Attached are the updated AF female hair standards. Expect NHQ to publish an ICL following official AF guidance in the near future.AF Female Hair Standards Updated (21 Jan 21).pdf
Just remember, these are the AIR FORCE and SPACE FORCE standards, not Civil Air Patrol's.
The CAP Uniform Regulation has not changed yet.
Who from NHQ has conveyed that we will be seeing an ICL to R39-1 soon?
I've seen this very topic stirring up on Facebook, and it really showcased members' lack of understanding/adherence to CAP's uniform regulations and the distinct separation from the Air Force.
Quote from: PHall on January 25, 2021, 05:10:45 AMJust remember, these are the AIR FORCE and SPACE FORCE standards, not Civil Air Patrol's.
The CAP Uniform Regulation has not changed yet.
Hasn't changed in the AF yet, either. Not until the new AFI is published. Which should be sometime next month.
Yes, I've seen Airmen already changing their hair to the new standard because they didn't read the fine print.
Quote from: Stonewall on January 25, 2021, 03:45:25 PMYes, I've seen Airmen already changing their hair to the new standard because they didn't read the fine print.
I'm already seeing CAP parents excited to tell their cadets that they can start wearing their braids down.
Why is it that exciting military news always seems to stir within the CAP circuit as if it impacts us?
Quote from: TheSkyHornet on January 25, 2021, 04:11:18 PMQuote from: Stonewall on January 25, 2021, 03:45:25 PMYes, I've seen Airmen already changing their hair to the new standard because they didn't read the fine print.
I'm already seeing CAP parents excited to tell their cadets that they can start wearing their braids down.
Why is it that exciting military news always seems to stir within the CAP circuit as if it impacts us?
Generally, I would expect CAP to follow suit with new grooming standards. It's much easier and practical to adjust these type of standards than changing uniforms. So who knows if or when, but I would imagine CAP will adjust too.
At our last Encampment, we backed up the Commandants usual and normal direction to take several cadets to the base barber early in the week. In one case, we anticipated but were pleasantly surprised that we didn't catch flak about requiring one cadet in particular to cut his 'locks off. Thankfully, his parents were very sensible regarding standards, and we only had to do a follow up with his home unit to reinforce uniform standards, even if they felt like not doing so.
During the discussion, the topic of braids, locks and dreads, the pending DoD changes, and even discussions about ethnic-specific waivers for shaving circulated. The upshot is as presented here: we do not have local authority (at the unit, at the activity/encampment, at Wing or even Region) to do these waivers. If you feel that your situation warrants an exception, you submit it IAW the regs to go to NHQ for action.
In emotionally charged times, and with a fluid DoD situation, we have to refrain from creating conflict here based on personal local opinions one way or another, and need to follow the process as it follows the change in DoD and in society. When things change - we'll guard that standard too, and protect the rights of members therein (e.g. "No, you do NOT absolutely have to have a high and tight" and "No, you do not have to burn it with relaxer").
If you would have told me as a cadet that I'd one day be reading up on female military hairstyles to better serve my troops, I would have had to pick my jaw up off the floor. And probably said "cool"! See some very interesting discussion and pictures on: https://www.vogue.com/projects/13535484/army-ban-on-dreadlocks-black-servicewomen-military-natural-hair-portraits-twists-braids-afros (https://www.vogue.com/projects/13535484/army-ban-on-dreadlocks-black-servicewomen-military-natural-hair-portraits-twists-braids-afros)
May I suggest that reading up, arming oneself with an appreciation of the issues, and being prepared to have a respectful and understanding - but firm - discussion with your members and parents would be a Good Idea here, and might head off some hurt feelings and conflict.
V/r
Spam
... and you're thinking, "Vogue", Spam? Are you kidding me"?
Yeah, I know, I felt the same way. Just read it and have an open mind.
Cheers
Spam
Quote from: Spam on January 25, 2021, 05:55:29 PMDuring the discussion, the topic of braids, locks and dreads, the pending DoD changes, and even discussions about ethnic-specific waivers for shaving circulated. The upshot is as presented here: we do not have local authority (at the unit, at the activity/encampment, at Wing or even Region) to do these waivers. If you feel that your situation warrants an exception, you submit it IAW the regs to go to NHQ for action.
It's much easier to complain or look the other way, then take the steps to make things right for
all parties.
CAP brings this upon themselves by lax enforcement across the board, which then opens the door
for complaints of discrimination or favoritism, etc.
It's hard to take an adult who is load-testing the buttons on his ABUs seriously when he
tells a cadet to get a haircut.
