What does a C\Basic wear for rank?

[Omar]

I've read the regs and old message board postings but...

What rank should a new cadet who has just joined wear on the BDU and Blues collar?

The reg says CAP cutouts are no longer worn on the collars (opposite the Cadet rank insignia).

Omar

[jeders]

Basics still wear CAP cutouts

Cadet members without grade wear metal device on both sides of the collar.

[MIKE]

Cadet Airman Basic - C/AB is the proper title.  Pet peeve.

[Eclipse]

Basics still wear CAP cutouts

Cadet members without grade wear metal device on both sides of the collar.

Ditto for senior members without grade - and a pet peeve of mine is that this is the embroidered grade for officers seniors, NOT metal pins.

I'd be curious where you read the cutouts are not worn.  Sounds like a mis-read of having cadets and seniors with grade wear it on both collars.

[DC]

Metal CAP Cutouts on both collars. C/Amn and above wear their grade insignia on both collars.

And yes, Cadet Basic is an old hold over, it is Cadet Airman Basic - C/AB

Basics still wear CAP cutouts

Cadet members without grade wear metal device on both sides of the collar.

Ditto for senior members without grade - and a pet peeve of mine is that this is the embroidered grade for officers seniors, NOT metal pins.

I'd be curious where you read the cutouts are not worn.  Sounds like a mis-read of having cadets and seniors with grade wear it on both collars.

He misinterpreted the elimination of having rank on one side and cutouts on the other for everyone except C/ABs and SMWOGs.

[SSgt Rudin]

Basics still wear CAP cutouts

Cadet members without grade wear metal device on both sides of the collar.

Ditto for senior members without grade - and a pet peeve of mine is that this is the embroidered grade for officers seniors, NOT metal pins.

I'd be curious where you read the cutouts are not worn.  Sounds like a mis-read of having cadets and seniors with grade wear it on both collars.

Anyone else seen a bunch of SMWOG running around wearing blank grey epaulets? Maybe it's just a Florida thing. What makes me even madder is at wing conference I mentioned it to the Officer(name retracted) who was giving a class on uniforms for senior members and he flat out told me he wasn't going to mention it in his class because that is what he wore when he was a SMWOG and that is what he thinks should be worn, even if the 39-1 says something different.

[Hawk200]

Anyone else seen a bunch of SMWOG running around wearing blank grey epaulets? Maybe it's just a Florida thing. What makes me even madder is at wing conference I mentioned it to the Officer(name retracted) who was giving a class on uniforms for senior members and he flat out told me he wasn't going to mention it in his class because that is what he wore when he was a SMWOG and that is what he thinks should be worn, even if the 39-1 says something different.

I haven't seen it, but I keep hearing about it. It's an example of "someone told me so, so it must be true". I see a related issue of flags being worn on the right sleeve of flightsuits.

It's amusing how some people will take something they hear as gospel, but will argue til they pass out about the stuff that's mandated in our publications.

[DC]

I wonder where that came from... *cough*Vanguard!*cough*

If they are being sold people assume they are allowed. It is logical, if the official supplier of uniform accesories sells something, you would think you are allowed to wear it...

[Hawk200]

I wonder where that came from... *cough*Vanguard!*cough*

If they are being sold people assume they are allowed. It is logical, if the official supplier of uniform accesories sells something, you would think you are allowed to wear it...

The blank epaulet is actually a legitimate uniform item (or used to be, not sure about this week). The problem is that it's only used by NCO's, where rank insignia is pinned on it. People are making the assumption that it is for SMWOG's.

[Omar]

Basics still wear CAP cutouts

Cadet members without grade wear metal device on both sides of the collar.

Ditto for senior members without grade - and a pet peeve of mine is that this is the embroidered grade for officers seniors, NOT metal pins.

I'd be curious where you read the cutouts are not worn.  Sounds like a mis-read of having cadets and seniors with grade wear it on both collars.

25 January 2008
MEMORANDUM FOR ALL CAP UNIT COMMANDERS
FROM: CC
SUBJECT: Changes to CAPM 39-1

2.
b. Cadet Enlisted Grade Insignia. Effective 10 July 2007, cadet enlisted
members are now authorized to wear grade insignia on both collars or lapels of the Air
Force service coat or light blue shirt. The CAP cutout will no longer be worn.
Mandatory wear date for this change is 1 March 2008.

I was just not finding where the information on C\AB's should wear.

Probably just a matter of semantics, but I took "...will no longer be worn" literally.


EDIT: fixed beige-on-white text to make readable-TA

[jeders]

Basics still wear CAP cutouts

Cadet members without grade wear metal device on both sides of the collar.

Ditto for senior members without grade - and a pet peeve of mine is that this is the embroidered grade for officers seniors, NOT metal pins.

I'd be curious where you read the cutouts are not worn.  Sounds like a mis-read of having cadets and seniors with grade wear it on both collars.

25 January 2008
MEMORANDUM FOR ALL CAP UNIT COMMANDERS
FROM: CC
SUBJECT: Changes to CAPM 39-1

2.
b. Cadet Enlisted Grade Insignia. Effective 10 July 2007, cadet enlisted
members are now authorized to wear grade insignia on both collars or lapels of the Air
Force service coat or light blue shirt. The CAP cutout will no longer be worn.
Mandatory wear date for this change is 1 March 2008.

I was just not finding where the information on C\AB's should wear.

Probably just a matter of semantics, but I took "...will no longer be worn" literally.


EDIT: fixed beige-on-white text to make readable-TA

It meant cutouts will no longer be worn on the collar if you wear rank. No rank, keep wearing the cutouts since those are worn on the right AND left collar already.

But the confusion is somewhat understandable.

