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tarps and ponchos

Started by OhioShepherds, January 08, 2020, 08:41:03 PM

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OhioShepherds

Hello,
We are new to CAP and just getting our 24 hour packs put together.  Please recommend a tarp/poncho that is light weight and still durable.  Thank you! 

Gunsotsu

Standard USGI poncho. Cheap. Abundant. Versatile.

End thread.

Eclipse

Personally I would suggest raingear / shelter material that are separate pieces.

Using a poncho as a shelter sounds great on paper and doesn't generally work out that well,
and vice versa.

A cheap, small, light 1-man tent is fine for the shelter, get a tarp free at Harbor Freight, and
a decent rain suit and move on.  100% guarantee you'll wear the rainsuit on the reg, and use the shelter stuff once
or twice unless you go to NESA, and then they have all sorts of opinions on that stuff.

"That Others May Zoom"

Spam


Second the standard, US military poncho with grommets/eyelets that SNAP, the rationale being to allow a nice 2 man poncho shelter to be easily put up in five minutes or less. In temperate weather, its perfect.

See CAP GT task O-0001, and also sites like https://sofrep.com/gear/sere-survival-low-profile-poncho-shelter/

and
https://www.sportsmansguide.com/product/index/us-military-surplus-acu-poncho-new?a=1711981&_br_psugg_q=poncho

R/s
Spam



NIN

I haven't seen anybody wear a poncho in years.  Speaking from (a lot of) experience, yes, they're versatile, but usually for other than wet weather gear.  Poncho shelter, ground cloth, gear cover, etc. And yes, it can be wet weather gear and will go over your gear on your back, which is something few people think of.

Now that I think of it, perhaps my thoughts of the poncho as rain gear are jaded by the smell of the ones I drew from CIF. They always had this sickly sweet rotting animal smell, and you had to put this thing over your head and stand there while it rained with this smell wafting past your nose. Ugh.

I wouldn't want to rig a poncho shelter if there was rain in the forecast. Been there, done it, got soaking wet for my troubles anyway. Glad it was August and not October.

Those newer nylon ones ("newer" is relative... they started with the woodland colored ones in the 80s) I tend to avoid. If you can get the old-style rubber coated ones, those things are worth their weight.
Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
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PHall

I still have a poncho and poncho liner and still use them as a poncho sleeping bag in warm weather, but no way do I use it for rain protection!

monkey1911

Like others have said, a Poncho only makes a good hooch when the weather is mostly nice.... the more rain and wind the worse it is.

Take it from a former 11B..... get a nice single person backpacking tent for each bag and keep a 4-6 person tent stored in your vehicle.

Eclipse

So back to Spam's comment about GT O-0001

This: https://www.harborfreight.com/material-handling/tarps/8-ft-8-inch-x-11-ft-6-inch-all-purpose-weather-resistant-tarpaulin-2085.html



Directly meets the need and weighs nothing.  $7 but if you have the right coupon it might be free. (I was going to suggest the next smaller one,
but it's only 7'-11" x 9'-11, and we'll have 12 people tripping over themselves to argue it doesn't meet the mandate.)
Get some cheap tent stakes and wrap them inside (you'll thank me), and and you then use your paracord.


"That Others May Zoom"

Spam


These days, as a GBD/GTL SET, I think I might even sign that off...

The likelihood that you'll be deployed overnight in the field on an actual SAR/DR mission is vanishingly slim, these days, to be completely blunt.

Vr
Spam

OhioShepherds


xyzzy

Quote from: Spam on January 09, 2020, 10:01:56 PM

These days, as a GBD/GTL SET, I think I might even sign that off...

The likelihood that you'll be deployed overnight in the field on an actual SAR/DR mission is vanishingly slim, these days, to be completely blunt.

Vr
Spam

I'm from Vermont. In my area, I agree the chances of sending out a ground team with the intention that they stay in the field overnight is vanishingly slim. But it is recommended that everyone who goes a significant distance from a road be prepared to spend the night in case the plan for the day hike (or in our case, ground sortie) goes awry.

Spam

Quote from: xyzzy on January 17, 2020, 11:20:27 AM
Quote from: Spam on January 09, 2020, 10:01:56 PM

These days, as a GBD/GTL SET, I think I might even sign that off...

The likelihood that you'll be deployed overnight in the field on an actual SAR/DR mission is vanishingly slim, these days, to be completely blunt.

Vr
Spam

I'm from Vermont. In my area, I agree the chances of sending out a ground team with the intention that they stay in the field overnight is vanishingly slim. But it is recommended that everyone who goes a significant distance from a road be prepared to spend the night in case the plan for the day hike (or in our case, ground sortie) goes awry.

Yep, I grok all that. In about 37 years of being GT rated, with several hundred missions in NER, MER, SER, and NCR I can count five or so nights where I either tasked or personally led a team to spend the night on the mountain, but in all three they were awake and working tasks - not sleeping rough. In the two incidents where I had a team with trouble we extracted them, asap, both for the safety of the team as well as to preserve the search area per procedure. All my teams on actuals have slept in hangars, EOCs, the backs of vehicles and in tents next to the FBO, etc., not playing LRRP or Recon.