Quote from: Eclipse on January 25, 2021, 06:45:11 PMQuote from: Spam on January 25, 2021, 05:55:29 PMDuring the discussion, the topic of braids, locks and dreads, the pending DoD changes, and even discussions about ethnic-specific waivers for shaving circulated. The upshot is as presented here: we do not have local authority (at the unit, at the activity/encampment, at Wing or even Region) to do these waivers. If you feel that your situation warrants an exception, you submit it IAW the regs to go to NHQ for action.
It's much easier to complain or look the other way, then take the steps to make things right for
all parties.
CAP brings this upon themselves by lax enforcement across the board, which then opens the door
for complaints of discrimination or favoritism, etc.
It's hard to take an adult who is load-testing the buttons on his ABUs seriously when he
tells a cadet to get a haircut.
... which I why I hung up my USAF style uniforms years ago after I had an accident and started gaining, because I didn't want to look like a drogue parachute wrapped around a beer barrel. I screw up a lot, but this was an area where I tried to catch myself. I even weighed myself in front of my commanders one morning (ugh) and showed them how to look it up on the tables.
Uniforms, grooming and such are not the point of CAP. They are enabling tools. I maintain that they are a leading indicator of mind set and of individual and unit effectiveness (for example, if I go visit one of my Squadrons and see one sloppy Airman, I see a point problem... I see a bunch of them, I see a leadership issue and then start looking closer at other systematic things like airmanship, finance, safety, etc.). A local leader who won't correct a simple thing like a haircut is an action item for me to retrain/monitor/possibly replace him/her.
But that is probably just my experience.
- Spam
Quote from: Spam on January 25, 2021, 07:35:23 PMA local leader who won't correct a simple thing like a haircut is an action item for me to retrain/monitor/possibly replace him/her.
A year from now, when we are to the point we have trouble keeping the airplanes flown enough, and trouble having enough Seniors to look over the youth ..... I imagine haircuts and that day old beard will be overlooked a lot. We will need warm bodies.
You'll counter with quality over quantity .... but at some point, we'll be begging for numbers. Almost there now in many Wings.
Quote from: etodd on January 25, 2021, 08:31:38 PMA year from now, when we are to the point we have trouble keeping the airplanes flown enough, and trouble having enough Seniors to look over the youth ..... I imagine haircuts and that day old beard will be overlooked a lot. We will need warm bodies.
You'll counter with quality over quantity .... but at some point, we'll be begging for numbers. Almost there now in many Wings.
If someone shows up with a day old beard while wearing ABUs or Blues, then that person needs to be addressed/corrected.
Let's not slack off just because we don't want to be pushy. It'll be much harder to change the culture back later and enforce old standards when we spent a year relaxing them.
I had a conversation with my cadet staff just last week about this, and a couple of weeks prior: Now is not the time to get relaxed about your appearance or dropping courtesies. As we resume "regular" meetings, we need to be on our best game to set that example for the newer (and junior) faces.
We have had nearly a dozen inquiries about joining CAP "during COVID." When they come and visit, whether in person or on a call, we need to look and act sharp. I'm not saying go out of your way to have the most crisp uniform and a brand-new pair of boots. But at least adhere to the minimum standard and hold the rest of the corps to it.
Look, if they say you can wear braids down or a ponytail, then that becomes the standard. But until then, ladies, put your hair in a bun or keep it off your shoulders. Gentlemen, ditch the "just woke up" and "newly hatched chickling" look. I don't care if it's cute; you're out of compliance. And if it continues, it's going to negatively impact your "cadet career" here. The exact same goes for seniors.
Quote from: etodd on January 25, 2021, 08:31:38 PMA year from now, when we are to the point we have trouble keeping the airplanes flown enough, and trouble having enough Seniors to look over the youth ..... I imagine haircuts and that day old beard will be overlooked a lot. We will need warm bodies.
You'll counter with quality over quantity .... but at some point, we'll be begging for numbers. Almost there now in many Wings.
If anything, it will be important to stress standards and compliance more then in the past.
CAP will have had nearly two years of complacency, waivers, and thousands of cadets
who have never been held to a standard, because they have never attended an in-face meeting.
That would not be the time to start "overlooking things", and to suggest otherwise indicates
a misunderstanding of the hows and whys of the cadet program.
Further to the comment about hours - when any semblance of normalcy returns, flight hours are not
going to be an issue for anyone. There's nearly two years of unspent budgets, unexecuted
programs, and throttled enthusiasm.
That is the time to emphasize policies, regulations, and compliance, because the "get it restarted itis"
coupled with inexperienced members is going to bring with it a potential wave of mishaps.
You start with appearance.
