A CAP Kilt?

[cap235629]

20 or so years ago when I was in High School I had a friend who I was in JROTC with who was also a CAP cadet with the TewMac composite squadron in Tewksbury Massachusetts.  I remember him showing me a CAP uniform that included a Kilt.  IIRC it was an honor guard uniform of some type or possibly a color guard uniform.

This memory was recently jogged when I was reading another thread.  I DO NOT wish to get into discussions about any issues people have with other wings, I am just curious if anyone remembers anything like this and if they recall what tartan it was or anything else really

Thanks!

[Tubacap]

A friend of mine, who was a TACO with me several years ago, would always wear a kilt after hours.  But that wasn't in uniform.  Fairly frightening if I do remember, although I try not to.

[proveritas]

You gotta be careful about those kilts. They can cause lasting psycological trauma. 


Definitely not CAPR 39-1 approved anyway... 

[Cecil DP]

20 or so years ago when I was in High School I had a friend who I was in JROTC with who was also a CAP cadet with the TewMac composite squadron in Tewksbury Massachusetts.  I remember him showing me a CAP uniform that included a Kilt.  IIRC it was an honor guard uniform of some type or possibly a color guard uniform.

This memory was recently jogged when I was reading another thread.  I DO NOT wish to get into discussions about any issues people have with other wings, I am just curious if anyone remembers anything like this and if they recall what tartan it was or anything else really

Thanks!

The Commander of that unit was fired and the squadron nearly dissolved due to some of the things going on there.

[afgeo4]

Now if we had an official Fife and Drum team...

It'd be cool to wear a dark blue kilt with the mess dress top.

[ColonelJack]

You gotta be careful about those kilts. They can cause lasting psycological trauma. 

Now, now ... I wear a kilt regularly and have had absolutely no lasting trauma.  (And I get quite a few wolf whistles from the ladies, too!!)

Definitely not CAPR 39-1 approved anyway... 

Agreed.  But then, I have worn a kilt with the mess dress jacket on a couple of occasions (I know it's not kosher; I'm retired...what're they gonna do, fire me?) and I think it looks great.  Here ... I'll show you.  As I said before, getting the kilt is not difficult.  Getting the beautiful woman to stand with -- that's your department.

Jack

[RRLE]

I missed the other thread so if these links are duplicates I'm sorry.

Kilt photos in bottom row

[MIKE]

CAP members and kilts... It figures I guess. 

[PA Guy]

This memory was recently jogged when I was reading another thread.  I DO NOT wish to get into discussions about any issues people have with other wings, I am just curious if anyone remembers anything like this and if they recall what tartan it was or anything else really

Must have been something brewed up on a local level.  I don't recall anything like that being authorized on a natl. level.  I did see someone wear a kilt with the short sleeve blue shirt once but it wasn't in public and it certainly wasn't authorized.

[D2SK]

It's a guy in a skirt.  No matter how you cut it, it's a guy in a skirt.  It looks silly without a uniform top...it looks absolutely ridiculous with one.

Why on earth would you wear one?

[Major Carrales]

It's a guy in a skirt.  No matter how you cut it, it's a guy in a skirt.  It looks silly without a uniform top...it looks absolutely ridiculous with one.

Why on earth would you wear one?

Well, why do we wear BDUs, a BATTLE/COMBAT UTILITY UNIFORM in the peacetime domestic setting?   Why wear a four pocket tunic that you aren't supposed to put things in the pockets of?  Why do we wear a "tie" at all with anything?  Why?

The answer is that it is traditional.  There are lots of thing that don't make much sense when viewed in a vaccuum.  You have to know the history and tradition for it to make sense.

[davedove]

It's a guy in a skirt.  No matter how you cut it, it's a guy in a skirt.  It looks silly without a uniform top...it looks absolutely ridiculous with one.

Why on earth would you wear one?

The answer is that it is traditional.  There are lots of thing that don't make much sense when viewed in a vaccuum.  You have to know the history and tradition for it to make sense.

The Major is absolutely correct.

D2SK, there are many men who have served in the Highland regiments who have something to say to you about their "silly" uniforms.  So would many US servicemen who have served with them.  I would suggest you google Black Watch.

Do you know that each of the US Armed forces have a tartan designed for them?  Many current and former servicemen wear a kilt for formal and casual events.  Some even wear them for everyday wear.

If you don't want to wear one, that's fine.  But don't ridicule those who wear them with pride.

[ColonelJack]

It's a guy in a skirt.  No matter how you cut it, it's a guy in a skirt.  It looks silly without a uniform top...it looks absolutely ridiculous with one.

Why on earth would you wear one?

