Why no BDU boonie hat

[cap123]

If the blue boonie hat is authorized for the blue uniform, why no BDU boonie for the BDUs? If I work on a flight line I am not permitted to wear a cover per my IC. The issue is I get sun burn on my head and have sores from scratching. The boonie would protect my head and ears a bit and also has the chin strap.

[RogueLeader]

Because the Air Force, who controls our uniforms said in absolutely clear terms: No!!!

[vento]

This is the reason I wear the BBDU instead of the BDU. The boonie hat simply work much better.

[Майор Хаткевич]

If the blue boonie hat is authorized for the blue uniform, why no BDU boonie for the BDUs? If I work on a flight line I am not permitted to wear a cover per my IC. The issue is I get sun burn on my head and have sores from scratching. The boonie would protect my head and ears a bit and also has the chin strap.

...and still wouldn't be allowed on the flight line.

[RogueLeader]

At NBB, we wore our regular Patrol Caps, on the flightline.

[Майор Хаткевич]

At NBB, we wore our regular Patrol Caps, on the flightline.

I'm just saying, if his IC tells him to take hat/cap/boonie on the flight line, he does it.

[PHall]

At NBB, we wore our regular Patrol Caps, on the flightline.

I'm just saying, if his IC tells him to take hat/cap/boonie on the flight line, he does it.

Actually, it's the "owner" of said flightline that determines if hats are worn on the flightline or not.
The IC can say whatever they want, but if the Airport Manager says no hats then that's it, no hats.

[Майор Хаткевич]

At NBB, we wore our regular Patrol Caps, on the flightline.

I'm just saying, if his IC tells him to take hat/cap/boonie on the flight line, he does it.

Actually, it's the "owner" of said flightline that determines if hats are worn on the flightline or not.
The IC can say whatever they want, but if the Airport Manager says no hats then that's it, no hats.

And after splitting some more hairs...looks like the point stands. Boonie or no boonie, it doesn't matter when head-covering-devices are forbidden.

[lordmonar]

If the blue boonie hat is authorized for the blue uniform, why no BDU boonie for the BDUs? If I work on a flight line I am not permitted to wear a cover per my IC. The issue is I get sun burn on my head and have sores from scratching. The boonie would protect my head and ears a bit and also has the chin strap.

...and still wouldn't be allowed on the flight line.

How so?

[Майор Хаткевич]

If the blue boonie hat is authorized for the blue uniform, why no BDU boonie for the BDUs? If I work on a flight line I am not permitted to wear a cover per my IC. The issue is I get sun burn on my head and have sores from scratching. The boonie would protect my head and ears a bit and also has the chin strap.

...and still wouldn't be allowed on the flight line.

How so?

If I work on a flight line I am not permitted to wear a cover per my IC

How would the boonie change that OP statement.

[LegacyAirman]

I think there was some similar discussion here: http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=14798.0.

[Mitchell 1969]

At NBB, we wore our regular Patrol Caps, on the flightline.

I'm just saying, if his IC tells him to take hat/cap/boonie on the flight line, he does it.

Actually, it's the "owner" of said flightline that determines if hats are worn on the flightline or not.
The IC can say whatever they want, but if the Airport Manager says no hats then that's it, no hats.

I wish I had a dollar for every hat/cap that will be worn on flight line, ramps and gate areas at LAX today.

[PHall]

At NBB, we wore our regular Patrol Caps, on the flightline.

I'm just saying, if his IC tells him to take hat/cap/boonie on the flight line, he does it.

Actually, it's the "owner" of said flightline that determines if hats are worn on the flightline or not.
The IC can say whatever they want, but if the Airport Manager says no hats then that's it, no hats.

I wish I had a dollar for every hat/cap that will be worn on flight line, ramps and gate areas at LAX today.

That's because the Airport Manager at LAX allows hats to be worn on "their" flightline.  This seems to be the norm at most large airports.

[Mitchell 1969]

At NBB, we wore our regular Patrol Caps, on the flightline.

I'm just saying, if his IC tells him to take hat/cap/boonie on the flight line, he does it.

