CAP Officers Behaving Badly Poll

[Strick]

NBow, the fact that about 10% of us have seen such behavior is nothing to crow about.  Of course this should never happen at all, in particular a CAP officer trying to pull rank on someone in the military, but it doesn't seem to be at such levels that it should impact decisions that are made on uniform wear, rank systems, etc. 

At worst it indicates that we might want to beef up the sections in our iniital member training on these issues and hammer home the wrongness of such behavior.

Well there is a "wanna bee" crowd in CAP, they love to wear flight suits where wearing a golf shirt & gray pants would work just fine (or mandatory wear of the blue flight suit), or wear all those other AF uniforms (especially the BDU's), to look AF AUX so to speak.



I fly at least 10 hours a week for CAP and wear a flight suit so does that make me a wanna bee?

[SilverEagle2]

How in the world does wearing one of the organization's approved uniforms define someone as a RM wannabe?

I ask the same.

I choose to wear a flight suit because it is safer than a Polo Combo. If I go down in the mountains of Utah/Colorado etc, I want to be in boots and nomex not cotton and shoes.

Might want to re-eval your thinking and stance a little.

[James Shaw]

What was the topic on this?

Oh yeah....the good far outweigh the bad examples. Just my  .02 worth.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Sorry for the necrothreding, but what should you do in a situation where a soldier salutes a CAP Officer? This happened to me while at a class recently. I saluted back and went on my way not sure of what to do. Should you salute and leave it be? Or should you tell them not to, or should you salute and inform them not to? What to do?

[JoeTomasone]

Sorry for the necrothreding, but what should you do in a situation where a soldier salutes a CAP Officer? This happened to me while at a class recently. I saluted back and went on my way not sure of what to do. Should you salute and leave it be? Or should you tell them not to, or should you salute and inform them not to? What to do?

When saluted, return the salute.   A salute is a military form of greeting, while some are entitled to one, it is never inappropriate for anyone to render a salute.     

AD military are not required to salute CAP members, but may if they so choose (or, more commonly in my opinion, don't realize that they are NOT required).


As to the original topic, I don't know of anyone personally doing anything over the top, but I have heard anecdotes.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Radioman, with all due respect, your stance on "CAP shouldn't wear AF-type uniforms" is well known, therefore I think that stance colours your reply.

I joined in 1993, not long after the "Harwell incident" and imposition of berry boards.

I think that caused such a shakeup in CAP thinking from National on down that CAP has become so skittish about such an incident happening again that the vast majority of CAP members I know wouldn't consider attempting to troll for a salute.  It is that very skittishness about "oh no we might be ticking the AF off!!!!" that caused us to lose a perfectly good, and popular, uniform (the CSU) and ensured that the only alternative to the AF-style uniform is going to probably be the bloody awful (in my view) grey/white, forever and ever amen.

It's really silly to detour out of your way just to see if you'll get one.

In my experience, it really depends on the situation as to whether or not I get saluted or not.

I rarely get saluted by AF personnel.  Older NCO's may say "hello," or something like that (which is perfectly fine), but young Airmen look at me like they can't figure out what I am.  Most salutes by AF personnel I have received come from those who are former CAP members, or who have a son/daughter that is a cadet, etc.

Most commonly I get saluted by Army personnel, sometimes by Navy and Marines, and Coast Guard on the few occasions I encounter them.

I always try to either initiate or return a greeting: "Good morning, Corporal," "Good evening, Master Sergeant," etc. regardless of whether or not I've been saluted.

Of course, I return any and all salutes received, accompanied by a greeting, and render a salute to anyone senior in rank to me.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Thank you. Sorry again for the necrothread.

[JK657]

CAP officer trolling for salutes on military base

Ive seen first hand at an active Air Force Base. They (there were two of them) were posted up in front of the PX. As Airmen would approach them they would face towards them so as to ensure the Airman saw them and saluted. Its hard to describe but picture them talking face to face and then move shoulder to shoulder so they were now facing the Airman. As said Airman got closer he would salute and then the CAP Officers would return the salute and move back to face to face communication until the next airman was in the area. They were directly in front of the entrance so there was no avoiding them. I like to give the benefit of the doubt but after watching them for 20 minutes or so while I ate my lunch I figured out what they were doing.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

^That is just sad.

I didn't know what to do. When I was Army, I would salute CAP officers, even cadet officers because I respect CAP and know what a good it does. So far as the cadets were concerned, I saluted them because they had earned the right to be saluted by one group so why not. Plus it makes most cadets feel good. I was corrected once by a CAP SM Officer, only once, and I saluted quite a few. I told him that unless it is just flat wrong, I wanted to keep doing it.

[Eclipse]

Cadet officers have not "earned the right" to be saluted by adults of any service.

Senior Members "correcting" a member of the military for saluting them need to be "corrected" themselves.

The customs and rules of saluting are simple - people making up their own just makes it harder on everyone and
turns what should be a 2-second acknowledgement into a painful socio-economic mental exercise.

[SARDOC]

^^

And to clarify, River.  I have seen it done during my days as a aircraft mech on Guard and AD time.  Did not see it everyday and I know it did not happen everyday...

Makes CAP officers look like tools

Any Officer trolling for salutes is a tool.  Don't get me wrong...my years in the military I always afforded officers all due respect.  I also hated Soldiers and Sailors who would wait indoors to avoid saluting officers or avoiding Colors or crossing the street to avoid. 

Officers trolling are just trying to make up for their inadequacies instead of being a true leader.  Thanks  IMHO.

[JohnKachenmeister]

A little more than half of the Air Force personnel I encounter will salute.  Virtually all of the members of other services will salute CAP officers.  As far as AF personnel, most all of the AF officers render a salute to senior-in-grade CAP officers.

In cases where a salute is rendered, I return it smartly.

When a salute is not rendered, I have nothing to return.  I appreciate a verbal greeting, however.  Even if military courtesy is not required, common courtesy is still appropriate.

The idea of "Trolling" for salutes is absurd.  What are you going to do if they don't salute?

Maybe our Group is different.  I have never known an officer to do something like that.