The incidence of CAP ground team SAR usage on actuals is in the process (I believe) of dropping off to insignificance, with a correspondingly rarer chance of need of equipping and training to individual field expedient shelters. Why am I willing to call for a radical update of the gear (and other) tasks? Because from a risk/impact analysis perspective, our VERY light technical SAR teams have a fairly significant entry cost for gear, and by sending teams to train and sleep in the rough (particularly with intent in bad weather) we are actually accepting more risk of training related mishaps that we would gain from any maintained proficiency in bad weather ops.

Shepherd here (the OP) is asking a good question about gear that he has to pay for. I think we should spend our money on gear which meets realistic, likely employment scenarios, based on customer requests not macho self image or outdated perceptions of missions as we did them in the 50s - 90s.

Makes me a bit sad to say it as an OG GTL, but on reflection as a working engineer in aerospace, the fact that our SAR business is changing and dwindling is a WIN. Its beyond time to adjust our TTPs and standards to reflect that.

V/r
Spam



Spam

Quote from: henryluc on September 17, 2021, 08:55:01 AMhere is the new site:- https://www.sportsmanfinder.com

Not seeing any ponchos on there (though they do have tarps and even a 20 buck shelter).

There is however a new production, olive drab, DoD style poncho listed again for like 35 bucks at:
https://www.sportsmansguide.com/product/index/brooklyn-armed-forces-enhanced-military-poncho-with-carrier-bag?a=2232868

Still recommend this type of government issue style poncho. Roll it up very tight w/stakes, pop it in your cheap day pack, good to go.  Two of them make a good, dry shelter, when properly sited and taut line rigged. Unlike some, I have seen ponchos in regular CAP use in wet weather all day ops, within the past couple of years, so the dual use thing is real...

R/s
Spam

Capt Thompson

Used to carry two military ponchos, one to use as rain gear, and the second as a tarp/shelter. In a pinch they could be snapped together to make a much larger hooch, or in colder weather a smaller hooch with a ground cloth. These days I carry a poncho and poncho liner to sleep in, back in the 90's I sewed a zipper into the liner so it functions as a sleeping bag, I have an 8x10 tarp for the shelter, and very lightweight raingear. I keep a few tent stakes and a 25 foot piece of paracord for a ridgeline rolled up with the tarp and I'm good to go.

The tarp is a lot larger than a poncho, which gives you more space, and many more configurations you can set up depending on the available space, terrain, weather etc. It's also much more durable than a nylon poncho, so it can be used to improvise a litter in a pinch. When your team stops for a meal or break, you can easily rig up a sun shade on hot days to give your team a break from the sun if shade isn't readily available, and you can throw one on the ground for everyone to sit on if the chiggers and ticks are particularly heavy in your area.

Quote from: Eclipse on January 09, 2020, 01:11:33 AM100% guarantee you'll wear the rainsuit on the reg, and use the shelter stuff once
or twice unless you go to NESA, and then they have all sorts of opinions on that stuff.

Just went to NESA in August, they weren't too picky as long as what you brought was big enough, and you could sleep comfortably under/in it. We were specifically forbidden to bring a tent and had about 20 mins to improvise a shelter that would keep us protected for the night. Pretty much everyone had a blue tarp, one student had one of those ultra lightweight backpacking tarps, and I saw one student with a poncho.
Capt Matt Thompson
Deputy Commander for Cadets, Historian, Public Affairs Officer

Mitchell - 31 OCT 98 (#44670) Earhart - 1 OCT 00 (#11401)

Jester

I would argue that shelter material is one of those items you shouldn't be heading into the woods without, regardless of the reason.

Spam

Quote from: Capt Thompson on September 17, 2021, 01:50:13 PM... and I saw one student with a poncho.

... who was probably my youngest son, in the Advanced course. LOL. He did first session because school started on Monday 2 August, in the middle of NESA this year.

OG GT, yo!

Cheers,
Spam

Capt Thompson

Quote from: Spam on September 17, 2021, 02:46:59 PM
Quote from: Capt Thompson on September 17, 2021, 01:50:13 PM... and I saw one student with a poncho.

... who was probably my youngest son, in the Advanced course. LOL. He did first session because school started on Monday 2 August, in the middle of NESA this year.

OG GT, yo!

Cheers,
Spam

I was second session this year, finally went and finished up GTL. Definitely saw a lot of interesting shelter configurations, some looked pretty solid, and others probably wouldn't withstand a light breeze.
Capt Matt Thompson
Deputy Commander for Cadets, Historian, Public Affairs Officer

Mitchell - 31 OCT 98 (#44670) Earhart - 1 OCT 00 (#11401)

Spaceman3750

Quote from: Spam on September 17, 2021, 02:46:59 PM
Quote from: Capt Thompson on September 17, 2021, 01:50:13 PM... and I saw one student with a poncho.

... who was probably my youngest son, in the Advanced course. LOL. He did first session because school started on Monday 2 August, in the middle of NESA this year.

OG GT, yo!

Cheers,
Spam
How did he like it?

Eclipse

#19
I move that this thread be transferred over to the "Hysterical History" discussion as "in the past"
is the only time CAP members are ever going to be deployed overnight in the field during actual missions.

I support the continuation of field craft as an HAA and for general life skills, but it hasn't been
relevent since well before year started with a "2".

"That Others May Zoom"