CAP officers saluting military officers

[Skyray]

My first job as a butterbar I had a staff sergeant assigned to my shop who was a Captain in the CAP.  Should he be in CAP uniform on base?  And if he were and we met on the company street, who should initiate the required salute?  FWIW, that is the reason that I didn't join CAP back in 1961.

[mikeylikey]

^  He should absolutely salute you......he knew you were a 2LT, and he knew you were his "boss".  It would only make the relationship in his "real" job just a little awkward.  Then again.....I have seen brand new Lt's go days with enlisted guys (usually Senior NCO's) fail to salute them.  Then it takes a talk from the Battery Commander along the line of "soldiers, salute an officer, no matter what rank he or she may be.  If I see it happen again, it goes on your NCOER".

[flyguy06]

I am sure that no where in the UCMJ does it say that I have to salute Civil Air Patrol officers. I do it out of curteousy but no where is it mandated.

[Skyray]

SSgt Lively, the NCO to which I was referring, Never wore his CAP uniform in public.  Unlike some of our bling hunting wannabee officers, he was somewhat embarrassed by the rank differential, which I suspect is the reason for the NCO rules in CAP today.  It was many years ago in a Galaxy far away.

[Major Carrales]

My first job as a butterbar I had a staff sergeant assigned to my shop who was a Captain in the CAP.  Should he be in CAP uniform on base?  And if he were and we met on the company street, who should initiate the required salute?  FWIW, that is the reason that I didn't join CAP back in 1961.

Really, the CAP rank structure is only a CAP thing.  Officers of the Armed Forced no more have an obligation to salute us as they do a Police Officer or Fireman.  Thus, if he is in CAP uniform on a base, he renders salutes...when necessary...to CAP Officers. 

I've seen Armed Forces folks render salutes to firemen and police officers out of respect for their service to their communities (mostly while gathering for parades and the like).  These Civilian police and fire folk returned the salute out of respect.  Thus, if a US Military Officer salutes a CAP Officer as a courtesy for CAP's service to the Community...would it not be a insult not to respond in kind?

I find it odd that one would stay out of CAP, a community service organization, merely because of saluting?  I have several USN personnel in my unit that are actually priased by their commanders for service in CAP.

[flyguy06]

You can wear your CAP uniform on a military post. To be honest most military people at the junior officer levcel dont really know about CAP and treat it is as a civilain organization so they could care less if you salute them or not. If you did sa,ute them they probabaly would be shocked. They dont recognize the uniform so they may think you're a cop or something.  iasked the Georgia Adjutant General once if he had heard of CAP. he had heard of it but has know working relationship with CAP.

So, maybe its different in differant states. I guess its not all one standard

[Major Carrales]

I should very much like to write an acticle about this in a future edition of my weekly newsletter/almanac.  Issues like this "sasluting" questions are things that need to be clarified to the squadron level officer.

[Skyray]

I find it odd that one would stay out of CAP, a community service organization, merely because of saluting?

The saluting was not the issue.  The issue was the blurring of status between myself as an officer and my staff sergeant as an NCO.

[flyguy06]

Well major Corrales, ithink youhit it on the head in your previous post. Saluting of CAP personel by military personnel is a curteousy done out of respect for what the CAP folks do. It is not mandated. Like I said, I have been onboth sides. Military folks ( and I speak of Army mianly) just dont know that much about CAP unless they themselves were in it. Its not somethin gwe teach at basic training or officer commissionin gprograms.

I have seen it the other way as well. I was acting in my CAP role and we had an activity at an Army installation. soldiers (young 18-20 year old privates) saw us and didnt know exactly what to do. Some laughed at the cadets calling them wannabe soldiers. I stepped in and corrected them and it was straight after that.

I think some folks in CAP take CAP way more than it should be taken. Sure I agree that CAP should be a lot more military than it is now, but I believ ethat should happen in its own community not inthe bigger DOD community. We should salute each other more. We should instil military customs and curteousies in our cadets and seniors more than we presently do. But we are subjected to UCMJ so we cant make military people salute.

