NIMS compliance

[Nick]

I actually went back and re-read the requirements list (my bad).  You can train for helo ops in SARs without actually using helo ops in SARs, if nothing else, just to satisfy the training requirement.

As for medical, that sounds just like giving the self-aid/buddy care class to me.

[lordmonar]

 On the medical issue though....if you are trained to provide medical services to your "customer" then we MAY....MAY cross that line from lay person first aid into the First Responder area.  If that is the case it becomes a liabilty issue.

On the helo ops..by my read...the training is a little more involved than just familurisation training.  Granted CAP does not do helos and maybe a middle ground can be found that will meet both CAP's liability and the NIMS requirements.

Like I said...nothing that can't be worked out...but we do need NHQ to work out these sort of issues.

Also as a side note......I think NIMS compliance will spell the end of under 18 cadets from working ES.

[DNall]

Helos:
What exactly would be the psychological effects on my equipment? Love that govt writing.

The only helo restriction in CAP is that we not fly the thing ourselves. We do work with, on, & around them all the time. The standard there to me just says you can work to/from, know when it appropriate to call for as a resource, capabilities, etc. That all sounds perfectly reasonable, for the most part can be done w/o being near a helo, and nothing that isn't going on already in several places around the country. Just nice to have the standard all spelled out.


Medical:
You are currently allowed to do first aid. The wilderness advanced firsst aid whatcha-all-it, that's what you're looking for. Perfectly acceptable & achievable for CAP, and covered by current insurance. We are by the way considered first responder agency by the feds, generally not by states, which is where the good sumaritan-type laws are, but it's all interpretation & generally going to side with you. FEMA is working on Congress to fix the situation for volunteer medical pers requested in that role. They aren't asking for us & don't care what our problems are. When that gets resolved you'll get the HSO track & it'll be covered like everything else.

This issue you'll get hit with is the stadards above are bare mins for no-big-deal missions. The higher end teams for what you'd consider a disaster zone require a 4-6 team package w/ an EMT. That sounds reasonable too & doable with some targeted recruiting, maybe some scholarships or something too?

Look here last 3 pages, fixed wing is at the begining:
http://www.fema.gov/pdf/emergency/nims/508-8_search_and_rescue_resources.pdf


Oh, and there is no negotiating. CAP has no voice & the fight is over. This is set in stone. You WILL comply or you will NOT get missions, period. It isn't changing. CAP's been losing that fight for a few years now & finally gave in. What we're waiting on now is the implementation plan & see how fas they intend to get in line. My guess is slow, but it'd be easier pull the tape off fast in my view.

[ZigZag911]

Word I got is that Iowa's chart is basically correct, but ICS 400 probably won't be required for lower levels than IC2/AL2

[Dragoon]

What's funny about this is that when they need folks, they'll take what they can get.  Sure, they'll start with the folks who have met the standards, but the higher the standards, the smaller that pool becomes.

And if Katrina happens again, they'll start waiving stuff right and left to get the job done.

That said, the Wilderness Team requirements don't look that bad.  It wouldn't take much to wicker our GTM to the "equivalent" of SARTECH 2, and the rest is pretty much stuff that could be checked off by sitting through some lectures.

[alice]

Am doubting highly NIMS compliance means end of under 18 for SAR ops.  FEMA knows very well many sheriff offices depend on local Boy Scout Explorer SAR teams.

FWIW:  Lots of the NIMS compliance issues are being redone in the current rewrites of the National Response Plan and NIMS.  For example, there is the NRP/NIMS rewrite working group "Functions" for "review [of] all major operational and support functions within the NRP and [to] conduct a succint review of all Emergency Support Functions, Support, and Incident Annexes."  One of those annexes deals strictly with all SAR ops to ensure the integration of ***all*** federal and non-federal search and rescue assets.

CAP HQ should be coordinating CAP's input on all of this through their own POC, and/or through our state ES agencies and 1st AF's NRP/NIMS Point of Contacts.  Anyone can check the rewrite progess at www.dhs.gov/nrp.  FEMA really wants lots of field responders input through those POCs.

First comment period on the first draft of the NIMs rewrite is Feb 1-19.

