I am having trouble with the jargon that refers to Cadets as Enlisted

[CAP428]

To those who have said that they address cadets by their grade as a sign of respect:  I know what you mean.  I am a cadet, and I appreciate it when a Senior Member addresses me by my grade.

However, it's not exactly in line with CAPP 151, our guide to Customs and Courtesies.  Just food for thought, here is what it has to say:

NOTE Cadets are addressed as `Cadet` by CAP senior
members, USAF officers, and enlisted personnel. Within the
cadet structure, cadets will address other cadets by the
appropriate term.

So, technically you should be addressing cadets as "Cadet," not by their grade.

[CAP428]

It seems I have missed the fact that this was also stated previously on page 1.  So never mind my above post, thought it is still pertinent.

[JohnKachenmeister]

I knew that, but I address cadet NCO's and cadet officers by their grade.  I also used to substitute teach at a school with a JROTC, and on uniform days I would address all cadets in class by their ranks.

Just as you said, it is a matter of respect.  The more you give, the more you get.

[ZigZag911]

I use the grade especially when speaking to or about cadet leaders in front of their subordinate cadets.

[Jolt]

I know I really appreciate being addressed by my grade.  What I don't like is being addressed by the wrong grade when I'm wearing it in about two or three places.  So... I would prefer being called "cadet" if someone's not sure how to read cadet grade.

[sandman]

I know I really appreciate being addressed by my grade.  What I don't like is being addressed by the wrong grade when I'm wearing it in about two or three places.  So... I would prefer being called "cadet" if someone's not sure how to read cadet grade.

Sorry, I cannot address you by your "grade". I can only address you as "cadet" as it is the only appropriate way to address cadets.
When making presentations such as awards, I will address and introduce you as "cadet captain".

On the other side of the coin, I don't have much of a problem with cadets using the term "E-1" through "E-9" to denote their grade as I mentally convert the "E" from "enlisted" to "enrollee" and the "O" from "officer" to "officeholder" ( i.e. position of trust).

It's about one's perception and the others presentation. If the cadet tries to insist on being referred to as "enlisted" or an "officer", then a gentle moment of mentorship ensues...

[SarDragon]

I actually prefer to use a cadet's rank while addressing him/her, especially if a cadet officer. (My aging eyes don't decipher the airman insigia too well any more.) I think it shows a little added respect for the time and effort the cadet has expended to get to that point in the program.

As an aside - cadet airman, or simply airman, refers to all non-officer cadets; Cadet Airman refers to those holding that specific rank. When properly used, the current terminology works well, and there is no need to introduce more confusion by using "enlisted".

[sandman]

I actually prefer to use a cadet's rank while addressing him/her, especially if a cadet officer. (My aging eyes don't decipher the airman insigia too well any more.) I think it shows a little added respect for the time and effort the cadet has expended to get to that point in the program.

As an aside - cadet airman, or simply airman, refers to all non-officer cadets; Cadet Airman refers to those holding that specific rank. When properly used, the current terminology works well, and there is no need to introduce more confusion by using "enlisted".

OK Dave, maybe you're right. I will rethink my statement.....

Actually, I usually use the cadet's grade and name when addressing him or her while conducting business within the cadet program. I will use the term "cadet (grade) (last name)" when conducting business within the senior realm.

I will continue to use only "cadet (name)" when the cadet begins to pi-- me off by doing stupid things. I love it when some Spaatz cadet colonel becomes power drunk and just by calling the cadet "cadet" seems to give him or her a moment to pause...

Part of that mentorship thing I guess.

[ZigZag911]

. I love it when some Spaatz cadet colonel becomes power drunk and just by calling the cadet "cadet" seems to give him or her a moment to pause...

Part of that mentorship thing I guess.

I take it you call virtually all Spaatzes "Cadet"

[Guardrail]

. I love it when some Spaatz cadet colonel becomes power drunk and just by calling the cadet "cadet" seems to give him or her a moment to pause...

Part of that mentorship thing I guess.

I take it you call virtually all Spaatzes "Cadet"

What's wrong with that?  He's following regulations.  If some C/Col can't stand being called "cadet" by a CAP or military officer/NCO, tough. 

[Jolt]

OK Dave, maybe you're right. I will rethink my statement.....

Actually, I usually use the cadet's grade and name when addressing him or her while conducting business within the cadet program. I will use the term "cadet (grade) (last name)" when conducting business within the senior realm.

I will continue to use only "cadet (name)" when the cadet begins to pi-- me off by doing stupid things. I love it when some Spaatz cadet colonel becomes power drunk and just by calling the cadet "cadet" seems to give him or her a moment to pause...