Quote from: etodd on January 25, 2021, 08:31:38 PMQuote from: Spam on January 25, 2021, 07:35:23 PMA local leader who won't correct a simple thing like a haircut is an action item for me to retrain/monitor/possibly replace him/her.
A year from now, when we are to the point we have trouble keeping the airplanes flown enough, and trouble having enough Seniors to look over the youth ..... I imagine haircuts and that day old beard will be overlooked a lot. We will need warm bodies.
You'll counter with quality over quantity .... but at some point, we'll be begging for numbers. Almost there now in many Wings.
If a Unit Commander can't be trusted to enforce the little, easy to follow rules like uniform wear, then why should we expect them to make the hard decisions like who can be trusted to fly the airplanes safely.
Quote from: etodd on January 25, 2021, 08:31:38 PMQuote from: Spam on January 25, 2021, 07:35:23 PMA local leader who won't correct a simple thing like a haircut is an action item for me to retrain/monitor/possibly replace him/her.
A year from now, when we are to the point we have trouble keeping the airplanes flown enough, and trouble having enough Seniors to look over the youth ..... I imagine haircuts and that day old beard will be overlooked a lot. We will need warm bodies.
You'll counter with quality over quantity .... but at some point, we'll be begging for numbers. Almost there now in many Wings.
No, dude. Just no.
Quote from: TheSkyHornet on January 25, 2021, 04:11:18 PMWhy is it that exciting military news always seems to stir within the CAP circuit as if it impacts us?
The percentage of people, many in leadership positions who have used the words, "we're part of the Air Force" is likely a contributing factor.
"Necro thread, arise"
Another update on this topic from Ma Blue:
https://www.airforcemag.com/air-force-hair-standards-women-inclusive/ (https://www.airforcemag.com/air-force-hair-standards-women-inclusive/)
and
https://www.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/2654774/air-force-readdresses-womens-hair-standard-after-feedback/ (https://www.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/2654774/air-force-readdresses-womens-hair-standard-after-feedback/)
R/s
Spam
Call me crazy here, but I don't think that looks professional in a uniform.
I'd also be concerned about safety where that loose hair could get caught in machinery or power tools.
Also, as the USAF and USSF are Armed Services, in a hand-to-hand combat or defensive tactics situation, that's just one more thing for a bad guy to grab a hold of and YANK... HARD. Just saying.
Quote from: shuman14 on June 15, 2021, 10:21:40 PMCall me crazy here, but I don't think that looks professional in a uniform.
I'd also be concerned about safety where that loose hair could get caught in machinery or power tools.
Also, as the USAF and USSF are Armed Services, in a hand-to-hand combat or defensive tactics situation, that's just one more thing for a bad guy to grab a hold of and YANK... HARD. Just saying.
Just because one 'can' wear that style doesn't mean everyone will. Especially during combat. LOL
Quote from: shuman14 on June 15, 2021, 10:21:40 PMCall me crazy here, but I don't think that looks professional in a uniform.
I'd also be concerned about safety where that loose hair could get caught in machinery or power tools.
Also, as the USAF and USSF are Armed Services, in a hand-to-hand combat or defensive tactics situation, that's just one more thing for a bad guy to grab a hold of and YANK... HARD. Just saying.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!! You said Air Force and hand to hand combat in the same sentence.
Dude, you really need to regain some semblance of reality.
Quote from: PHall on June 15, 2021, 10:34:38 PMHahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!! You said Air Force and hand to hand combat in the same sentence.
Dude, you really need to regain some semblance of reality.
As an Army Military Police Officer, I have had numerous opportunities to work with Air Force Security Forces in my nearly 32 years of Service and I can tell you they do go "hands on" when required.
So my statement is quite grounded in reality and actual experience.
Quote from: shuman14 on June 16, 2021, 04:15:05 PMQuote from: PHall on June 15, 2021, 10:34:38 PMHahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!! You said Air Force and hand to hand combat in the same sentence.
Dude, you really need to regain some semblance of reality.
As an Army Military Police Officer, I have had numerous opportunities to work with Air Force Security Forces in my nearly 32 years of Service and I can tell you they do go "hands on" when required.
So my statement is quite grounded in reality and actual experience.
Air Force Security Forces is about 5% of the Air Force. Even including all the Special Operations "Operators" about 85% of the Air Force doesn't go outside the wire because their job doesn't require it.
Quote from: PHall on June 16, 2021, 08:10:47 PMQuote from: shuman14 on June 16, 2021, 04:15:05 PMQuote from: PHall on June 15, 2021, 10:34:38 PMHahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!! You said Air Force and hand to hand combat in the same sentence.
Dude, you really need to regain some semblance of reality.