Actually, it's the "owner" of said flightline that determines if hats are worn on the flightline or not.
The IC can say whatever they want, but if the Airport Manager says no hats then that's it, no hats.

I wish I had a dollar for every hat/cap that will be worn on flight line, ramps and gate areas at LAX today.

That's because the Airport Manager at LAX allows hats to be worn on "their" flightline.  This seems to be the norm at most large airports.

Actually, I'd be shocked if any of the airport managers I have known at LAX over the last 30+ years ever gave the subject even 5 seconds worth of thought or made any decisions about it whatsoever. It was simply never an issue.

[a2capt]

Covers on the flightline are typically done in areas where the only ones on the flightline are pilots walking to mostly high performance aircraft, and ground crews that work up close with said aircraft.

Fits the description of most military flightlines, doesn't it?

The flight cap isn't very good at staying on, has no inbuilt security function, etc.

Most of all, the natural tendency to run after something that falls, drops, etc. is eliminated if there is no hat to fall off, and get blown down the ramp, that suddenly becomes the focal point of the owner and they go after it, right out in front of that fuel truck on the way to the aircraft the were walking to.

But at the end of the day, it's simply policy down to whoever operates that area of operation, and if they say "no hats", then it's No Hats.

If they say "we permit Hello Kitty boonies, sombreros and giraffe hats." then we'er still not wearing them if we're in uniform because that would be .. out of uniform. Wouldn't it?

[Майор Хаткевич]

At NBB, we wore our regular Patrol Caps, on the flightline.

I'm just saying, if his IC tells him to take hat/cap/boonie on the flight line, he does it.

Actually, it's the "owner" of said flightline that determines if hats are worn on the flightline or not.
The IC can say whatever they want, but if the Airport Manager says no hats then that's it, no hats.

I wish I had a dollar for every hat/cap that will be worn on flight line, ramps and gate areas at LAX today.

That's because the Airport Manager at LAX allows hats to be worn on "their" flightline.  This seems to be the norm at most large airports.

Actually, I'd be shocked if any of the airport managers I have known at LAX over the last 30+ years ever gave the subject even 5 seconds worth of thought or made any decisions about it whatsoever. It was simply never an issue.

You really like irrelevant and inconsequential points, don't you?

[Critical AOA]

You really like irrelevant and inconsequential points, don't you?

Isn't that a requirement to participate on CT?   

[PHall]

At NBB, we wore our regular Patrol Caps, on the flightline.

I'm just saying, if his IC tells him to take hat/cap/boonie on the flight line, he does it.

Actually, it's the "owner" of said flightline that determines if hats are worn on the flightline or not.
The IC can say whatever they want, but if the Airport Manager says no hats then that's it, no hats.

I wish I had a dollar for every hat/cap that will be worn on flight line, ramps and gate areas at LAX today.

That's because the Airport Manager at LAX allows hats to be worn on "their" flightline.  This seems to be the norm at most large airports.

Actually, I'd be shocked if any of the airport managers I have known at LAX over the last 30+ years ever gave the subject even 5 seconds worth of thought or made any decisions about it whatsoever. It was simply never an issue.

You really like irrelevant and inconsequential points, don't you?

He's the Retired Chief of Police for LAX, so he might know a thing or two about the inner workings of LAX.

[Майор Хаткевич]

And still adds no relevance to the OP.

[SarDragon]

Just wow!

Having worked a flight line or two in my time, and having closely observed operations at others, I'm going to present some of those observations regarding hats.

There are vastly different styles of flight line/ramp areas: LAX, and other commercial airports, is one; military bases are another; aircraft carriers, not really germane, but a different example; GA airports, our primary focus.

LAX and other commercial airfields are huge sprawling areas, with the workers concentrated in the areas close to the gates. The planes are large, and there's little need for anyone to be close to running engines. Marshaling is at a minimum, since departing aircraft are pushed out with tugs. Incoming planes present few problems, since the wing walkers are well away from the engines. Op(erational) tempo is high, so situational awareness at a higher level. Hats don't seem to be much of a potential problem.

Military bases, for the most part, have smaller planes, in a much larger concentration. The ramp personnel are much closer to the aircraft, and in more immediate danger. Op tempo is similar. Hats have a much higher potential for being problems.