[JayT]

Basics still wear CAP cutouts

Cadet members without grade wear metal device on both sides of the collar.

Ditto for senior members without grade - and a pet peeve of mine is that this is the embroidered grade for officers seniors, NOT metal pins.

I'd be curious where you read the cutouts are not worn.  Sounds like a mis-read of having cadets and seniors with grade wear it on both collars.

Anyone else seen a bunch of SMWOG running around wearing blank grey epaulets? Maybe it's just a Florida thing. What makes me even madder is at wing conference I mentioned it to the Officer(name retracted) who was giving a class on uniforms for senior members and he flat out told me he wasn't going to mention it in his class because that is what he wore when he was a SMWOG and that is what he thinks should be worn, even if the 39-1 says something different.

It's an NYWG thing to.

[MIKE]

Not just NYWG, 'cause I've seen it here too.

[SSgt Rudin]

I wonder where that came from... *cough*Vanguard!*cough*

If they are being sold people assume they are allowed. It is logical, if the official supplier of uniform accesories sells something, you would think you are allowed to wear it...

The blank epaulet is actually a legitimate uniform item (or used to be, not sure about this week). The problem is that it's only used by NCO's, where rank insignia is pinned on it. People are making the assumption that it is for SMWOG's.

They are technically not authorized any more, 39-1 was changed to embroidered epaulets for Senior NCO's the problem? if you try to order them from vanguard they send you blue ones for the corporate uniform(that are really poorly made), when you try to get them exchanged they say "Oh those are the only ones we have." So in comes the question, if the item you need to comply with uniform regulations is not available are you not in compliance by doing the next best thing?

[Hawk200]

So in comes the question, if the item you need to comply with uniform regulations is not available are you not in compliance by doing the next best thing?

You're still not in compliance, unfortunately, it's out of your control. I'd suggest wearing an alternate uniform of some type (such as BDU's, flightsuit or utility uniform) instead of the dressier clothes. Tell your commander that you don't have what you need yet, and neither does Vanguard.

It's the one major problem with phasing stuff in. Stuff gets required too quick, and there is no supply to meet the demand.

[SSgt Rudin]

So in comes the question, if the item you need to comply with uniform regulations is not available are you not in compliance by doing the next best thing?

You're still not in compliance, unfortunately, it's out of your control. I'd suggest wearing an alternate uniform of some type (such as BDU's, flightsuit or utility uniform) instead of the dressier clothes. Tell your commander that you don't have what you need yet, and neither does Vanguard.

It's the one major problem with phasing stuff in. Stuff gets required too quick, and there is no supply to meet the demand.

I guess I was just confused at the time as to why they can make the blue ones (the Air Force does not make SSgt blue epaulets) but they couldn't make the grey ones.  Doesn't matter now since I have traded my stripes for bars, but still. OH and wearing BDU's to wing conference wasn't a feasible solution neither was spending $100 on a corporate uniform just because Vanguard doesn't have the $7 epaulets I needed. 

[Pylon]

Basics still wear CAP cutouts

Cadet members without grade wear metal device on both sides of the collar.

Ditto for senior members without grade - and a pet peeve of mine is that this is the embroidered grade for officers seniors, NOT metal pins.

I'd be curious where you read the cutouts are not worn.  Sounds like a mis-read of having cadets and seniors with grade wear it on both collars.

25 January 2008
MEMORANDUM FOR ALL CAP UNIT COMMANDERS
FROM: CC
SUBJECT: Changes to CAPM 39-1

2.
b. Cadet Enlisted Grade Insignia. Effective 10 July 2007, cadet enlisted
members are now authorized to wear grade insignia on both collars or lapels of the Air
Force service coat or light blue shirt. The CAP cutout will no longer be worn.
Mandatory wear date for this change is 1 March 2008.

I was just not finding where the information on C\AB's should wear.

Probably just a matter of semantics, but I took "...will no longer be worn" literally.


EDIT: fixed beige-on-white text to make readable-TA

Here's the differentiation in the Interim Change Letter.   The ICL directs cadets to stop wearing grade insignia on one side and the CAP cutout on the other.  It directs them to wear grade insignia on both collars.

However, grade insignia for Cadets Airman Basic (properly abbreviated per CAPR 52-16 as "C/AB") is the CAP cutout.  So the cadets are in full compliance by wearing, as directed by both CAPM 39-1 and that ICL, to wear their grade insignia -the metal CAP cutouts- on both collars.

Fin.   

[DC]

Simply, the grade insignia for C/AB is the cutouts. So, per the ICL that is worn on both collars (as it always has)

This is why they need to update 39-1 already. These days instead of telling a cadet that he can find uniform regs in 39-1 I have to tell them, "Okay, go look in 39-1, then go look up the ICL dated XX/XX/XX and follow that. It's rediculous.

[brasda91]

This has been covered before.  I called national myself and CAP cut-outs are worn until the cadet earns his C/Amn grade.

[airdad]

Basics still wear CAP cutouts

Cadet members without grade wear metal device on both sides of the collar.

Ditto for senior members without grade - and a pet peeve of mine is that this is the embroidered grade for officers seniors, NOT metal pins.

I'd be curious where you read the cutouts are not worn.  Sounds like a mis-read of having cadets and seniors with grade wear it on both collars.

Anyone else seen a bunch of SMWOG running around wearing blank grey epaulets? Maybe it's just a Florida thing. What makes me even madder is at wing conference I mentioned it to the Officer(name retracted) who was giving a class on uniforms for senior members and he flat out told me he wasn't going to mention it in his class because that is what he wore when he was a SMWOG and that is what he thinks should be worn, even if the 39-1 says something different.

It's an NYWG thing to.

Not in my group, it's not