[flyguy06]

I was a Specialist in the active duty army while I was a 1LT in CAP. I lived in the barracks and when I would get dressed to go to CAP, my buddies gave me the business first off cause I was wearing a semi Air Force uniform and secondly cause I had officer rank on.

[JohnKachenmeister]

Man, i cannot BELIEVE this discussion.

CAP officers salute those with higher rank.

Armed Forces personnel are not required to salute CAP officers, but if they do the salute must be returned.

This is not rocket science.

Get with the program.

[JC004]

This is not rocket science.

I always wanted to be a rocket scientist just so I could say I was and I could randomly declare "this takes a rocket scientist, stand aside!"

[arajca]

This is not rocket science.

I always wanted to be a rocket scientist just so I could say I was and I could randomly declare "this takes a rocket scientist, stand aside!"

[continuing off topic...]
I've used that line, "It's not rocket.." teaching the Titan stage model rocketry class. Then I usually add, "Wait a minute, IT IS rocket science." Got a chuckle out of the cadets and had one senior members spraying coffee.
[Back to your regularly scheduled topic]

[dougsnow]

Per AFI 10-2701...

"A1.3.5. Grade Structure. CAP uses a military style grade structure for both its Senior Members and Cadet Members. CAP grades for both their cadet and senior members have no military standing, carry no authority over members of the Armed Forces, nor warrant the customs and courtesies afforded military members. Appointment and promotion follows guidelines contained within CAP regulations."

[jb512]

Per AFI 10-2701...

"A1.3.5. Grade Structure. CAP uses a military style grade structure for both its Senior Members and Cadet Members. CAP grades for both their cadet and senior members have no military standing, carry no authority over members of the Armed Forces, nor warrant the customs and courtesies afforded military members. Appointment and promotion follows guidelines contained within CAP regulations."

That's just common sense, one would think...

[Smokey]

Of course Kack has it right again....In uniform (AF Style) I salute any  CAP or Armed Forces officer higher in rank, I return any salute given to me smartly , and never expect a salute.

If you can't hang with that....well time for you to move on.

[RiverAux]

There seems to be universal agreement that CAP officers are not required to salute military officres whose rank/grade (6 of one, half a dozen of the other in my book) insignia is less than their own. 

[sandman]

Per AFI 10-2701...

"A1.3.5. Grade Structure. CAP uses a military style grade structure for both its Senior Members and Cadet Members. CAP grades for both their cadet and senior members have no military standing, carry no authority over members of the Armed Forces, nor warrant the customs and courtesies afforded military members. Appointment and promotion follows guidelines contained within CAP regulations."

True from the Air Force perspective. But now you are forgetting what CAPP 151(E) states:

2. Customs and Courtesies. Military customs and courtesies
are proven traditions that explain what should and should not be
done. They are acts of respect and courtesy in dealing with other
people. They have evolved as a result of the need for order, as
well as the mutual respect and sense of fraternity that exist
among military personnel. The Civil Air Patrol shares in that
tradition.

/r
LT

[sandman]

Man, i cannot BELIEVE this discussion.

CAP officers salute those with higher rank.

Armed Forces personnel are not required to salute CAP officers, but if they do the salute must be returned.

This is not rocket science.

Get with the program.

I share your pain Kach.....

Fellow CAPers. Why is this discussion continuing?

Time and time again we've shown you the guidelines (CAPP151). Why do you continue to argue what should be clear enough to you?

Quit comparing yourself with the real military. Dual enrollees such as myself: just follow the customs and courtesies of the uniform you are wearing at the moment.....


You CAP members who continually bring up the "what if" when dealing with real military use some common sense (which seems to be lacking in many of you ).

The guidelines for C&C / protocol are there already. Big Blue doesn't have to salute you but choose to do so out of common courtesy. CAPers salute each other and real military who wear a grade that outranks the one you're wearing at the moment.

[sandman]

Per AFI 10-2701...
"A1.3.5. ......... nor warrant the customs and courtesies afforded military members........

I wanted to address this once more.

This is telling real AF members that they are not required by law to render military customs and courtesies.

The use of "...nor warrant...." is to make that point clear to unlearned real military, not to "snub" the valor of the volunteers.