I am having trouble with the jargon that refers to Cadets as Enlisted

[Robert Hartigan]

Okay maybe it is just me but, when I was a cadet we were cadets and nothing more.

When I joined I was a Cadet Basic, then a Cadet, then a Cadet 1st Class.  Now, I see cadets being referred to as Enlisted grades or given awards like "Cadet Enlisted Man of the Year." I have trouble with a cadet being referred to as enlisted.

I have even more trouble with cadets be called Airman.  An Airman is a war fighter, just like a Soldier is a war fighter, just like a Marine is a war fighter, just like a Sailor is a war fighter.

A cadet is a child. So substitute Child for Cadet. You now have Child War Fighter Basic; Child War Fighter, Child War Fighter 1st Class, Child Senior War Fighter.  Wait...  ...what? That does not sound like America it sounds like Africa and South America. And, I have been to places where the childeren were better armed then my unit.

I am sure that the war fighters on this page, me included, would do what ever it takes to give the honorable title of Airman back if it meant children would not know war.

No matter your politics you have to agree that war is a final answer to a failed political question. Or, maybe the final question to a failed political answer.

The leadership lessons our cadets are supposed to learn should be those that transfer to all situations in life. Why would you start by calling your new students by titles of war.

Now before someone flames me as liberal or anti war, think and look back! I never said I was against war. I believe in an eye for an eye.  If called, I would go and hate ever minute but, as a professional Airman I would never turn the other cheek. I believe that our military should be allowed to do the job we are trained for and we can all ask our god for forgiveness at the end.

I put my thoughts out to create debate and dialog because I feel my concerns are real and justified.  Your comments are anticipated and appreciated. I hope that they will clarify this for me. Right now, I feel like we may be making a mistake and not even know it.

Robert Hartigan

[fyrfitrmedic]

 It would appear that you're reading far too much into the use of the term 'Airman' within CAP's Cadet Program.

The terminology in use hasn't changed all that much in over a quarter-century. Why is it an issue now?

It'd be nice if children were never to know war, but that's probably a topic for another venue altogether.

[Chris Jacobs]

We refer to cadets as "airman" in reference to their grade, not in reference to what they do.  The same goes with the term "enlisted".  now while i do refer to cadets that hold the airmen ranks as "airmen" i don't just call the non cadet officer cadets enlisted cadets.  the only time that i throw the word enlisted out is when i refer to the ranks as "the enlisted ranks".  I don't think that there is any problem with this because one of the goals of the cadet program is to educate cadets on aerospace careers, and what better aerospace career is there than the air force.  i think letting cadets be called airmen is not a big problem as long as they don't take it too far and think of them selves on the same level as real airmen, and take the title with honor.  I think most cadets represt the real airmen well, and i have had many vets come up to me in tears at different veteran events thanking me for representing the armed forces in the way that we do.  So i think that it is OK that we call cadet airmen, airmen.

But i do see your concern, and i think there are those that take it too far.

[MIKE]

Okay maybe it is just me but, when I was a cadet we were cadets and nothing more.

They still are... Kinda.

NOTE Cadets are addressed as `Cadet` by CAP senior
members, USAF officers, and enlisted personnel. Within the
cadet structure, cadets will address other cadets by the
appropriate term.

When I joined I was a Cadet Basic, then a Cadet, then a Cadet 1st Class.  Now, I see cadets being referred to as Enlisted grades or given awards like "Cadet Enlisted Man of the Year." I have trouble with a cadet being referred to as enlisted.

Times change... So do the terms for the grades.  AFJROTC has the same ones BTW.  Even in your day there were Cadet Staff Sergeants and Cadet Majors being called sergeant and major respectively.

I have even more trouble with cadets be called Airman.  An Airman is a war fighter, just like a Soldier is a war fighter, just like a Marine is a war fighter, just like a Sailor is a war fighter.

Blame the USAF for having the term of address for junior enlisted be the same for an all-inclusive term for an Air Force service person. 

The leadership lessons our cadets are supposed to learn should be those that transfer to all situations in life. Why would you start by calling your new students by titles of war.

What are we the sometimes auxiliary of again, and who pays for that free military uniform for little Johnny or Janey?

Now let me ask you a question.  Were you sober when you wrote this little gem?

[Hawk200]

NOTE Cadets are addressed as `Cadet` by CAP senior
members, USAF officers, and enlisted personnel. Within the
cadet structure, cadets will address other cadets by the
appropriate term.

Hmm, guess I've been busting that pub for awhile.....

[Ned]

A cadet is a child.
Robert Hartigan

Robert,


I think I see the problem.

A cadet is not a child.  CAP cadets range in age from 12 - 21 years of age. 

Military enlistees can be as young as 17.

US Army cadets can be as old as 25, and historically could be as old as 40  or so at West Point.



A "cadet" is simply a military student.  Nothing more or less.

IOW, the concepts of "cadethood" and "childhood" are simply unrelated.

Apples and oranges

Some cadets are children, some are adults.

But all are military leadership students.

Hope that helps.

Ned Lee
(former cadet, former child)

[Chris Jacobs]

A cadet is a child.
Robert Hartigan

Robert,


I think I see the problem.

A cadet is not a child.  CAP cadets range in age from 12 - 21 years of age. 

Military enlistees can be as young as 17.

US Army cadets can be as old as 25, and historically could be as old as 40  or so at West Point.



A "cadet" is simply a military student.  Nothing more or less.

IOW, the concepts of "cadethood" and "childhood" are simply unrelated.

Apples and oranges

Some cadets are children, some are adults.

But all are military leadership students.

Hope that helps.

Ned Lee
(former cadet, former child)

That is a good point.  Also if we call cadets airmen they might try to behave more like adults.  Not to say that some of the real air force airmen that i have met don't have their childish moments, but maybe giving the cadets this title will make them grow up a little.  They will see the real airmen as roll models and examples which a lot of young adults don't have.