All kidding aside, I know several Scotsmen who'd be more than pleased to "educate" you on the difference between a kilt and a skirt.  They've been the traditional dress of Scottish men for centuries; longer, in fact, than men have worn pants/trousers.  In fact, they are uniform items for members of the British Army's Scottish Regiments.  And if one wears anything under the kilt, one is considered out of uniform.  (Yes, I know that's more than most of you wanted to know.)

Ridiculous?  If you want to see ridiculous, look around you at today's young people (thankfully not in CAP) who walk around with the beltlines of their trousers below their backsides and their underwear showing.  THAT is ridiculous.  A kilt has centuries of tradition and wear in war and peace behind it.

Why wear one?  Why not?

You ought to try one.  

Jack

[JayT]

You gotta be careful about those kilts. They can cause lasting psycological trauma. 


Definitely not CAPR 39-1 approved anyway... 

What's CAPR 39-1?

[_]

You gotta be careful about those kilts. They can cause lasting psycological trauma. 


Definitely not CAPR 39-1 approved anyway... 

What's CAPR 39-1?

The uniform manual.

.pdf

[JayT]

You gotta be careful about those kilts. They can cause lasting psycological trauma. 


Definitely not CAPR 39-1 approved anyway... 

What's CAPR 39-1?

The uniform manual.

.pdf

Then why is it labeled CAPM 39-1?

[D2SK]

Sorry, didn't know you guys would get so upset when I called your dress a skirt.



PS - I just want to know who is checking to see if you are out of uniform or not when you've one on.

[davedove]

PS - I just want to know who is checking to see if you are out of uniform or not when you've one on.

A gentleman never tells!

[proveritas]

Now, now ... I wear a kilt regularly and have had absolutely no lasting trauma.  (And I get quite a few wolf whistles from the ladies, too!!)

We're not talking about the WEARER of the kilt suffering lasting trauma...

I gotta admit though -- it takes guts to put one on!

[proveritas]

Then why is it labeled CAPM 39-1?

'Scuse me... CAPM 39-1. Got me alphabet soup roiled.  :angel:

[Hawk200]

What's CAPR 39-1?

It used to be the Nondescrimination regulation. It's been superseded by CAPR 36-2, Probably because people couldn't seem to keep from getting it confused with CAPM 39-1.

[flyerthom]

It's a guy in a skirt.  No matter how you cut it, it's a guy in a skirt.  It looks silly without a uniform top...it looks absolutely ridiculous with one.

Why on earth would you wear one?

The answer is that it is traditional.  There are lots of thing that don't make much sense when viewed in a vaccuum.  You have to know the history and tradition for it to make sense.

The Major is absolutely correct.

D2SK, there are many men who have served in the Highland regiments who have something to say to you about their "silly" uniforms.  So would many US servicemen who have served with them.  I would suggest you google Black Watch.

Do you know that each of the US Armed forces have a tartan designed for them?  Many current and former servicemen wear a kilt for formal and casual events.  Some even wear them for everyday wear.

If you don't want to wear one, that's fine.  But don't ridicule those who wear them with pride.

Absolutely correct.  But units who wear them have the history, tradition and lineage .  For example 69th Infantry Regiment (Light) of the New York National Guard traces it heritage to the Irish Brigade - the 69th New York Infantry Regiment of the Union Army. It was mostly composed of Irish Immigrants from New York City and Later Philadelphia. (as an aside - I'm not sure if the 69th New York does in fact use kilts but if any American Unit has a claim it's them.) I wonder if any CAP units can establish that sort of lineage to earn that honor. Just because some of my ancestors are Famine Immigrants does not give me the right to wear a kilt with my mess dress. Does my unit have that lineage? To unilaterally claim it sans solid historical research smacks of serious wannbeism.

[fyrfitrmedic]

 I remember seeing a proposed CAP tartan that someone came up with years ago.

[Psicorp]

It's a guy in a skirt.  No matter how you cut it, it's a guy in a skirt.  It looks silly without a uniform top...it looks absolutely ridiculous with one.

Why on earth would you wear one?

As I was told by a gentleman at a Renn Faire once, if you're wearing something under it, it's a skirt...otherwise, it's a kilt   

[Grumpy]

Gentlemen, the U.S. Air Force sport kilt:

http://www.sportkilt.com/departments/mens-sport-kilts/mens-kilts-sport-kilts/US_Air_Force--kilt.cfm

The U.S. Air Force Tartan:

http://www.lindaclifford.com/USAF.html

[D2SK]

My take away from this eye opening missive is nothing comes between a man and his skirt kilt.

But seriously folks -- I'm not Scottish, I'm German - but you sure won't catch me wearing ladderhosen with or without my uniform.  Grew up in Texas - maybe I should wear some Levi's with my mess dress?

[ColonelJack]

Sorry, didn't know you guys would get so upset when I called your dress a skirt.

It's not a dress, either.   

PS - I just want to know who is checking to see if you are out of uniform or not when you've one on.

