Another ranger program??

[NCRblues]

Sorry to bring this one up folks but my mind was kind of blown when i read this. I was sent this by one of the cadets that attended NBB and was on my flight this past year, she asked if i could attend (beside the point).

"North Carolina Wing's first Ranger Training weekend to be held at Camp Butner NGTS. Training will be in three different training squadrons. Bravo Squadron will train new cadets who have little or no emergency services experience. Alpha Squadron will train experienced cadets/seniors who are at least GTM2/T qualified and have a high level of motivation. Finally Tango Squadron will train GTM1/T or GTL qualified personnel in Ranger skills. Topics to be covered in all tracks will include land navigation, wilderness survival, search techniques, and rope work (possibly to include rappelling).

Persons interested should send a CAPF31 (cadets) or a CAPF17 (seniors) to NCWG HQ attn Ranger Training with a check for $20.

All personnel will bivouac in the field rain or shine. You will eat food out of your pack for the weekend.

Recommended gear list will be posted on the wing website under Emergency Services."

#1. Do we really need another "ranger" program?
#2. Are we now going to have to deal with every wing forming its own "ranger's"
#3. Can anyone please tell me what "ranger skills" are??

I'm just so lost as to why we need another program...i thought Pennsylvania's "ranger program" was the only one. (because they are getting a large pay check from vanguard)

I'm am all for in the field training and whatnot, but come on, why do we feel the need to call ourselves "rangers"??

[Pylon]

So, if it was an ES mission skills training pipeline but it was just called it something else, there'd be no problem?   


Frankly, if the only bone we have to pick about training is the name, then I think you're in a good place. Could the name be better?  Maybe.  But having quality training and qualified trainers is probably more important than the name.

[PA Guy]

Training is seldom a bad thing.  The problem here is what seems to follow the "Ranger" training, the almost inevitable rush toward bling and developing the elitist attitudes.  Just call it SAR or GT training and move on.

[NCRblues]

So, if it was an ES mission skills training pipeline but it was just called it something else, there'd be no problem?   


Frankly, if the only bone we have to pick about training is the name, then I think you're in a good place. Could the name be better?  Maybe.  But having quality training and qualified trainers is probably more important than the name.

Agree sir, on the fact that training is way more important than the name. I just cant understand why it seems to me we have a need to call these things "ranger" training.

I am a GBD, GTL, UDF, MRO, FLM, FLS.... i must have missed the part about needing "ranger skills" to perform those duty's, and i would still like to know...what are the "ranger skills"?

Or can we admit that the title "ranger" is just used to get kids and unmotivated SM's into ES?

[N Harmon]

I'm am all for in the field training and whatnot, but come on, why do we feel the need to call ourselves "rangers"??

Most likely for lack of a better term. "Rangers" are people who "range over" a wilderness area. There are forest rangers, park rangers, Army rangers, and apparently CAP rangers too.

[a2capt]

I can't wait to see what the "hat" looks like for this one.. ;-)

I have to say though, I hardly think a weekend qualifies for anything "ranger", it's just a really one full day, by the time you deal with instructing on how to setup a shelter/tent/whatever, and all the related lolly-gagging..

[Krapenhoeffer]

_{Krapenhoeffer, fox two}

"You are on a SAR team. You do a job that paid rescuers don't want to bother with. You are not a special forces commando ninja. In fact, 'special forces commando ninja' skills are detrimental to your success. There are others who do this in in a t-shirt and jeans. Be proud of the fact that you get to wear a uniform. Don't get an over inflated ego, or you will not get far in GSAR."

[lordmonar]

Or....we can just ignore the term.  We thank the wing for doing a good job of training.

[Senior]

Ranger skills....
Small unit movement
Blowing stuff up
Calling in airstrikes to blow stuff up
Mountaineering to get to the place to blow stuff up
Small boat operations
Saying HOORAH!!!!!! a lot
PA Rangers skills.....
Wear orange and white stuff, act cool
Run around the woods
Kudos to North Carolina, my birthplace. :clap:

[Eclipse]

I'm Ready!  Let's go Rangers!



Nice patch, too!


Man!  If I still had mine I would break it out every time we did gear tasking! 

[Eclipse]

Some training materials...

