ABU vs BBDU

[JK657]

Just curious on what people think is more important. Is it more important to look like the Air Force to ensure the Auxiliary connection or is it more important that all CAP members are in the same field uniform?

[Luis R. Ramos]

Topic beaten to death in about 1,000,000,000,000 other threads...



Flyer

[Shuman 14]

I go for uniformity across the board.

Not hung up on woodland, blue, khaki, olive drab or ABU pattern for the field uniform... simply that CAP pick one for all members and go with it.

[ZigZag911]

To clarify my position, I'd put all seniors in nothing but corporate uniforms (hopefully with an improvement over the blue blazer, something more appropriate to our heritage), but leave all the cadets in AF style uniforms.

[Shuman 14]

To clarify my position, I'd put all seniors in nothing but corporate uniforms (hopefully with an improvement over the blue blazer, something more appropriate to our heritage), but leave all the cadets in AF style uniforms.

Even for field uniforms? As many have pointed out... BDUs are starting to run out, ABUs are not authorized, and small sizes for younger cadets really don't exist.

[ZigZag911]

I can live with cadets in BBDUs, but losing military style field uniform hurts our draw for youngsters...my experience has been that they like BDUs far more than service dress.

[Eclipse]

BDUs are starting to run out

Cite, please.

[ol'fido]

The last few missions I have been to, nobody really cared what anybody else wore as long as it was correct and reasonably appropriate(No Mess Dress for Ground Teams ). Most of the outside agencies I see at disasters are wearing tan cargo pants(5.11s mostly) and polos.

[Stonewall]

I didn't vote because I hate BBDUs.  I would prefer we all wear BDUs, but that isn't very likely.  If we wear ABUs I hate hate hate the black boot option.

[MIKE]

Even if only 1% of senior members could legitimately wear AF style uniforms... I would keep the option.   

[SAREXinNY]

If we wear ABUs I hate hate hate the black boot option.

^ I concur 100%

[AngelWings]

BBDUs definitely.

WARNING: Off topic comments ahead.

BBDUs with an some updates to them. Dark blue tapes like the ones that have been shown on the ABUs, less patches (remove activity/NCSA patches, squadron and wing patches), black only for the undershirts, making the belt for the uniform be the black riggers belt (I can find them for $3-4, so it wouldn't be expensive), and setting guidelines for the jackets for the BBDUs in the field or when in public. Wouldn't be too much of a change, just one to make things more modern

Possibly we could authorize a job shirt like fire departments use, mainly because it is fleece, comfortable, and good looking. The price would be the only factor I see restricting them, but I'm sure there are cheaper brands the ones I found. Just something I personally wouldn't be opposed to seeing. http://www.thefirestore.com/store/product.aspx/productId/15142/Game-Sportswear-8025-The-Responder-12oz-Superweight-Jobshirt/

I'd drop the shaving requirement for cadets when in the BBDUs.I don't see the actual benefit to having double standards. I'd also say make haircut standards for the seniors. Nothing is worse than seeing a guy with long flowing hair or a mullet walking towards you trying to present themselves as professionals. An update to meet the cadet and senior standards half way would be awesome. What I mean by that is everyone have the same standard, which'd be everyone can grow beards and have longer hair/hair that touches the ears, but everyone has to meet a certain standard of length for both facial hair and haircuts.

We could and should keep the AF style dress uniforms and make them more incorporated into CAP. This would stem the problems of cadets feeling as if the AF uniform has been stripped from them. If I were a PAO, I'd try to get the cadets next to EMTs, EMA agencies, and Fire Departments. Why? Dark blue uniforms are a common staple of first responders and I think you could brand it in such a way to make the SAR side of things look more authentic and attractive to young kids. Just an opinion though, YMMV.

All of these are just improvement ideas I have. Whether they'd ever happen or not is irrelevant to the fact that we all look childish showing up in camo uniforms with so much patches and color that we look like a Christmas tree

[arajca]

BBDUs definitely.

WARNING: Off topic comments ahead.