Well, there are two possible answers to the question of what one has on under the kilt.  If a man asks, one replies, "You can find out for yourself, if you're man enough!"  If a lady asks, the proper response is, "I'm a man of few words, lass ... give me your hand."   

Or the classic, all-purpose answer:  "Nothing worn under the kilt; everything in perfect working order."

Jack

[ColonelJack]

My take away from this eye opening missive is nothing comes between a man and his skirt kilt.

Great recovery, there.

But seriously folks -- I'm not Scottish, I'm German - but you sure won't catch me wearing ladderhosen with or without my uniform. 

And no one is suggesting that you wear lederhosen.  But I would point out that, should you choose to honor your heritage by wearing lederhosen, you would certainly be entitled to do so without being ragged by those who don't know any better.  (As an aside, I think that -- while a kilt can and does look good with mess dress, anyway -- lederhosen just wouldn't cut it with any kind of uniform.)

Grew up in Texas - maybe I should wear some Levi's with my mess dress?

Well, use your own discretion on that one.   

Jack

[isuhawkeye]

my typical response to the classic question

"what do you wear under your kilt?"

reply "Go ask your wife (girlfriend)"

or

reply "your wife's lipstick"

that usually shuts them up

[Fireball]

  A timely topic. At work a couple of days ago my intern made a comment about guys in kilts being questionable. He didn't realize that I am of Scot-Irish descent, a member of the Clan Macpherson, and routinely wear a kilt to all kinds of social events. After I showed him a picture of me tossing the Caber (110lb light pole) he became much, much more respectful of my heritage.
 
Of course when I've been asked what I wear under my kilt, I reply "Shoes and socks".

[_]

I vote we officially adopt utilikilts.  Functional, stylish, what else could you want?

utilikilts.com

The survival kilt even carries "18 bottles of your favorite beverage" whatever those beverages may be. 

[D2SK]

And no one is suggesting that you wear lederhosen.  But I would point out that, should you choose to honor your heritage by wearing lederhosen, you would certainly be entitled to do so without being ragged by those who don't know any better.  (As an aside, I think that -- while a kilt can and does look good with mess dress, anyway -- lederhosen just wouldn't cut it with any kind of uniform.)

Lighten up Francis.  I'm just joking around.  Scots have a great heritage.  If you want to go commando and wear a kilt, more power to you.  There can be only one.

[fyrfitrmedic]

[Grumpy]

Gentlemen, here's a little bit more about the Air Force Tartan, the Billy Mitchell Tartan and the Dress Sporran (please note the new Air Force wings).

  http://www.featherbonnets.com/airforce.htm

Also, I am in possession of a DVD put out by Maxwell AFB about Drill and Ceremonies.  It has a section about Dinning-in/Dinning-out that shows the officers at the head table standing for toasts.  The third officer from the left is wearing Mess Dress with kilt.

Whodathunk?

[ColonelJack]

Lighten up Francis.  I'm just joking around.  Scots have a great heritage.  If you want to go commando and wear a kilt, more power to you.  There can be only one.

That, my friend, is the difficulty of posting in topics such as this ... nothing in your commentary until this message indicated that you were simply joking.  Sorry if I misinterpreted you.

There can be only one, indeed ... and it's gonna be ME!!  Bwahahahahaha...(CHOP)

Jack

[ColonelJack]

Gentlemen, here's a little bit more about the Air Force Tartan, the Billy Mitchell Tartan and the Dress Sporran (please note the new Air Force wings).

  http://www.featherbonnets.com/airforce.htm

Nice, nice!

Also, I am in possession of a DVD put out by Maxwell AFB about Drill and Ceremonies.  It has a section about Dinning-in/Dinning-out that shows the officers at the head table standing for toasts.  The third officer from the left is wearing Mess Dress with kilt.

Whodathunk?

Suddenly I feel much better about my mess-dress-and-kilt combo.

Jack

[Grumpy]

I was reviewing that DVD and was shocked to see the kilts so I found these web sites.  I was able to find something about the AF pipe and drum corps but nothing on authorization of kilts with the mess dress.  Just the ceremony I saw on the DVD.

I think they look cool.  I just don't have the guts to wear 'em.   

[D2SK]

If I wore a kilt, it would ruin any woman who was lucky enough to see me.  For the sake of women (and the men who love them) I will refrain from wearing a kilt.  By doing so, they will never realize how much they have been cheated.



In the words of a famous Soct... "I'm [darn] sexy"

[SJFedor]

Ohhh man, this thread is going in the gutter rather rapidly...

Never had the desire to wear one, but there's some Scot-Irish in my blood. I may hafta go get one once I've got this motorcycle paid off...

[MIKE]

Ohhh man, this thread is going in the gutter rather rapidly...

Agreed.