Lack of ES response

[754837]

One evening in a severe thunderstorm with tornados occurred during the Wing Commander's monthly staff meeting.  The storm caused some deaths, many injuries and significant damage just off the military base where the staff meeting was being held. I was a squadron commander but due to work issues I was not able to attend that night but two of our senior members did attend.  Wisely, the wing staff took refuge until the "all clear" was sounded.  Once the all clear was received, the staff members left the base and returned to their respective homes. There was no CAP emergency response.

At a later date, I questioned the lack of response.  I do not remember all of the reasons but they sounded to me, at the very best, weak, and at the worst, cowardly.  One reason given was that the staff members were wearing blues rather than an appropriate ES uniform.  Another was that they were ill equipped for an ES response.  The wing supply depot was within a couple minute walk from the meeting location.  My two members left the base, drove through the disaster area on their way back to our community that was not impacted by the storm.  Yes, I was very critical of my own members.  One of them was a MD and both are dear friends of 25+ years.

I am intentionally being vague about the where & the when because first, it does not matter and second, the lack of response weakened some long standing friendships.  This incident is what shattered my opinion of CAP's EM mission.  I guess I am still struggling with my squadron and my wing's total lack of response to a huge emergency that happened less than a mile from our HQ.  I am not trying to start an argument – I am trying to understand. 

[Major Lord]

Rule number 1 in ES: We do not self-dispatch to missions! We are assigned missions. If you go off on your own, you are just that; On your own. Unless they were assigned a mission, they should not undertake a mission on their own authority. This would/should not stop people from pitching in, in the event of a disaster, but they are acting as private citizens. CAP is not trained or equipped for disaster recovery, its not our gig, although many ( as I do)  feel that it should.

Major Lord

[jeders]

CAP does not self-deploy, period.  Just because an emergency happens in our own back yard doesn't mean we can just go in and start doing stuff. In order for CAP to have responded, they must have been requested. This is where working with the local and state EMAs is important, so that when something happens, CAP will get the call. Now, any member of CAP could have gone to the disaster area and volunteered as a member of the community, but it would not have been done as a part of CAP.

One thing that you must remember, CAP is not a first responder agency. We are at very best a secondary or even tertiary response agency.

[754837]

Understood & thanks.

I would have thought that the wing leadership would have had the relationships in place so that the call would be placed.

CAP members are far better trained and managed than typical private citizens.  It is a waste of good talent to not to use CAP assets.  I wonder if we have become entanged in a bureaucracy that reduces our effectiveness.  Red Cross gets their volunteer boots on the ground very quickly.

I also think my personal definition of "emergency services" is not inline with CAP.

I appreciate your replies and it was nice that you did not bust my chops!   

[Eclipse]

There was no CAP emergency response.

What "response" would you have expected or like to have seen?

For A&B missions, the AFRCC has very specific rules regarding when or if they can respond, and number one on that list is that
there must be evidence of imminent risk of life.  The second one is that, by law, in most cases, requests for assistance must come from or through
the State's designated Emergency Management Agency.

C-level and DR missions fall under corporate guidelines, which go through the NOC, but still have rules about requester, funding, and similar.
We can provide a significant amount of help, but those relationships have to be in place before the disaster occurs.  Most Agencies don't have time
to respond to "we can help" calls while they are digging out their own EOC's.

Tornado, storms, and similar weather events, tend to be short-lived, heavy damage events that can severally impact the area they effect, but
those areas are usually contained to a small area, and outside those hurt or killed immediately, do not live past the practical response threshold
of the AFRCC or CAP.  A situation where a subdivision is devastated, but no one is missing or in imminent harm is a tragic, but non-emergency situation
we can help with, but a campground with a bunch of people scattered and lost would certainly be in our lane if we're asked to help.

Further, if it happened a mile from your HQ, you may have been considered "effected", so even if your wing was involved, your people may well have been told to stand down for safety and CISM reasons.

I can't imagine why you would have been critical of anyone.  Was there a critical shortage of other agencies responding?  Any announcement to the public regarding a call for more help?  The average GP/MD isn't equipped to be doing house-to-house triage in a disaster, and is likely to be as
much a liability as an asset.

