Maj Gen Pineda Misconduct Investigation Hits the News

Started by CAPlikeCrack, December 21, 2006, 02:45:09 PM

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MattPHS2002

FDLE is involved because General Pineda is a special agent with the agency.
1Lt Matt Gamret

NER-PA-002 Drug Demand Reduction Officer

flyguy06

Quote from: mikeylikey on December 21, 2006, 08:20:19 PM
Either way this goes, it is sure to hurt the organization.  This may very well set back what Pineda has worked on since he became NC.  Too bad rumors of inapropriate actions can cause same if not more damage than the actual act of misconduct.

Sad days for all of us.   :-[ 

You can thank the ineternet for that.

flyguy06

Quote from: MattPHS2002 on December 22, 2006, 05:56:52 AM
FDLE is involved because General Pineda is a special agent with the agency.
I know he is a specialagent, but still why would they be invesitgating. I f I worked for UPS and did something wrong in CAP, is UPS going to investigate me? No.. I dont work for UPS by the way. I am a cop too.

MattPHS2002

From what I've read to see if he has potentially violated any of their internal policies.
1Lt Matt Gamret

NER-PA-002 Drug Demand Reduction Officer

lordmonar

Quote from: flyguy06 on December 22, 2006, 05:59:22 AM
Quote from: MattPHS2002 on December 22, 2006, 05:56:52 AM
FDLE is involved because General Pineda is a special agent with the agency.
I know he is a specialagent, but still why would they be invesitgating. I f I worked for UPS and did something wrong in CAP, is UPS going to investigate me? No.. I dont work for UPS by the way. I am a cop too.

If you were in a position of trust with UPS and they got wind of a possible instance of lack of integrity...they could certainly ask you about it, investigate it and fire you for it.
PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP

Major Carrales

Quote from: lordmonar on December 22, 2006, 06:03:53 AM
If you were in a position of trust with UPS and they got wind of a possible instance of lack of integrity...they could certainly ask you about it, investigate it and fire you for it.

Yes, this would very much be an intergrity issue.  Contrary to what we are shown in the slandering police on television (with the notable exception of Sgt Joe Friday, T.J. Hooker and a few others), law enforcement has high standards.  If one commits unethical actions in one "circle" they have precedent to do it in another.

We cannot "compartmentalize" our existance.  Cadets mess up with that on the internet all the time.  Many, as is documented at CABBLOG, feel what they say online cannot hurt them elsewhere.  BALDERDASH!!!

When I began my vocation (I began my winter vavation today by the way) as a teacher I signed a contract that had a "moral terpitude"(sp) clause.  This means if I screw up, even outside of the county or school district, I can be fired with little automatic recourse.

I assume this Law Enforcement organization has a similar element in its policies, but I can only speculate.
"We have been given the power to change CAP, let's keep the momentum going!"

Major Joe Ely "Sparky" Carrales, CAP
Commander
Coastal Bend Cadet Squadron
SWR-TX-454

arajca

Quote from: flyguy06 on December 22, 2006, 05:59:22 AM
Quote from: MattPHS2002 on December 22, 2006, 05:56:52 AM
FDLE is involved because General Pineda is a special agent with the agency.
I know he is a specialagent, but still why would they be invesitgating. I f I worked for UPS and did something wrong in CAP, is UPS going to investigate me? No.. I dont work for UPS by the way. I am a cop too.
There is point that if someone claimed to have completed an advanced management-type course and it gained or furthered their employment, and it turns out they cheated to complete the course, then the person would have falsified their application/records and that is a firing offense for most companies and almost every LE agency I know.

When something like this breaks, the company or agency has an obligation to investigate, even if just to clear the employee.

DNall

I believe it specifically said they were investigating to see if there were violations of internal agency policy & proceedure (presumably ethics rules), as well as assuring no crime was committed. It's perfectly normal for them to do a review to ensure their hands are clean & his credibility is intact for their own purposes. However, the accusation involves falsificiation of official federal documents, either directly or causing another to do so, that is a crime. One that lands right in the territory of perjury, which is generally regarded poorly on the record of a law enforcement officer.

Again though, we don't really know anything & this is best left to the formal investigation.

flyguy06

Of course if anythoing does happen to Pineda. CAP will have another milestone. Its frist female National Commander though by default.

Major Carrales

Quote from: flyguy06 on December 22, 2006, 06:54:07 AM
Of course if anythoing does happen to Pineda. CAP will have another milestone. Its frist female National Commander though by default.

I was thinking about that earlier today while I was exercising...I don't have a problem with that.

CAP always had opportunities for women even back during WWII.
"We have been given the power to change CAP, let's keep the momentum going!"