GA airports are our main focus.. We have a bunch of little airplanes, operated by a group of pilots and ground folks with wildly different experience, and varying levels of professionalism. Some of the potential dangers have been noted already. Propellers present their own hazards. Op tempo is erratic, going from back and forth from busy to dead, at uneven intervals.

Not having headgear on CAP flightline, given the specific conditions, is an excellent idea. I can't really see what all the angst is all about.

[Eclipse]

When the planes are around, stow your cap, when they are gone, which will, in most circumstances be the entire day (except for airshows, etc.), put it back on.

If you want to wear your grandmother's gardening hat, whatever - the problem comes in because
members don't understand the difference between a piece of field gear and something meant for wear during normal duty, in formation etc.  This is why we have cadets showing up with plates carriers to encampment, wearing their pancakes during GT missions, etc., etc.

Boonies look dumb, serve little purpose the way CAP members would need them, and are just another affectation of watching Vietnam movies, but whatever.  Be different, then wonder why we have cohesion and appearance issues.

[billford1]

When the planes are around, stow your cap, when they are gone, which will, in most circumstances be the entire day (except for airshows, etc.), put it back on.

If you want to wear your grandmother's gardening hat, whatever - the problem comes in because
members don't understand the difference between a piece of field gear and something meant for wear during normal duty, in formation etc.  This is why we have cadets showing up with plates carriers to encampment, wearing their pancakes during GT missions, etc., etc.

Boonies look dumb, serve little purpose the way CAP members would need them, and are just another affectation of watching Vietnam movies, but whatever.  Be different, then wonder why we have cohesion and appearance issues.

I agree the boonie hats don't look too swift but they do offer some sunburn protection.

[PHall]

When the planes are around, stow your cap, when they are gone, which will, in most circumstances be the entire day (except for airshows, etc.), put it back on.

If you want to wear your grandmother's gardening hat, whatever - the problem comes in because
members don't understand the difference between a piece of field gear and something meant for wear during normal duty, in formation etc.  This is why we have cadets showing up with plates carriers to encampment, wearing their pancakes during GT missions, etc., etc.

Boonies look dumb, serve little purpose the way CAP members would need them, and are just another affectation of watching Vietnam movies, but whatever.  Be different, then wonder why we have cohesion and appearance issues.

I agree the boonie hats don't look too swift but they do offer some sunburn protection.

So does a knit cap. Wanna wear one of those in the summer?

[Garibaldi]

When the planes are around, stow your cap, when they are gone, which will, in most circumstances be the entire day (except for airshows, etc.), put it back on.

If you want to wear your grandmother's gardening hat, whatever - the problem comes in because
members don't understand the difference between a piece of field gear and something meant for wear during normal duty, in formation etc.  This is why we have cadets showing up with plates carriers to encampment, wearing their pancakes during GT missions, etc., etc.

Boonies look dumb, serve little purpose the way CAP members would need them, and are just another affectation of watching Vietnam movies, but whatever.  Be different, then wonder why we have cohesion and appearance issues.

I agree the boonie hats don't look too swift but they do offer some sunburn protection.

And a little rain protection. I have one I use in the field when we train. I also have a white hard hat, a pseudo-Kevlar and goggles. Yes, it may seem tac-ti-kewl, but I go with what works. I don't get questioned about what I wear when I produce results. And no, I don't wear them outside of unit training.

[Hawk200]

Boonies look dumb, serve little purpose the way CAP members would need them, and are just another affectation of watching Vietnam movies, but whatever.  Be different, then wonder why we have cohesion and appearance issues.

I used to hate boonies. Didn't see the point, they were stupid looking, didn't seem like they would do anything more than a PC(patrol cap) and sunscreen. Never bothered with them, wasn't gonna pay any money for them, and if I did have to have one as part of a uniform issue, I wouldn't wear it.

