Exceptions to Gender-Based Grooming Standards?

Started by CadetFaith, October 20, 2014, 02:58:05 PM

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LSThiker

#100
Quote from: Johnny Yuma on October 27, 2014, 03:33:49 AM
You know about as much of my credentials as I do yours.

I would not say that Maj Jonathan A.....  We may have gone to an activity together, but then again we may not and I just figured it out.  How is your farm and your horses?

Майор Хаткевич

Quote from: Eclipse on October 27, 2014, 03:46:04 AM
Quote from: Capt Hatkevich on October 27, 2014, 03:42:00 AM
Quote from: Johnny Yuma on October 27, 2014, 03:34:27 AM
Quote from: Capt Hatkevich on October 27, 2014, 02:41:51 AM
That's sort of like telling a lesbian cadet that she was born a female, and meant to like boys, isn't it?

Ummm, No.

Oh right...unlike gender reassignment, a gay cadet can choose to change, right?

Gay cadets don't have to change, nor does anyone need to know.

Agreed. I'm just going with the majors reasoning here.

NIN

Well, this was a nice reasoned discussion for awhile that had a couple rough patches.

Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
I have no responsibilities whatsoever
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2024 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

LSThiker

Quote from: NIN on October 27, 2014, 09:29:19 AM
Well, this was a nice reasoned discussion for awhile that had a couple rough patches.

Well overall, I would say this has been a fairly nice and civil discussion considering just how polarizing people can be on this topic. 

The CyBorg is destroyed

Quote from: LSThiker on October 27, 2014, 01:28:00 PM
Quote from: NIN on October 27, 2014, 09:29:19 AM
Well, this was a nice reasoned discussion for awhile that had a couple rough patches.

Well overall, I would say this has been a fairly nice and civil discussion considering just how polarizing people can be on this topic.

Usually, as with many topics, such polarisation too often comes from a lack of empirical knowledge of the subject being discussed.

No-one is able to completely divorce themselves from their emotions and opinions, but it is good to be able to do so to the limits of your ability to be more objective in a discussion.
Exiled from GLR-MI-011

sarmed1

Interestingly, I was looking at a couple of school district sites regarding transgender-esque rules.  Most it seemed, regardless of any hormone or surgical interventions (or lack there of) have the policy that administrators have to refer to them by the gender they choose to identify with and have to allow them to use the bathrooms and locker rooms that also coincide with their choose of gender identity.  They also can not force them to dress according to their birth gender.

Now there is a big difference between the legal standing of a school district and the private corporation of CAP.  But the point is that the same concern is out there everyday in the schools (transgender boy in the girls locker room) as has been addressed here (transgender boy in overnight activity in the "girl" sleeping area.)... and it doesnt seem that the world has ended, the school districts havent been sued for endangering other kids (in fact I usually see the opposite, sued for not allowing transgender students into the bathrooms & locker rooms of their identified gender)

Interesting question here:  What will you do with openly gay cadets or transgender cadets at overnight activities?  refuse to let them participate? make them sleep with the opposite sex? same sex?  make a special sleeping area for "other".... there is a pretty big can of worms lurking under the surface here, just waiting to be opened.

MK
Capt.  Mark "K12" Kleibscheidel

Майор Хаткевич

Quote from: sarmed1 on October 28, 2014, 02:44:50 AM
Interesting question here:  What will you do with openly gay cadets or transgender cadets at overnight activities?  refuse to let them participate? make them sleep with the opposite sex? same sex?  make a special sleeping area for "other".... there is a pretty big can of worms lurking under the surface here, just waiting to be opened.

MK

It's not a big can of worms at all. What do the schools do with gay students? How often do gay students rape straight students?

lordmonar

Quote from: sarmed1 on October 28, 2014, 02:44:50 AM
Interesting question here:  What will you do with openly gay cadets or transgender cadets at overnight activities?  refuse to let them participate? make them sleep with the opposite sex? same sex?  make a special sleeping area for "other".... there is a pretty big can of worms lurking under the surface here, just waiting to be opened.
It is not waiting to be opened....it is opened.

As of right now......from the guidance I have gotten from NHQ.....we treat them as the gender presented on the offical ID.

Boys with boys, girls with girls....two deep leadership in separate quarters. 
PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP

LSThiker

Quote from: Capt Hatkevich on October 28, 2014, 02:57:48 AM

It's not a big can of worms at all. What do the schools do with gay students? How often do gay students rape straight students?

How often do schools have overnight activities.  CAP probably outnumbers those types of activities when compared to a school.  Granted, I did stay a few times in a hotel for a school activity.

But basically, males with males and females with females, even the gay and lesbian cadets.

sarmed1

My point being if people hide in the sand on this one, when transgender or gay cadets show up at encampment or some other such activity and someone tries to make a snap decision, thats the can of worms I was referring to.


mk
Capt.  Mark "K12" Kleibscheidel

lordmonar

No one is hiding in the sand.

CAP NHQ types are busy working it out.

The problem is that there is zero guidance from the real world on how to handle it. 

If you got some guidance.....I'm sure the guys at NHQ would love your input.
PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP

Ned

Quote from: sarmed1 on October 28, 2014, 03:46:57 AM
My point being if people hide in the sand on this one, when transgender or gay cadets show up at encampment or some other such activity [ . . . ]

mk

LGBT cadets ( and seniors) have showing up at encampment and other activities for over 70 years so far without major problems.

Probably because they are there to train, not socialize.

All are welcome.

Ned Lee
National Cadet Programs Officer

Майор Хаткевич

Quote from: Ned on October 28, 2014, 04:02:05 AM
Quote from: sarmed1 on October 28, 2014, 03:46:57 AM
My point being if people hide in the sand on this one, when transgender or gay cadets show up at encampment or some other such activity [ . . . ]

mk

LGBT cadets ( and seniors) have showing up at encampment and other activities for over 70 years so far without major problems.

Probably because they are there to train, not socialize.

All are welcome.

Ned Lee
National Cadet Programs Officer

Exactly. If you think that there were no gay cadets in previous encampments....

a2capt

Quote from: Ned on October 28, 2014, 04:02:05 AM... so far without major problems.
Any chief problems? :P
Quote from: Ned on October 28, 2014, 04:02:05 AMProbably because they are there to train, not socialize.
Imagine that!  >:D

The CyBorg is destroyed

Quote from: sarmed1 on October 28, 2014, 02:44:50 AM
Now there is a big difference between the legal standing of a school district and the private corporation of CAP.

Albeit a private corporation that receives Federal funding and has a stated nondiscrimination policy.
Exiled from GLR-MI-011

Chappie

Concur with the posts of Patrick Harris and Ned Lee (and having participated as a Staff member of encampments since 1997...have never seen any problems and my head is not in the sand, either  :) )
Disclaimer:  Not to be confused with the other user that goes by "Chappy"   :)

Luis R. Ramos

Squadron Safety Officer
Squadron Communication Officer
Squadron Emergency Services Officer