BBDUs with an some updates to them. Dark blue tapes like the ones that have been shown on the ABUs, less patches (remove activity/NCSA patches, squadron and wing patches), black only for the undershirts, making the belt for the uniform be the black riggers belt (I can find them for $3-4, so it wouldn't be expensive), and setting guidelines for the jackets for the BBDUs in the field or when in public. Wouldn't be too much of a change, just one to make things more modern

Possibly we could authorize a job shirt like fire departments use, mainly because it is fleece, comfortable, and good looking. The price would be the only factor I see restricting them, but I'm sure there are cheaper brands the ones I found. Just something I personally wouldn't be opposed to seeing. http://www.thefirestore.com/store/product.aspx/productId/15142/Game-Sportswear-8025-The-Responder-12oz-Superweight-Jobshirt/

I'd drop the shaving requirement for cadets when in the BBDUs.I don't see the actual benefit to having double standards. I'd also say make haircut standards for the seniors. Nothing is worse than seeing a guy with long flowing hair or a mullet walking towards you trying to present themselves as professionals. An update to meet the cadet and senior standards half way would be awesome. What I mean by that is everyone have the same standard, which'd be everyone can grow beards and have longer hair/hair that touches the ears, but everyone has to meet a certain standard of length for both facial hair and haircuts.

We could and should keep the AF style dress uniforms and make them more incorporated into CAP. This would stem the problems of cadets feeling as if the AF uniform has been stripped from them. If I were a PAO, I'd try to get the cadets next to EMTs, EMA agencies, and Fire Departments. Why? Dark blue uniforms are a common staple of first responders and I think you could brand it in such a way to make the SAR side of things look more authentic and attractive to young kids. Just an opinion though, YMMV.

All of these are just improvement ideas I have. Whether they'd ever happen or not is irrelevant to the fact that we all look childish showing up in camo uniforms with so much patches and color that we look like a Christmas tree

The reason the cadets have to meet the AF grooming standard for any uniform is they do not have the h/w standard to meet until they're 18. At which time, if they wish to become furry, they can come over to the dark side. The AF is not going to loosen the standard just for our cadets. We have enough problems with some cadets meeting a fairly simple hair standard. It'd get a whole lot worse if you loosen the standard. It's really easy to see when the hair is touching or over the ears or the collar without resorting to a ruler to determine compliance.

Where do you find rigger's belts for $3-$4?

[MIKE]

Where do you find rigger's belts for $3-$4?

Price is about right for the DSCP issue one via CGEX.

[AngelWings]

The reason the cadets have to meet the AF grooming standard for any uniform is they do not have the h/w standard to meet until they're 18. At which time, if they wish to become furry, they can come over to the dark side. The AF is not going to loosen the standard just for our cadets. We have enough problems with some cadets meeting a fairly simple hair standard. It'd get a whole lot worse if you loosen the standard. It's really easy to see when the hair is touching or over the ears or the collar without resorting to a ruler to determine compliance.

A good point I didn't consider.

Price is about right for the DSCP issue one via CGEX.

Exactly where I got mine.

[Panache]

BBDUs with an some updates to them. Dark blue tapes like the ones that have been shown on the ABUs, less patches (remove activity/NCSA patches, squadron and wing patches)

Apparently navy blue background for name tapes and grade insignia will be in the new 39-1, or so I've heard here.

Activity and NCSA patches are pretty much optional as is.  Less so Squadron and Wing patches, which are "optional" in it's up to the Wing CC, which the majority choose to mandate wear.

[Shuman 14]

BDUs are starting to run out

Cite, please.

Half a dozen posters on this site have said it.

Haven't seen BDUs in a PX/BX/NEX in a long time either.

[RiverAux]

The options are not mutually exclusive. 

The AF could allow all of us in ABUs -- just prohibit the fat and fuzzies from wearing rank, which was how it was done in the old days.
Since the ABU will have absolutely nothing on it identifying it with the Air Force, besides the basic pattern (which no one outside the military could identify as belonging to the AF anyway), there is no possibility of some 18 year accidentally causing the world to come to an end by saluting a 350 pound CAP member. 

[68w20]

BDUs are starting to run out

Cite, please.

Half a dozen posters on this site have said it.

Haven't seen BDUs in a PX/BX/NEX in a long time either.

http://tinyurl.com/7mckrqw

http://tinyurl.com/nhs494b

http://tinyurl.com/mxc2kza

BDUs aren't magically disappearing because the military is no longer using them exclusively.  They're still available from the same sources they always have been, and at the same prices most members have already been paying.  We've covered this, extensively.  Please stop pretending ignorance, and move on.

Edited for punctuation

[SarDragon]

Those prices are comparable with what I paid 10 years ago in a military exchange.