM
I concur with spaceman. A great pair of boots is way too useful to be a gear queer comment. It's not a $150 compass, or Night vision goggles.
On the cheap there's nothing better than the below.
http://www.amazon.com/Altama-Black-Combat-Vulcanized-regular/dp/B003H956N2
I started with those. Wore them for the first 6 years of my CAP career. Get some great insoles and you'll be just fine.
They come with really crappy leather insoles. Buy them 1/2 to big.
Those are the ones I was issued when I was in the Army. They are the absolute worst thing when it comes to traction on anything wet or frozen.......
Quote from: Spaceman3750 on January 23, 2011, 10:33:50 PM
Quote from: dogboy on January 23, 2011, 09:57:37 PM
The later is the boot we recommend for our Cadets. It's perfectly adequate. Don't be a gear jerk.
While I like those boots, I don't completely understand the gear jerk comment.
The original poster stated he needed boots for encampment. A week's encampment wouldn't put much stress on a pair of boots. Buying $120 boots that he'll outgrow in a year for encampment qualifies as "gear jerkiness" in my opinion.
My personal recommendation is go Altama jungle boots, like IceNine suggested. Altama is an extremely good quality company. I personally have 11" Bates paratroopers. Best looking boot, the tread is alright, and they will perform for you good enough. I will say that the Bates paratrooper is one of the highest quality boots I've ever worn. But jungle boots, espically the ones made by Altama, perform the best on the field. It is the fact that they are made with panama out-soles.
The cheapest pair of boots I've seen, which will not last you much more than 6-8 months are in the link.
http://www.airsplat.com/Categories/AC-APP-CO-JB701.htm
Yes it is an airsoft website, but that is extremely cheap for boots. It is reflective of the long time quality like I've said, but hey, if all your going to use them for is a week, they will work extremely well.
Good luck!
Quote from: dogboy on January 23, 2011, 09:57:37 PM
Check to see if zippered boots are permitted before you buy them. Some encampments don't allow them.
How could an Encampment not allow them? They are specifically allowed in CAPM 39-1, Table 2-3.
Quote from: J.American on January 24, 2011, 01:49:13 PM
Quote from: dogboy on January 23, 2011, 09:57:37 PM
Check to see if zippered boots are permitted before you buy them. Some encampments don't allow them.
How could an Encampment not allow them? They are specifically allowed in CAPM 39-1, Table 2-3.
You are absolutely correct about the regulations. Regardless, some encampments have arcane rules about what Cadets can and cannot wear. For example, Cadets may be forbidden to wear shoes with synthetic, high gloss uppers.
I'm not defending these policies; I'm simply stating that they exist.
That is a requirement that I would literally ignore.
There is absolutely no way we can ask or require people to buy new boots or other non-trivial purchases, especially when it's "just because"