We are lucky enough to live in a country that has a robust infrastructure and system for dealing with disasters, and CAP has a role it plays every day.
If you want to be involved in disaster response in a more immediate,  or different way, CAP may not be for you, but that doesn't mean CAP is
performing its mission or is somehow failing.

We do what we do, and if what we "do" isn't needed that day, we stay home.

[NCRblues]

isn't needed that day, we stay home.

I think one of the major issues many members see (cadet and SM alike) is that we are staying home 99.9% of the time now.

A recent example is the Joplin Mo tornado of last year. Over the TV as far away as Hannibal Mo the state was calling for ANYONE with any emergency services background. They needed roads blocked off, tents set up, water distributed to rubble search teams and many more simple items that CAP can and SHOULD be doing during these times. One of the biggest requests and needs was to expand on their ability to communicate. The EMA's radio set up was overwhelmed and they could not keep in contact with all of the teams in the field. What a better way for CAP to help then to set up a radio net for the EMA?

Yet even with the state and county and city begging over open news, CAP in Missouri and Kansas Oklahoma (the city is right next to the border) never got asked or called. Now im sure you are going to say that is MO wings fault for not having the contacts. And I agree to a certain extent, but I also feel that it is CAPs overall fault with the lack of consistent guidance on how to contact and maintain a healthy relationship with "local" authority. CAP seems to think grand of it self, but never tells anyone outside CAP about what we can do.

I just feel that ES response in general is slipping away for more reasons than one.

[Eclipse]

SM alike) is that we are staying home 99.9% of the time now.

Well, for better or worse, 99% of the time what is needed isn't what we do.  Fireman do not respond to riots just because the police are overwhelmed, and LEO's don't grab turnout gear when fires get out of hand.

I think one of the major issues many members see (cadet and
A recent example is the Joplin Mo tornado of last year. Over the TV as far away as Hannibal Mo the state was calling for ANYONE with any emergency services background. They needed roads blocked off, tents set up, water distributed to rubble search teams and many more simple items that CAP can and SHOULD be doing during these times.

Legitimate agencies are required by law to have response and escalation plans, and those generally do not include getting on television and
asking for help from anyone, at least not in the US.

If your wing has a capability that could have met the need, then since that Tornado they should have been leveraging that need into MOUs and other agreements so that next time they make the calls.

There's a system and a process to the requests, and it's all well and good when you're hip-deep in water to not care who comes to pull you out,
then later you're suing everyone in sight because they left your shoes in the mud or didn't rescue your cat, etc.

Those "all-hands" call-outs are for the local people to help themselves, CERT teams to stand up, and the local agencies to start shutting down their PC's
and going home early from work.

As to "guidance", I'm not sure what more is needed from NHQ.

We all know who you call.

We all know who is supposed to pay for what and when.

We know our own local capabilities, response times, and sustainability.

If you don't know those three things, then you have work to do internally.  When you do know those three things, then you
start an expanding square at the unit level and start calling townships, agencies, EMA's and others to connect with their
EM planners and get on the call lists - this last part is the one that takes effort and perseverance, and usually ends when
a unit ESO leaves a voice mail with a busy EM chief and then waits for a call back.

[754837]

Let me change the scenario just a bit:  In this fictitious situation, the storm did not occur just outside of Wing HQ during a Wing Staff meeting, it happened outside of my squadron HQ during a squadron meeting.  We would have notified, or attempted to notify Wing what was going on and that we were assisting.  We would notify or attempt to notify PD or FD.    We would have gathered up the resources at hand and jumped in to help to the best of our ability.  We would render first aid,  help move people to a safer place (i.e. help them out of the street, out of standing water, away from hazards etc.). In short, we would have done what we could to help those that we could while safeguarding our members.  The idea of not showing up to the dance until you get an invitation is, in my opinion, weak, especially when you are looking at the dance floor.  Maybe this would be against regulations (and I would not fight a 2b action)  but I would be able to sleep at night.  A situation like this overwhelms fire departments, law enforcement and emergency management.