Major Joe Ely "Sparky" Carrales, CAP
Commander
Coastal Bend Cadet Squadron
SWR-TX-454

Smokey

Law enforcement agencies routinely have the right to conduct investigations of their personnel even for off-duty conduct.  When you become a cop you give up certain rights in a way.  Any off-duty conduct that may reflect poorly on the agency is often grounds for discipline.  It'a not like the private sector. If you made cars for GM, or sold refrigerators, or were paparattzi (sp) your employer would not be able to discipline you in the same manner. But law enforcement can control your off-duty life and the courts have upheld that right.
If you stand for nothing, you will fall for anything.
To err is human, to blame someone else shows good management skills.

lordmonar

Quote from: Smokey on December 22, 2006, 07:51:23 AM
Law enforcement agencies routinely have the right to conduct investigations of their personnel even for off-duty conduct.  When you become a cop you give up certain rights in a way.  Any off-duty conduct that may reflect poorly on the agency is often grounds for discipline.  It'a not like the private sector. If you made cars for GM, or sold refrigerators, or were paparattzi (sp) your employer would not be able to discipline you in the same manner. But law enforcement can control your off-duty life and the courts have upheld that right.

Yes they can....they just don't care.  If you are a refrigerator salesman, they may not care that you have 20 speeding tickets and a couple of DUI's...but they have the right to make the decision of keeping you or not based on your "off duty" conduct.

Anyone in a "position of trust" can be fired if they show they cannot be trusted.

Do many organizations go out of their way to investigate their employees?  Not really...but you would be surprised how many.  Just remember that any employer can fire you for not trusting you.  The local Mc Donald's Manager can fire you if he finds out you have been charged and/or convicted of theft for instance.  He could fire you for any violations of the law by saying it shows a lack of self discipline and not what is wanted in a Mc Donald's employee.

Let this be a warning to anyone out there, who thinks that there is some invisible barrier between their "work life" and their "private life".  It does not exist.
PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP

JohnKachenmeister

Quote from: RiverAux on December 21, 2006, 03:15:07 PM
Its been a while since I looked at this, but is there a "Recreational Pilot" license or am I thinking of something else?  

I can think of only one way a pilot that was qualified to fly a CAP plane would end up taking only 2 flights in 7 years --- they never really wanted to fly in the first place.   Someone who has been a pilot for at least 7 years but who only has about 200 hours of flying obviously hasn't devoted a lot of effort to it.  Heck, just 3 hours a month over that period would put you over 250 hours and I would expect most competent pilots to want at least that much proficiency flying.

There IS a "Recreational Pilot" license, but it isn't enough to fly CAP planes.  A "Recreational Pilot" can only fly in day VFR conditions, no more than 50 miles from his base, no more than 1 pax, no more than (I think) 180 hp engines, fixed gear only, fixed pitch prop only, and no flight into Class B airspace.  There might be some more restrictions, and I might have gotten some wrong, but that's the basics.  You cannot take a form 5 checkride with the RP license, and you cannot wear the wings, but you probably could wear the solo badge.
Another former CAP officer

flyguy06

Quote from: arajca on December 22, 2006, 06:29:31 AM
Quote from: flyguy06 on December 22, 2006, 05:59:22 AM
Quote from: MattPHS2002 on December 22, 2006, 05:56:52 AM
FDLE is involved because General Pineda is a special agent with the agency.
I know he is a specialagent, but still why would they be invesitgating. I f I worked for UPS and did something wrong in CAP, is UPS going to investigate me? No.. I dont work for UPS by the way. I am a cop too.
There is point that if someone claimed to have completed an advanced management-type course and it gained or furthered their employment, and it turns out they cheated to complete the course, then the person would have falsified their application/records and that is a firing offense for most companies and almost every LE agency I know.

When something like this breaks, the company or agency has an obligation to investigate, even if just to clear the employee.

Ok, but a CAP course will not advance his standing with FDLE. He's already a senor special agent. I understand integrity, but lack of integrity is not against the law. Its sounds nice to say things like we should have integrity but in the real world 90% of people do not have it.

JohnKachenmeister

Quote from: flyguy06 on December 22, 2006, 05:54:55 AM
Quote from: CAPlikeCrack on December 21, 2006, 07:52:41 PM
The hot water is getting hotter...

Maj Gen Pineda now being investigated by the Florida Department of Law Enforcement, according to the Miami Herald:

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/local/states/florida/counties/broward_county/16291787.htm

Why would the FDLE be involved? Its not a crime to cheat. Its just unethical which in this country is also not a crime.

Actually, I think there IS a crime here.  One has to sign a certification that the work submitted is one's own, and the TCO has to sign a statement to certify that the test was properly administered.  Signing statements known to be false to a government agency is an offense.  If you don't believe me, ask Martha Stewart.
Another former CAP officer

flyguy06

Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on December 22, 2006, 02:57:58 PM
Quote from: RiverAux on December 21, 2006, 03:15:07 PM
Its been a while since I looked at this, but is there a "Recreational Pilot" license or am I thinking of something else?  