Then I mobilized. Had pre-mob at Sill. I was issued a boonie, but it stayed in my locker. Wore my PC when it was allowed, tried sunscreen when I couldn't wear the hat. Didn't get the right sunscreen for me, was burned within three days. Commander saw me with my sunburn, asked why I didn't wear my boonie, it was authorized on the flightline as long as the strap was under my chin. Said I didn't particularly care for the boonie, thought it looked stupid. He said that he didn't want to see me at medical with severe sunburn; a boonie was a lot easier than sunscreen, told me to wear it the next day, asked me if I understood. Said "Yes, sir. Will wear it tomorrow." He said alright, left me to my work.

The next day, I wore it. Didn't have much more sunscreen, used it on my arms and wore the boonie. Sunburn felt better. Even better the next day. Still thought it looked stupid, but it was a lot easier than putting sunscreen on my head, and it seemed to work. Continued wearing it on the flightline (as ordered,) and really started to appreciate it.

It really showed how effective it was when I got to the sandbox. No muss, no fuss. Was even handy when it was raining. We were allowed to wear it with PT's during the day, so I did that too. Bought three more of them, because I wasn't gonna give one up for the three days it took for it to come back from laundry. The next time I wore a PC was when we were ordered to do so, since we were going home soon. I wore the PC in formation, but put the boonie back on after.

A couple of years ago, there was something about allowing them for CAP GT's, but it had to be orange. Personally, I wouldn't have cared about the color. I'd wear it when it was legal to do so. Boonies are handy. To some they're an affectation, and that's the wrong reason to wear it. If you're doing it for the reason it was made, you're good.

However, if it hasn't been authorized for us, it's not authorized. Period. Until it is, we need to dismiss the thought, and get back on the job.

[abdsp51]

I wore a boonie for all of my deployments when I was allowed.  Kept the sun off of me and felt much better than the PC ever did.  It has its functionality and purpose but currently is not authorized and we can go back and forth about hats being allowed on a flt line till the cows come home.  Hell even working a flt line as a cop when I was conducting business I wore it when I wasn't it was off.  At the end of the day its whomever's call as to what is allowed or not on the ramp. If the OP is worried about a sun burn use sunscreen, where what you are told to or stay inside.

[SarDragon]

When the planes are around, stow your cap, when they are gone, which will, in most circumstances be the entire day (except for airshows, etc.), put it back on.

If you want to wear your grandmother's gardening hat, whatever - the problem comes in because
members don't understand the difference between a piece of field gear and something meant for wear during normal duty, in formation etc.  This is why we have cadets showing up with plates carriers to encampment, wearing their pancakes during GT missions, etc., etc.

Boonies look dumb, serve little purpose the way CAP members would need them, and are just another affectation of watching Vietnam movies, but whatever.  Be different, then wonder why we have cohesion and appearance issues.

I agree the boonie hats don't look too swift but they do offer some sunburn protection.

I gotta disagree. I wore one outside last weekend at a civilian gig, and all the hat did was give me a goofier than usual sunburn. My forehead was mostly saved, but my ears and neck still took a hit. This was in a grassy area, so ground reflection was not a factor.

[Hawk200]

When the planes are around, stow your cap, when they are gone, which will, in most circumstances be the entire day (except for airshows, etc.), put it back on.

If you want to wear your grandmother's gardening hat, whatever - the problem comes in because
members don't understand the difference between a piece of field gear and something meant for wear during normal duty, in formation etc.  This is why we have cadets showing up with plates carriers to encampment, wearing their pancakes during GT missions, etc., etc.

Boonies look dumb, serve little purpose the way CAP members would need them, and are just another affectation of watching Vietnam movies, but whatever.  Be different, then wonder why we have cohesion and appearance issues.

I agree the boonie hats don't look too swift but they do offer some sunburn protection.

I gotta disagree. I wore one outside last weekend at a civilian gig, and all the hat did was give me a goofier than usual sunburn. My forehead was mostly saved, but my ears and neck still took a hit. This was in a grassy area, so ground reflection was not a factor.

So you're one of those that wears the sides up in that "fashionable" look, and suffered the consequences. Wear it right next time, you won't have to worry about your ears. Neck should have been OK if the brim was properly sized.

[AngelWings]

What Hawk200 said. They're only practical when worn correctly.

[Eclipse]

14 some years teaching motorcycle safety, just wearing regular baseball caps.  It's usually 80+ in direct sun with black asphalt
below you.