When I was a cadet in the 70's, several times a year we would go on what was then called REDCAP missions looking for lost aircraft.  With technology today, the need for this emergency service has been greatly reduced.  If we want to have an emergency service mission, we need to provide an emergency service. 

[bflynn]

Over the TV as far away as Hannibal Mo the state was calling for ANYONE with any emergency services background. They needed roads blocked off, tents set up, water distributed to rubble search teams and many more simple items that CAP can and SHOULD be doing during these times.

I think it's a stretch to say that the Civil Air Patrol should be blocking off roads, setting up tents or distributing water to search teams.  There are dozens of organizations that do that, possibly hundreds of them.  There is one civil service organization that can fly an airplane over a disaster scene and do what needs to be done.  CAP should focus what makes us unique.

If disaster relief is the direction that CAP is heading, I'm less than interested, I'm opposed to it.

[754837]

Over the TV as far away as Hannibal Mo the state was calling for ANYONE with any emergency services background. They needed roads blocked off, tents set up, water distributed to rubble search teams and many more simple items that CAP can and SHOULD be doing during these times.

I think it's a stretch to say that the Civil Air Patrol should be blocking off roads, setting up tents or distributing water to search teams.  There are dozens of organizations that do that, possibly hundreds of them.  There is one civil service organization that can fly an airplane over a disaster scene and do what needs to be done.  CAP should focus what makes us unique.

If disaster relief is the direction that CAP is heading, I'm less than interested, I'm opposed to it.

Before I share my opinion, I will disclose that I am a pilot!  CAP is not the only organizaiton that can fly an airplane over a disaster scene and do what needs to be done.  USCGA has that capability as do many law enforcement agencies.  I am not a law enforcement pilot but in my opinion, they are some of the finest pilots.  Where I live, the LE agencies and the National Guard provide these services as well - promptly, quickly, professionally, with a lot less paper work. 

[Eclipse]

The invitation is the nature of the best, and as I said ES doctrine, in a lot of cases, restricts responders in the affected areas from doing anything but
taking care of themselves.

Without the invitation we have no expectation of funding, indemnification, nor even a legitimate presence.  Without that we're just vigilantes, and vigilantes
make for great t-shirts and movies and non-so-great ideas in real life.

You can find me 100 stories where some guy showed up and "just did it", and I can show you a hundred pictures of whackers with 10K of lights on their truck and no idea what they are doing.

We are part of a federalized, professionalized resource, that means we get access to a lot of things smaller groups don't, but also means we don't get access to things smaller groups do all the time.  We had a huge flooding event earlier this year in my wing.  Big response from state agencies, nothing from CAP on a federal level because the types of help needed weren't in our wheelhouse.

If you want to be called when the sirens are still going off, then you need to join up with a local agency that is a first responder.

[Eclipse]

B the LE agencies and the National Guard provide these services as well - promptly, quickly, professionally, with a lot less paper work.

No.  There's less paper that day.

LE can go wherever they want in their jurisdiction, because they are LE - a first responder agency, and one which is likely fully funded with people on call and on site when the sirens go off.

I can't speak to the USCGAux, other than to say that the they are legally tasked as part of the USCG with maritime, shoreline, and waterway SAR, and they also have LE powers, which means they too have more latitude and no Posse-Com issues to their response.   They've got plenty of paper, too, and I can tell you that the USCGAux has a much smaller presence inland in most places of the US than CAP.

[754837]

Based on this logic, you would drive around a car crash rather than to stop and render aid.  The scenario I gave, and lived, was an emergency that was basically happening right in front of you.  I am not suggesting that we jump fire/ems/police calls.  I am a career LEO with 25+ years of full time, paid service &  I don't like call jumpers!

I don't mean to sound harsh but I have more respect for someone that is trying to help and make a difference than for one that sits back and makes excuses for inaction.  Here we had a trained group of emergency services people that did not participate when a)needed and b) when the event was in their own yard.