Part of that mentorship thing I guess.

Sir, I'm going to have to say that I respectfully disagree with the way you do things (unless I misunderstood your post).  I'll acknowledge the fact that cadets are supposed to be addressed as "cadet" by senior members and military members and whoever else, but I think it's extremely condescending to call a Spaatz cadet "cadet" for no other reason than to "pop his balloon."  Also, in my opinion, I don't believe it's alright to call a cadet "cadet" in front of their subordinates just because they're getting on your nerves because of what they say about "praise in public, punish in private."  IMHO, no one really deserves it if you're just trying to put them in their place.  My thinking is that a senior member would also more than likely be insulted if one of his superiors came up to him in front of his subordinates and called him by his first name (which is analogous to what's happening when a high ranking cadet officer is addressed by one of the terms that senior members are allowed to use when addressing cadets).

I apologize if I misinterpreted you, sir, and I don't mean to disrespect you with anything I just said, but that's just the way I see things and I wanted to share my views.  Please don't think that I'm trying to tell you what to do, sir, I just wanted to say what I thought, and I'm really trying to do it in the most tactful way that I can.  I've reread and edited this several times.

Also, sir, I said in my prior post that I appreciated it when senior members address me using the grade I earned.  I would never expect that of any senior member.  I was just saying that it was a nice bonus and that I respect those that do address cadets using the grade that they earned.

[flyguy06]

OK Dave, maybe you're right. I will rethink my statement.....

Actually, I usually use the cadet's grade and name when addressing him or her while conducting business within the cadet program. I will use the term "cadet (grade) (last name)" when conducting business within the senior realm.

I will continue to use only "cadet (name)" when the cadet begins to pi-- me off by doing stupid things. I love it when some Spaatz cadet colonel becomes power drunk and just by calling the cadet "cadet" seems to give him or her a moment to pause...

Part of that mentorship thing I guess.

Sir, I'm going to have to say that I respectfully disagree with the way you do things (unless I misunderstood your post).  I'll acknowledge the fact that cadets are supposed to be addressed as "cadet" by senior members and military members and whoever else, but I think it's extremely condescending to call a Spaatz cadet "cadet" for no other reason than to "pop his balloon."  Also, in my opinion, I don't believe it's alright to call a cadet "cadet" in front of their subordinates just because they're getting on your nerves because of what they say about "praise in public, punish in private."  IMHO, no one really deserves it if you're just trying to put them in their place.  My thinking is that a senior member would also more than likely be insulted if one of his superiors came up to him in front of his subordinates and called him by his first name (which is analogous to what's happening when a high ranking cadet officer is addressed by one of the terms that senior members are allowed to use when addressing cadets).

I apologize if I misinterpreted you, sir, and I don't mean to disrespect you with anything I just said, but that's just the way I see things and I wanted to share my views.  Please don't think that I'm trying to tell you what to do, sir, I just wanted to say what I thought, and I'm really trying to do it in the most tactful way that I can.  I've reread and edited this several times.

Also, sir, I said in my prior post that I appreciated it when senior members address me using the grade I earned.  I would never expect that of any senior member.  I was just saying that it was a nice bonus and that I respect those that do address cadets using the grade that they earned.

The post above is an exa,ple of why I believe the cadet program is falling apart in terms of discipline. A cadet is a cadet. A cadet is in a trainee staus. The rank given him is not permanant. He can be a cadet commandr one day and an element member the next. Its training. So, I dont think its inproper to cal a cadet officer "cadet " in front f junior cadets. You are all training. No one os better than the other.Its all about leadership training.

Unfortunantly to many cadets think because they are caets officers they are on the same level as senior members. I remember one time I was a TAC officer at a region encampment. The cadet Commander was actually tying to give me orders and tel what I could and could not do. I couldnt believe this.Whan I was a cadet I would NEVER think of ordering a senior member around no matter what my poston was in the cadet corps I was still a cadet.

Yes, I recognize cadet leaders. And I give them more responsibility then caet Airmen, but that authority only goes so far.

[Jolt]

I didn't really want to start an argument, I just wanted to say how I saw things.

While we can all be moved around and go from cadet commander one day to element leader the next, this really never happens in the cadet program.  If we're truly training for real leadership, then why not treat us like it?

Also, sir, I absolutely agree with you 100% that there's nothing wrong with being called "cadet" in front of other cadets.  I'm not ashamed of being a cadet.  What I don't like is being called "cadet" in front of other cadets as a way to humble me or try to show me discipline.  It's like all kinds of discipline and I believe it's better when it's done in private.  I guess I didn't explain myself well enough.