I can think of only one way a pilot that was qualified to fly a CAP plane would end up taking only 2 flights in 7 years --- they never really wanted to fly in the first place.   Someone who has been a pilot for at least 7 years but who only has about 200 hours of flying obviously hasn't devoted a lot of effort to it.  Heck, just 3 hours a month over that period would put you over 250 hours and I would expect most competent pilots to want at least that much proficiency flying.
It was a typo for goodness sake. Not worth discussing. The news reporter doesnt understand proitand private pilot versus recreational pilot. If I tell a non pilot that I fly for fun, they will naturally assume recreational. They dont read FAA regs
There IS a "Recreational Pilot" license, but it isn't enough to fly CAP planes.  A "Recreational Pilot" can only fly in day VFR conditions, no more than 50 miles from his base, no more than 1 pax, no more than (I think) 180 hp engines, fixed gear only, fixed pitch prop only, and no flight into Class B airspace.  There might be some more restrictions, and I might have gotten some wrong, but that's the basics.  You cannot take a form 5 checkride with the RP license, and you cannot wear the wings, but you probably could wear the solo badge.

JCJ

Quote from: spy on December 21, 2006, 11:43:56 PM
So how many IG investigations is Pineda under now?  This one and I heard there is another one that was brought up at the BOG meeting.

This is a price paid for strong senior leadershp.  Someone won't be happy, and all it takes to start an IG investigation is a pen, stationery and postage.

Maj. Gen. Pineda has spoken to the allegation and is doing the exacly correct thing by calling for a full investigation.  CAP and FDLE are doing the right thing by properly and thoroughly investigating the allegation (even though the allegation seems to have a lot of inconsistencies).

The IG complaint system is very fair and well organized.  I assume that the FDLE process is as well.  We should simply let the process(es) work.

Of course if the allegation is demonstrated to be false, the accuser and publisher may have substantial personal liability if a defamation suit were later filed against them.

Unless there is a change in status IAW our Constitution & Bylaws, Maj. Gen. Pineda remains our National Commander and it remains our duty to continue to follow his leadership.  Anyone who can't do that might consider donating their time and services to one of the many other volunteer service organizations available.

Major_Chuck

I'll be the first to admit that Tony Pineda doesn't rank high on my list of favorite commanding officers, he's done stuff that I disagree with but done it within the framework of the CAP Bylaws and Regulations. 

I want to throw this back onto Skip Munger and his "News of the Force" online tabloid and tidbit site.  Munger makes no bones about his dislike and displeasure of Tony Pineda, a fued that has been raging for many years going back to when Pineda was Florida Wing King.  What I find interesting is that he's been able to bring in someone from the Miami Herald (could have the newspaper wrong) to add some legitimate news reporting to his vendetta. 

This can take two routes,  one prove to be true then Pineda should resign.  The other route is that it is proven groundless and then Pineda should bring every bit of legal force he can to shut Munger down.

I am more concerned about the CAP public image.  We went through enough with Wheless and his scandal.  We don't need another one. 

-CC
Chuck Cranford
SGT, TNCO VA OCS
Virginia Army National Guard

JohnKachenmeister

Quote from: flyguy06 on December 22, 2006, 03:14:53 PM
Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on December 22, 2006, 02:57:58 PM
Quote from: RiverAux on December 21, 2006, 03:15:07 PM
Its been a while since I looked at this, but is there a "Recreational Pilot" license or am I thinking of something else?  

I can think of only one way a pilot that was qualified to fly a CAP plane would end up taking only 2 flights in 7 years --- they never really wanted to fly in the first place.   Someone who has been a pilot for at least 7 years but who only has about 200 hours of flying obviously hasn't devoted a lot of effort to it.  Heck, just 3 hours a month over that period would put you over 250 hours and I would expect most competent pilots to want at least that much proficiency flying.
It was a typo for goodness sake. Not worth discussing. The news reporter doesnt understand proitand private pilot versus recreational pilot. If I tell a non pilot that I fly for fun, they will naturally assume recreational. They dont read FAA regs
There IS a "Recreational Pilot" license, but it isn't enough to fly CAP planes.  A "Recreational Pilot" can only fly in day VFR conditions, no more than 50 miles from his base, no more than 1 pax, no more than (I think) 180 hp engines, fixed gear only, fixed pitch prop only, and no flight into Class B airspace.  There might be some more restrictions, and I might have gotten some wrong, but that's the basics.  You cannot take a form 5 checkride with the RP license, and you cannot wear the wings, but you probably could wear the solo badge.

I know, Flyguy.  I worked Public Affairs in the Army and in CAP, and there is no mistake too stupid for a civilian journalist to avoid making.  I only mentioned it as an instructional point to RiverAux who was questioning the term.
Another former CAP officer

flyguy06

Quote from: Major Carrales on December 22, 2006, 06:57:52 AM
Quote from: flyguy06 on December 22, 2006, 06:54:07 AM
Of course if anythoing does happen to Pineda. CAP will have another milestone. Its frist female National Commander though by default.

I was thinking about that earlier today while I was exercising...I don't have a problem with that.

CAP always had opportunities for women even back during WWII.

Nobody mentioned that there would be a problem. Why would you even suggest that?