As an Army Military Police Officer, I have had numerous opportunities to work with Air Force Security Forces in my nearly 32 years of Service and I can tell you they do go "hands on" when required.
So my statement is quite grounded in reality and actual experience.
Air Force Security Forces is about 5% of the Air Force. Even including all the Special Operations "Operators" about 85% of the Air Force doesn't go outside the wire because their job doesn't require it.
What is the relevance of this to this debate message board?
Quote from: TheSkyHornet on June 17, 2021, 07:02:23 PMWhat is the relevance of this to this debate message board?
My original comment had relevance, PHALL's vacuous response did not, it was all chest thumping and gorilla dust beyond that.
Thread lock coming soon I suspect.
Beyond the ramifications of combat duties or getting the locks of one's coiffure caught in machinery, I have to say that the buzz among the current and prospective female members that I've spoken with is positive. They are all looking forward to a time when CAP might adopt similar guidelines.
The most frequent comments I hear are about how these changes will reduce or eliminate hair loss/breakage and headaches.
I see nothing wrong with this:
(https://i.pinimg.com/564x/7f/37/de/7f37dea62221ab6d0397aa49d0e899c6.jpg)
Quote from: etoddI see nothing wrong with this:
Yes the IDF seems to have let their hair down, long ago:
(https://c8.alamy.com/compes/erbyyc/la-mujer-soldado-israeli-erbyyc.jpg)
Quote from: etodd on June 17, 2021, 09:10:32 PMI see nothing wrong with this:
(https://i.pinimg.com/564x/7f/37/de/7f37dea62221ab6d0397aa49d0e899c6.jpg)
A few things here.
PHall, with regards to "hand to hand combat", or what in the 2000's we call combatives, believe it or not, it is a regular training requirement for the Security Forces career field. Even in my ANG SFS, we do combatives for the first hour of the first day (Saturday) of each drill weekend. We have four combatives instructors, to include one female, who happens to wear a ponytail, as do all of our female airmen.
Since the changes occurred and allowed ponytails, it took about two days to get used to and now it's more common to see them than not. What I find funny is all the women in the Air Force, including my wife, who were first outspokenly against it, but ALL of them now opt for the ponytail.
Cool thing that changed with the announcement last week that the AF now allows OCP (multicam) baseball caps in lieu of the OCP patrol cap, is that women can now pull their ponytails through the opening in the back.
Quote from: Stonewall on June 19, 2021, 10:05:39 PMCool thing that changed with the announcement last week that the AF now allows OCP (multicam) baseball caps in lieu of the OCP patrol cap, is that women can now pull their ponytails through the opening in the back.
:cringe:
Air Force is going back to ballcaps?
Yeesh, I was more than happy to get rid of mine. They wore out a lot faster than PCs.
Quote from: Hawk200 on June 23, 2021, 05:59:03 AMQuote from: Stonewall on June 19, 2021, 10:05:39 PMCool thing that changed with the announcement last week that the AF now allows OCP (multicam) baseball caps in lieu of the OCP patrol cap, is that women can now pull their ponytails through the opening in the back.
:cringe:
Air Force is going back to ballcaps?
Yeesh, I was more than happy to get rid of mine. They wore out a lot faster than PCs.
Who really wears a hat, regardless of type, enough to wear out fast?
Security Forces wear the same berets for years, sometimes a decade, before needing to be replaced. I have a multicam ball cap that I've had for 10 years that has been worn off and on for more than 10 years that's still serviceable.
I really don't think it's an issue for any style/type of hat.
Quote from: Stonewall on June 26, 2021, 06:52:03 PMWho really wears a hat, regardless of type, enough to wear out fast?
Security Forces wear the same berets for years, sometimes a decade, before needing to be replaced. I have a multicam ball cap that I've had for 10 years that has been worn off and on for more than 10 years that's still serviceable.
I really don't think it's an issue for any style/type of hat.
The complete cloth ones issued back in the late '80s and early '90s were garbage. Then there was an optional "trucker" style that was also complete garbage.
I've got a few tactical hats that have held up just fine, but the Air Force issued ones were utter crap. I was happy to get rid of the ones I had. My first year in the Air Force, I got washed back into a class that was entirely Army, and one Friday the class leader asked me what my hat size was. Monday morning, he hands me two patrol caps. At the time, you couldn't buy the PCs unless you had an Army ID.
If they get some quality ones, that'd be good. I won't hold my breath though.
Doesn't really matter though. Retired now, so I won't be seeing them anyway. (Which is something I guess I should be thankful for. Although, there's other things I'm a little annoyed about missing out on, but it is what it is.)