[Nathan]

Does Mr. Hartigan have a better solution?

Honestly, I see the point. I don't necessarily agree with it, but I do see it. So if he has a problem with us being referred to as a "warfighting term", then what would be an alternative? Or are we just complaining to complain?

[mikeylikey]

This was one of the more amusing posts in a while.   

[DNall]

(by an ANG SSgt in the box by the way)
Outside of AFSOC, what enlisted Airmen are you talking about? SORRY SORRY, I had to. Seriously though, like 4% of the AF is in a combat element. The AF is primarily a support service. "Warrior" as used in the AF is about mission-centric attitude & willingness to put it on the line, and everyone in CAP should have the same thing.

Cadets, may be children after they leave my meeting, but during those set times with me they are treated as adults (immature ones that need supervision maybe, but still). They are not with me to play games, they are there for character, leadershio, & knowledge development to give them future opportunities as a warfighter that they might not otherwise have, and to get a small taste of it before tehy get there. I do view & treat them like enlisted troops & they do respond very favorably.

Phase IV cadets are another story now, they get something more like a peer or direct mentor relationship depending on the circumstance, and they to respond very well to people that know how to lead them while holding high standards & giving them a lot of latitude to make things happen.

[lordmonar]

I also got to say...that in the five years we were in Bosnia...there was not one USAF unintential discharge of a weapon....they army cannot say the same and we were in there with about equal numbers.

[CAP428]

I agree with the majority of the posts above.  They are called airmen because, a) the grade structure is modeled after the Air Force's and b) in this case it is a title and not a job description.

And just a side note, not all cadets are "children."  You can stay in the cadet program until you're 21.  While a 20 year-old cadet may not be the wisest person on earth, I'm not sure I would call him (or her) a "child" either.

[TDHenderson]

Hmm, guess I've been busting that pub for awhile.....

Me too.  I always make it a point to address a Cadet by his/her grade.  It shows respect.  I know I appreciated it when I was a Cadet.

[Hawk200]

Hmm, guess I've been busting that pub for awhile.....

Me too.  I always make it a point to address a Cadet by his/her grade.  It shows respect.  I know I appreciated it when I was a Cadet.

Same thing here. Good to know I'm not the only one.

[Psicorp]

A cadet is a child.
Robert Hartigan

Robert,


I think I see the problem.
A cadet is not a child.  CAP cadets range in age from 12 - 21 years of age. 
A "cadet" is simply a military student.  Nothing more or less.
IOW, the concepts of "cadethood" and "childhood" are simply unrelated.
Apples and oranges
But all are military leadership students.
Hope that helps.
Ned Lee
(former cadet, former child)

For me that pretty well sums it up.  As far as Mr. Hartigan's concerns about warfare, I must say that I have worked with and under Senior Member Officers that I wouldn't want to see on the battlefield...so it's a good thing our organization is non-combatant

[MIKE]

Hmm, guess I've been busting that pub for awhile.....

Me too.  I always make it a point to address a Cadet by his/her grade.  It shows respect.  I know I appreciated it when I was a Cadet.

Same thing here. Good to know I'm not the only one.

Yeah that's the argument you will hear most often against use of just Cadet... You really shouldn't be calling them sergeant or colonel though, as a senior.

[DNall]

Why not? The only time a say "Cadet Lt XYZ" rather than "Lt XYZ" is when his dad is a SM Lt & I need to specify which one I'm talking about, or really in general when I need to specifically point out I'm talking about a cadet officer, once that's established it's just extra words I don't need to say to get my point across. It's pretty obvious when it's enlisted grades. I really don't have a problem with it. The big thing I focus on is don't call people b ytheir first names, & alwyas say "Mr" in front of a cadet officer's name if you don't know or aren't using their grade, just last names on enlisted. Just treat them w/ the respect they've worked hard to earn & that you really do owe them, it's as simple as that.

[JohnKachenmeister]

Cadets are Children?

Legally, some might be, but...

The cadets that we have in CAP differ from every other youth program in one very important way.  They CAN and sometimes ARE assigned to perform a non-combat mission for the USAF.

When I commanded a cadet squadron, I put out a written policy that officers were NOT to refer to cadets as "The kids" or "The boys and girls," or any other perjorative or diminutive terms.  They were, at all times, "The cadets."  Informally, I would accept "The troops."

They were expected to do an airman's job.  They will be treated by their leaders as airmen.  If you treat them like kids, they will act like kids. 

On Monday morning they will be back in school where they need a written permission slip to go to the bathroom, but on the mission they are Cadets of the United States Air Force Auxiliary.

[ZigZag911]

Hmm, guess I've been busting that pub for awhile.....

Me too.  I always make it a point to address a Cadet by his/her grade.  It shows respect.  I know I appreciated it when I was a Cadet.

I do too, for the same reasons....

Same thing here. Good to know I'm not the only one.

[Major Carrales]

It seems to me I've heard this song before.  This is the sort of discussion about CAP that goes on on other forums where CAP is looked at as a group of "posers and pretenders."  What are the chances that this may be an associate from one such place posting this thread to "beat the bushes" for people to come out and make all sorts of comments that would be fodder there.

If this is in fact...

"996 Robert Hartigan 01 May 1990 OH "

I am in mind to question why such a comment would be made by a Spaatzian?

In amendum...

Frankly,  take offense at those that see CAP as "posers and pretenders."  CAP is what it is and is not what it is not.  We ARE volunteers that serve our community on behalf of and for the USAF.  There are ways we are like the USAF, like the cadet rank structures and the uniforms, and there are many² more ways we are not like the USAF.

Be more proud of what you are than ashamed of what you are not!