[Senior]

Eclipse, NOW that is funny :clap:

[indygreg]

Ranger skills....
Small unit movement
Blowing stuff up
Calling in airstrikes to blow stuff up
Mountaineering to get to the place to blow stuff up
Small boat operations
Saying HOORAH!!!!!! a lot
PA Rangers skills.....
Wear orange and white stuff, act cool
Run around the woods
Kudos to North Carolina, my birthplace. :clap:

I know some Rangers that would die before saying HOORAH!!!  They wouldn't want to be confused with Marines.

[CAP Marine]

IF this training is in line with what is taught at NESA, then the only thing wrong with this is the name and, yes, we have much worse things to worry about. There is a push to establish regional schools that teach this curriculum and perhaps this NCWG school could be part of that. It was done in TXWG this year with great success. But... if it significantly deviates from what is taught as part of the national curriculum I feel that we have a problem.

We need to be pushing forward as an organization to standardize our training. If one wing or group is addressing an area not covered by another, we should be sharing that knowledge or skillset to the benefit of all. This requires a process and time, but is well worth it in the end. As long as a school such as this follows the program and is not set up to either: 1- establish the perception of an "elite" corps of ninja ground team members; or 2- solely out of frustration with the current system's failure to address training needs (real or perceived), I see no problem and offer kudos to the organizers. YMMV

[sarmed1]

I think the proper wording should be:  taught in line with the CAP emergency services curriculm.  NESA nor HMRS nor Blue Beret or whatever school should be "the school ". 

There is nothin wrong with teaching additional curriculm, especially if a local need exists; then by all means add to meet the local/ mission need; and no not everyone else needs to know/learn the local/additional stuff.

I disagree that everyone needs to know someone else's local skill sets.  Yes it should be available to share as needed.   For example; those that live in the flat desert dont need to know the rope/mountain rescue of the northeast; likewise those in the Northeast dont need to know the desert survival that me be integral to operations in Arizona.

[CAP Marine]

Sarmed- I agree with you and appreciate the correction on the wording. I was in fact referring to the curriculum, not the particular school itself. Yes, there will be some local or regional variations. There will be some special skills needed by some but worthless to others. My point, however, was that hopefully this school will be sticking to a base curriculum and not going completely off reservation. While there must be an allowance for different needs in different areas, this type of training should be in addition to, not in replacement of, a baseline of knowledge taught across the organization. Since I have not seen the proposed curriculum for this ranger school, I can't speak to it, but that is not my point nor my place.

It would seem that schools such as this have come and gone in the history of CAP. There must be a reason for it. If said reason is a (real or perceived) lack of quality training or curriculum at the national level, then there is a need that should be addressed holistically. If said reason is that the membership finds that travel to a particular school to learn the national curriculum is inconvenient, too expensive, etc, then establishing a regional school might be a good answer. If said reason is that there are many specialty skills required in a certain locality, perhaps the school could be established as an adjunct or advanced program. But... if said reason is that somebody feels that what is available isn't elite, hardkewl, high speed, or blingy enough, then , IMHO, there may be a problem.

[N Harmon]

NESA nor HMRS nor Blue Beret or whatever school should be "the school ".

I thought NESA was "the school", and that our curriculum was written by and updated by them?

[Eclipse]

NESA nor HMRS nor Blue Beret or whatever school should be "the school ".

I thought NESA was "the school", and that our curriculum was written by and updated by them?

It is, and those who try to assert otherwise are usually squeezing sour grapes for whatever reason.  As an organization we would be much better off if ES qualifications required completion of NESA in the same way that other similar organizations, including the  military, require all operators to complete standardized, baseline training.

It is the only school or similar activity with the sole purpose of training and qualifying CAP members to the national standards.  Anything "off-book" is a national pilot program coming soon to a pamphlet near you.  It has its own charter and and is staffed by members of the national ES curriculum committee.

If the "NESA Way" is different from "your way", you're doing it wrong.

[davedove]

Ranger skills....
Small unit movement
Blowing stuff up
Calling in airstrikes to blow stuff up
Mountaineering to get to the place to blow stuff up
Small boat operations
Saying HOORAH!!!!!! a lot
PA Rangers skills.....
Wear orange and white stuff, act cool
Run around the woods
Kudos to North Carolina, my birthplace. :clap:

I know some Rangers that would die before saying HOORAH!!!  They wouldn't want to be confused with Marines.

That's right, the proper Army term is Hooah!!!  There is no "R".

[HGjunkie]

Marines=Oorah

Army= Hooah