First comment period on the first draft of the NRP rewrite is Mar 12-30. 

Electronic release of NRP and NIMs is June 1, amazingly fast for FEMA.

June 1.  Easy deadline to remember.

[RiverAux]

keep in mind that these are still draft standards.  We can't exactly go changing all our stuff because of something that isn't yet finalized.  I feel pretty confident that no matter what is adopted there will be some reasonable phase in period for everybody to adapt. 

[Dragoon]

So true.  And given how hard it is to get CAP to adhere to a standard, we need to keep from getting ahead of FEMA.  I know our National Ops guys are involved in the review process.  Beyond that, "wait and see" seems like a good plan for the rest of us. There's undoubtedly going to be a multiple year phase-in period.  There always is.

[Al Sayre]

Have you all seen the latest "Open Cockpit"?  One of the items is about a new regulations procedure that will allow revisions in 60-90 days vice 6-18 months.

[davedove]

I haven't been able to find any credentialing requirements for any of the Fixed Wing Teams or the Radio Direction Finding Teams.  It seems to me this is a big part of what CAP does.

It does look like the Wilderness Search Teams is where our Ground Team training is best focused.

[Dustoff]

The credentialing requirements are still a work in progress.  I think we'll just have to give them some time to get them published.

Jim
NIMS Instructor

[DNall]

The SaR standards are about to become final, probably sometime next week. For us that just covers WSAR which GTM will have to get in line with, and that's the hardest one we're going to face (PFT, medical specialists, SaRTech II, etc).

The Fixed-Wing & UDF standards haven't been floated for review yet but will come sometime this year. UDF may or may not require either a physical or PFT. The Pilot standards from the typing guide are pretty interesting. We have a lot of people with advanced ratings though. Have to see how it works out. The Aircrew/Observer side I think is going to include some kind of physical at least, & I think the training will be spelled out to alter ours slightly (we really don't spend a lot of time on scanning techniques & such). Biggest thing there is the type guide spells out advanced gear on the plane as you move up levels, that's going to be good for us. I would expect some changes from these, but nothing overly dramatic. Just get WSAR taken care of starting a week from now.

[RiverAux]

I'm not at all worried about what aircrew standards they come up with.  I think CAP has already set the standard in that field (which isn't very broad in the first place). 

[Hartley]

Hi Y'all,

  I have a question - why is it that CAP does not require CPR/First Aid for it's "active" members? (i.e., those who might have a reason to need it)

  We were reviewing the new CAPR 100-4 (Comm Safety) and CAP-USAF asked why it was simply "recommended" that commcen folks have CPR/1st Aid, when the AF requires ALL members to do it.

  Personally, I think it's a good question..

Hartley

[RiverAux]

Rightly or wrongly, we probably don't require it of everbody because it is seen as an Emergency Services skill and some people don't want anything to do with ES (just like others aren't interested in CP or AE).   But, heck, we don't even require it of all our ES folks. 

It is actually a little embarassing that an organization that has significant ES responsibilities doesn't require such training and even more so considering how many children and older senior members that we have. 

[piperl4]

First thing CAP has to do is learn how to track the courses. So far no one knows who has had what course and SQTRS has not been updated to reflect any sort of recording of that training. You can have all the courses you want but if they are not documented somewhere that counts what good are they. Our records are full of certificates but without it on the 101 whats the point.

[RiverAux]

I'm sure that if the 60-3 revision is approved that they will put it in eservices just like all the other ES tasks. 

[sarmed1]

Type II resource

At least 4 team leaders and 28 team members to support at least 4 operational field units (at least 1 member of
each team must be a medical specialist – see below)

So is this mean 1 medical specialist per 32 person team, or each of the 4 operational field units must have a medical specialist on it? 

Whats the break down of postions on the Type II resource?  1 TL, 3 TM and ?......add in MS and technical specialist per OFU plus management staff or is that number supposed to be based on rotating team mebers in and out to maintain that 48 hour operational expectation?

mk

[DNall]

I took it to mean one Medic per 4 OFUs (GTs), which is about right to my thinking. 

[arajca]

For those interested, here's a FEMA slide show abot NIMS compliance...
NIMS Compliance Slide Show.