I would also like to reply to that part about the cadet giving you orders, sir.  I think that one important part of leadership training, and therefore the cadet program, is learning how to interact with superiors and try to get your point across in a way that will get them to see how you're thinking and not step on anyone's toes at the same time.  I know I've made that mistake before (I'm probably making it as I write this) and I make a good effort to learn from every success and mistake I make when doing that.  So what I'm offering is that maybe the communication between the cadet and the TAC was misunderstood and he didn't know how to explain himself when he was trying to make a suggestion (and I think making suggestions is a perfectly reasonable thing for a cadet to do) and he came across as trying to give an order.  I've probably unknowingly done that before.  Maybe what you're seeing, sir, is not the cadet program falling apart and losing discipline, but a misinformed cadet officer that might need some mentoring (not yelling) when it comes to working with superiors.

Sir, all I'm trying to do is offer the perspective of a cadet.  Maybe we don't even realize when we do stupid things (in fact, I'm pretty sure that we don't), but since we're in training, I've always thought that it's okay to make mistakes.  Maybe the problem is not with the discipline of the cadet program, but it's with the training part of it.  I know that if I came across as if I was trying to give an order to one of my superiors, I would want to know about it so that I didn't make that mistake again, it would be even better if someone told me nicely and even gave me advice on how to fix it.  It's just my opinion that showing your power by, in turn, ordering the cadet to do something wouldn't fix the problem and only make them lose respect for you and the problem would never get fixed.

Just my two cents.  I'm not looking for a flaming or a "that's why the cadet program is falling apart."

But, then again, what would I know?  As this thread implies, I'm just a 16 year old child that knows nothing about what's going on around me.

So at this point, I've thrown myself completely out on a limb.  Most of this is what I've gathered that the program should be like through my experiences in CAP, whatever leadership training I've received, and what I think I've collected from the views of other CAP members like the ones on these CAP boards.  I'm really hoping someone can see where I'm coming from on at least something.

[SarDragon]

Calling a Cadet Colonel cadet is merely a reminder of status. I would generally expect not to have to resort to such behaviour, but if it were warranted, I would do it in a civil, off-hand manner.

[sandman]

Sir, I'm going to have to say that I respectfully disagree with the way you do things (unless I misunderstood your post).  I'll acknowledge the fact that cadets are supposed to be addressed as "cadet" by senior members and military members and whoever else

Joe, Let's pause and reflect on your acknowledgement....

Ok, moving on:

....but I think it's extremely condescending to call a Spaatz cadet "cadet" for no other reason than to "pop his balloon."  Also, in my opinion, I don't believe it's alright to call a cadet "cadet" in front of their subordinates just because they're getting on your nerves because of what they say about "praise in public, punish in private."  IMHO, no one really deserves it if you're just trying to put them in their place.  My thinking is that a senior member would also more than likely be insulted if one of his superiors came up to him in front of his subordinates and called him by his first name (which is analogous to what's happening when a high ranking cadet officer is addressed by one of the terms that senior members are allowed to use when addressing cadets).

Umm...no..Joe. My "superiors" routinely call me by my first name. It's a part of the collegial environment you will find in many areas of the military.

I apologize if I misinterpreted you, sir, and I don't mean to disrespect you with anything I just said, but that's just the way I see things and I wanted to share my views.  Please don't think that I'm trying to tell you what to do, sir, I just wanted to say what I thought, and I'm really trying to do it in the most tactful way that I can.  I've reread and edited this several times.

That thought never even crossed my mind

Also, sir, I said in my prior post that I appreciated it when senior members address me using the grade I earned.  I would never expect that of any senior member.  I was just saying that it was a nice bonus and that I respect those that do address cadets using the grade that they earned.

My thought here; "earning" your CAP cadet grade is one thing, earning a senior member's CAP officer's good graces in which he/she address you by your grade is something you must earn at each meeting. How, you might ask? By keeping up your school grades, treating fellow cadets with respect, learning good citizenship, emulating great leaders and reflecting that leadership to cadets subordinate to you....in other words, everything good that CAP and the officers are trying to inculcate into that skull full of mush.

While I appreciate your willingness to step up and voice your opinion, I suggest you take the extra time to pause and consider your position....You may not realize it but you're on the edge young padawan.

Keep up the good work Joe.....