Never had an issue with sunburned ears, a little sunscreen goes a long way.

I've had those Laurence of Arabia style hats with a neck flap, and a separate neck flap for any hat.  Just makes
my neck hotter.

[SarDragon]

No sides up. It's a standard green tag boonie hat. Not sure how I could wear it wrong.

[Mitchell 1969]

At NBB, we wore our regular Patrol Caps, on the flightline.

I'm just saying, if his IC tells him to take hat/cap/boonie on the flight line, he does it.

Actually, it's the "owner" of said flightline that determines if hats are worn on the flightline or not.
The IC can say whatever they want, but if the Airport Manager says no hats then that's it, no hats.

I wish I had a dollar for every hat/cap that will be worn on flight line, ramps and gate areas at LAX today.

That's because the Airport Manager at LAX allows hats to be worn on "their" flightline.  This seems to be the norm at most large airports.

Actually, I'd be shocked if any of the airport managers I have known at LAX over the last 30+ years ever gave the subject even 5 seconds worth of thought or made any decisions about it whatsoever. It was simply never an issue.

You really like irrelevant and inconsequential points, don't you?

Admittedly, not relevant to the OP.  But relevant to the thread segue re: hats/caps on flight lines. Over the years, I have encountered lectures, shrieks, condescending pronouncements and [darn] near been called a heretic because I've questioned the "it's in the regulations" or "safety rules require" sacrosanct dogma of  "no covers (sic) on the flight line!"   So, I am glad for the opportunity to reinforce the idea that there really is no "one size fits all" rule.  It all depends on WHICH flight line, WHOSE flight line, WHAT type of aircraft and aircraft movements, WHERE and WHEN.

[Critical AOA]

In my 30+ years of aviation maintenance, I have worn hats on military flight lines, GA flight lines and on large commercial airports such as LAX, SFO, ORD & IND.  I have worn them around everything from Cessna 150s to Boeing 747s as well as a variety of Army and civilian helicopters.  I have never had a hat create an issue. It all comes down to situational awareness, i.e. knowing when to stow it.  If you don't have the sense, stay on the other side of the fence.

[Pingree1492]

I LOVED my boonie hat during deployment.  It was one of the two hats allowed on the flight line (the other was the fleece cap during the winter).  I always stayed markedly cooler with the hat on, and it stayed on my head even when I walked in and out of the rotor disk on a UH-60 Blackhawk.  I see no reason why they couldn't be worn safely on GA flightlines.  I may end up investing in the BBDU after I ETS just to be able to wear the boonie again.  Especially if CAP does end up adopting the ABU's. 

[Blackhawk]

I LOVED my boonie hat during deployment.  It was one of the two hats allowed on the flight line (the other was the fleece cap during the winter).  I always stayed markedly cooler with the hat on, and it stayed on my head even when I walked in and out of the rotor disk on a UH-60 Blackhawk.  I see no reason why they couldn't be worn safely on GA flightlines.  I may end up investing in the BBDU after I ETS just to be able to wear the boonie again.  Especially if CAP does end up adopting the ABU's.

:clap:

Agreed, Boonie is the bomb! Saved me during deployments!

[AlphaSigOU]

Because the Air Force, who controls our uniforms said in absolutely clear terms: No!!!

Needs to be emphasized...

No!

[RogueLeader]

Because the Air Force, who controls our uniforms said in absolutely clear terms: No!!!

Needs to be emphasized...

No!

You mean like this?

NO!!!!!

[Panache]

Because the Air Force, who controls our uniforms said in absolutely clear terms: No!!!

Needs to be emphasized...

No!

You mean like this?

NO!!!!!

I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say here.  Can you please clarify?

[C/Awesomenesss]

Because the Air Force, who controls our uniforms said in absolutely clear terms: No!!!

Needs to be emphasized...

No!

You mean like this?

NO!!!!!

I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say here.  Can you please clarify?

Yes, if I may,


NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Im done

[RogueLeader]

Because the Air Force, who controls our uniforms said in absolutely clear terms: No!!!

Needs to be emphasized...

No!

You mean like this?

NO!!!!!

I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say here.  Can you please clarify?

no.   Linky