[bflynn]

Over the TV as far away as Hannibal Mo the state was calling for ANYONE with any emergency services background. They needed roads blocked off, tents set up, water distributed to rubble search teams and many more simple items that CAP can and SHOULD be doing during these times.

I think it's a stretch to say that the Civil Air Patrol should be blocking off roads, setting up tents or distributing water to search teams.  There are dozens of organizations that do that, possibly hundreds of them.  There is one civil service organization that can fly an airplane over a disaster scene and do what needs to be done.  CAP should focus what makes us unique.

If disaster relief is the direction that CAP is heading, I'm less than interested, I'm opposed to it.

Before I share my opinion, I will disclose that I am a pilot!  CAP is not the only organizaiton that can fly an airplane over a disaster scene and do what needs to be done.  USCGA has that capability as do many law enforcement agencies.  I am not a law enforcement pilot but in my opinion, they are some of the finest pilots.  Where I live, the LE agencies and the National Guard provide these services as well - promptly, quickly, professionally, with a lot less paper work.

Ok, you're right - the CG Aux flies planes too, but I think their focus is still supporting the regular CG, not supporting civil authorities?  Law enforcement agencies are civil volunteers, they are professionals.  As such, they have priorities already.  That may or may not include supporting EM officials during a disaster.

CAP is the only civil service organization focused on using airplanes to serve our communties.  It's what we do.  If it ever becomes what we don't do, we'll have lost something major.  We seem to be doing less and less flying and more and more non-flying service.

BTW, I'm a pilot too.

[754837]

I did not want you to think I am anti-pilot!

[jeders]

Based on this logic, you would drive around a car crash rather than to stop and render aid.  The scenario I gave, and lived, was an emergency that was basically happening right in front of you.  I am not suggesting that we jump fire/ems/police calls.  I am a career LEO with 25+ years of full time, paid service &  I don't like call jumpers!

Once again, if you are trained and capable of helping others in that situation, then go right ahead. But it won't be a part of a CAP response and you will have no CAP coverage should something bad happen to you. Personally, I would render what aid I could at a car crash right up until the real first responders arrived and then I'd be gone. But acting as a member of CAP, there is nothing I can do at a crash scene other than call 911.

CAP is the only civil service organization focused on using airplanes to serve our communties.  It's part ofwhat we do.  If it ever becomes what we don't do, we'll have lost something major.  We seem to be doing less and less flying and more and more non-flying service.

Emphasis mine. I always love the attitude of some pilots that think it is somehow beneath this organization for anyone to put boots on the ground. They forget that only a small portion of our membership are actually pilots.

[Eclipse]

Based on this logic, you would drive around a car crash rather than to stop and render aid.

No, as a private citizen I would render any aid I was capable of, as were you and your unit's people fully allowed to act in any way you wanted as
private citizens.  My go-box, 24 hour gear,  and other related equipment doesn't stop working just because I'm wearing shorts and a t-shirt, I just can't go representing CAP.

[Eclipse]

CAP is the only civil service organization focused on using airplanes to serve our communties.  It's part ofwhat we do.  If it ever becomes what we don't do, we'll have lost something major.  We seem to be doing less and less flying and more and more non-flying service.

Emphasis mine. I always love the attitude of some pilots that think it is somehow beneath this organization for anyone to put boots on the ground. They forget that only a small portion of our membership are actually pilots.[/quote]

+1 - CAP is not a "civil service organization", is not "focused" on the aircraft, and isn't the only game in town with regards to aircraft, either.
If anything, one of our biggest, unmarketed abilities is in SAR management, but we've got lots of other stuff going on, too.

[754837]

I just feel that ES response in general is slipping away for more reasons than one.

Agree 100%.

[RiverAux]

There is a very fine line that CAP members can walk between legitimately responding to an immediate event right in front of their faces and self-deploying to an event that they weren't invited to.  Hard to separate them in CAP policy. 

For example, in another thread the situation is discussed where some CAP members are getting CAP awards for responding to the crash of a vehicle into a hanger on the airport that they were meeting at.  In essence they self-deployed to that emergency and are getting an award for it.  Is that essentially different than the situation discussed in the original post?  Yes, but not by a whole lot.