[sandman]

I take it you call virtually all Spaatzes "Cadet"

If the mood and situation suits me.....ummm....yeeessssss

[Fifinella]

At the Air Force Academy, cadets are addressed by other cadets and all staff (officer, enlisted, & civilian) as "cadet", not "C/rank".  (Unless they were still in basic training - then they were addressed as "basic".)

[SAR-EMT1]

At the Air Force Academy, cadets are addressed by other cadets and all staff (officer, enlisted, & civilian) as "cadet", not "C/rank".  (Unless they were still in basic training - then they were addressed as "basic".)

Same in ROTC/ JROTC
And Id like to impress something on any cadets reading this:
In ROTC you are expected to address the cadre NCO's as Sir or Ma'am just as if they were an officer.
Now it just so happened that there was a young, brash CAP Cadet OFFICER who informed this cadre member that he was NOT going to do this, that he would call said cadre member Sgt.  - and that was that.
  For the record I don't think anyone has ever earned himself a seat in the CO's office faster then that. (and I mean the AD Col. not the ROTC C/Col.)
For the record...Cadet equals trainee. Officer equals leader  NCO equals manager.   Don't step out of line. 

[afgeo4]

Okay maybe it is just me but, when I was a cadet we were cadets and nothing more.

When I joined I was a Cadet Basic, then a Cadet, then a Cadet 1st Class.  Now, I see cadets being referred to as Enlisted grades or given awards like "Cadet Enlisted Man of the Year." I have trouble with a cadet being referred to as enlisted.

I have even more trouble with cadets be called Airman.  An Airman is a war fighter, just like a Soldier is a war fighter, just like a Marine is a war fighter, just like a Sailor is a war fighter.

A cadet is a child. So substitute Child for Cadet. You now have Child War Fighter Basic; Child War Fighter, Child War Fighter 1st Class, Child Senior War Fighter.  Wait...  ...what? That does not sound like America it sounds like Africa and South America. And, I have been to places where the childeren were better armed then my unit.

I am sure that the war fighters on this page, me included, would do what ever it takes to give the honorable title of Airman back if it meant children would not know war.

No matter your politics you have to agree that war is a final answer to a failed political question. Or, maybe the final question to a failed political answer.

The leadership lessons our cadets are supposed to learn should be those that transfer to all situations in life. Why would you start by calling your new students by titles of war.

Now before someone flames me as liberal or anti war, think and look back! I never said I was against war. I believe in an eye for an eye.  If called, I would go and hate ever minute but, as a professional Airman I would never turn the other cheek. I believe that our military should be allowed to do the job we are trained for and we can all ask our god for forgiveness at the end.

I put my thoughts out to create debate and dialog because I feel my concerns are real and justified.  Your comments are anticipated and appreciated. I hope that they will clarify this for me. Right now, I feel like we may be making a mistake and not even know it.

Robert Hartigan

Do you have issues with cadets being called Officers?  Let's face it, our current cadet structure contains Cadet Enlisted and Cadet Officer grades. Now... these cadets are not enlisted or commissioned, but their grades reflect enlisted/officer grades in the Air Force. Remember... they're just names of grades. They don't signify much of anything except the place in the cadet program the specific cadet is in.

[afgeo4]

At the Air Force Academy, cadets are addressed by other cadets and all staff (officer, enlisted, & civilian) as "cadet", not "C/rank".  (Unless they were still in basic training - then they were addressed as "basic".)

Same in ROTC/ JROTC
And Id like to impress something on any cadets reading this:
In ROTC you are expected to address the cadre NCO's as Sir or Ma'am just as if they were an officer.
Now it just so happened that there was a young, brash CAP Cadet OFFICER who informed this cadre member that he was NOT going to do this, that he would call said cadre member Sgt.  - and that was that.
  For the record I don't think anyone has ever earned himself a seat in the CO's office faster then that. (and I mean the AD Col. not the ROTC C/Col.)
For the record...Cadet equals trainee. Officer equals leader  NCO equals manager.   Don't step out of line. 

This event is unique to ROTC because it prepares people for service as commissioned officers. It teaches new officers to call higher ranked officers sir/ma'am and instills the self-recongition among cadet NCOs. CAP does not prepare cadets to become commissioned officers in the US military, so the learning tool is useless here.

The same training technique is used in USAF basic training. MTIs who are NCOs are called sir/ma'am by trainees because the said trainees need to learn to call officers sir/ma'am. There are practically no officers around in BMT, so the trainees practice on  the MTIs. The Army does not do this because as a soldier, you face fewer officers in your daily life than you do as an Airman. Remember, the Air Force operational requirement is filled by officers, so there are a lot more on a USAF base than on an Army base.