Physcial Fitness

[Майор Хаткевич]

I've always struggled with my mile run. My best was a 7:19 in 8th grade or something. I've also struggled with my weight since moving to the US, packing up pounds as fast as I was growing in height. The mile was a forgone conclusion for me by Earhart, and I had to try the shuttle a number of times to hit it.

I don't blame anyone for the standards, as I know a number of people who can meet all the requirements, even the 6:23 mile for the Spaatz. Personally, I'm not sure if I am one of those people, and for that reason I am thankful for the shuttle option. While I'm getting in shape right now by loosing weight and then planning on exercising to meet the standards, I know my strengths (Sit-ups, Sit-and-Reach, Shuttle) and my weaknesses (Mile run and Push-ups). Does that mean I like it? No, not really, and I plan on working on those areas. But in the meantime, I am encouraged that I should be able to pass PT with the standards available.

P.S. Thinking about the president's challenge, when was the last time they did a re-evaluation of the standards? As much as it hurts to admit, my generation sits on it's ass a lot more then people did 10-20 years ago. 

Looking at what I found on the PC website:
At 75% (Spaatz)
Pushups - 46 (1 per 3 second)
Mile - 6:23 (Minutes:Seconds)
Sit and Reach - 40 (Centimeters)
Shuttle Run - 8.9 (Seconds) (6.9 at 100%!!!)
Sit-ups - 51 (One Minute)

CAP Standards:
Pushups - 49 (1 per 3 second)
Mile - 6:23 (Minutes:Seconds)
Sit and Reach - 40 (Centimeters)
Shuttle Run - 8.9 (Seconds)
Sit-ups - 51 (One Minute)

Not much of a difference except on the push-ups. Still, making a graph out of the stats on the events, it's basically linear with a huge jump to 100% with the exception of the Push-ups which seem stable in growth at each 5% mark.

P.P.S. I am on the phone with the PresChal organization, and the original testing was done in 1985, and the latest statistics were taken in 1998. I asked them if/when they may be doing another round of testing, and was told that the current administration is looking into doing another round of testing within the next few years.

He told me the standards from the 1985 program at the 75% for males 17+, and it is all the same as the 1998 standards/CAP standards, yet the push ups weren't measured that year.

[Ned]

I have a big problem with our PT program.  Our cadet program is a citizenship program not just a PT program. 

Not quite.

Although we hope that all successful cadets become successful citizens, doctrinally the CAP cadet program is a leadership program.  (CAPR 52-16,  para 1-1.)

And physical fitness is one of the five elements that comprise the program.

Yet, we tell kids they can't advance in grade AT ALL, or participate in some activities, until they pass the PT test. 

True enough.  But it is the same for every other aspect of our program.  Cadets must pass tests in each achievement to earn promotion.  How is PT any different than aerospace or leadership?

Some cadets have difficulty with our academic standards, some might  be especially challenged by the PT standards.  It sounds like your son fell into the latter group.

I will forever be angry and disappointed with regard to my son's CAP experience.  It's as if we institutionalized peer pressure and label some kids as losers, unworthy of membership.  The youth programs (Sea Cadets and Law Enforcement Explorers) I was a member of as a kid managed to sell us on physical fitness without casting away members with challenges.  It's a shame CAP can't seem to do the same.

Eric,

I am truly sorry that your son was disappointed with his CAP experience.  I honestly wish he could have had the same successes in the program that you and I have had.

No member should ever be the target of ridicule or humiliation.  Although such experiences may be common in school or in the neighborhood, CAP has strong standards to protect our cadets. 

Respect for Others.
CAP cadets require an atmoshpere of mutual respect and courtesy to learn and grow as leaders.  Accordingly, CAP cadets must treat each other and their senior member leaders with common courtesy and respect.  CAP cadets will not intentionally insult or mock other members, and will not use racial, cultural , or ethnic slurs at any time.

As well as our Core Value of Respect.

4. Respect.  CAP members come from all walks of life.  Therefore, it is extremely important that members treat each other with fairness and dignity, and work together as a team.

No CP leader worth her/his salt would tolerate any sort of ridicule of a cadet based on an inability to pass a given PT test or because of a perceived lack of physical fitness.

It sounds like that didn't happen in your son's squadron, and we can and should do better in that regard.



It is also worth remembering that our PT standards are based on the validated President's Challenge data derived from extensive testing of real students nationwide.  And we chose to set the Phase I standards at the 25th percentile, meaning that 75% of current American youth already meet the standards for their age and gender.

IOW, these aren't some arbitrary standards that some NHQ staffer picked out of thin air.  They represent the best standards we could find, based on actual performance of Americans in our age cohort.

I spent some time explaining how we derived the numbers a little earlier in this thread.

Ned Lee
National Cadet Advisor
(Cool job, crummy job title)

[PHall]

I have a big problem with our PT program.  Our cadet program is a citizenship program not just a PT program.  Yet, we tell kids they can't advance in grade AT ALL, or participate in some activities, until they pass the PT test.  While that may be fine for some kids, others who don't join already fit are excluded and become discouraged.  Instead of establishing a brick wall so early in the program I'd prefer to see it ramp up a bit more slowly.  We can encourage fitness without excluding some kids from CAP.

Yes, my opinion is sour grapes.  My son joined CAP with me.  He was a skinny couch potato.  Not a fat body but not speedy either.  He worked hard, practicing the PT events several times a week at home.  The shuttle run, in particular, was a challenge for him.  He could pull it off at home, but when tested on a waxed concrete floor during a meeting he usually didn't make it.  To be fair, some other kids made the time.  After most of a year he had no interest in renewing his membership.  Instead of working with him over time we created a barrier to enjoying the social and academic benefits of CAP.

It's ironic we hold the cadets to challenging standards but refuse to do the same for our senior members.  We invent fat and fuzzy uniforms to parade in front of the cadets while telling them they can't come out to play unless they get with the program.  Really cool double standard there.

I will forever be angry and disappointed with regard to my son's CAP experience.  It's as if we institutionalized peer pressure and label some kids as losers, unworthy of membership.  The youth programs (Sea Cadets and Law Enforcement Explorers) I was a member of as a kid managed to sell us on physical fitness without casting away members with challenges.  It's a shame CAP can't seem to do the same.

Rant over.   

Was he not allowed to do the mile run? You don't have to do both the mile run and the shuttle run, it's one or the other.

Usually cadets who have trouble with one can usually pass the other.

[wuzafuzz]

Was he not allowed to do the mile run? You don't have to do both the mile run and the shuttle run, it's one or the other.

Usually cadets who have trouble with one can usually pass the other.

He was, but had concentrated his efforts on the shuttle run. 

[wuzafuzz]

No CP leader worth her/his salt would tolerate any sort of ridicule of a cadet based on an inability to pass a given PT test or because of a perceived lack of physical fitness.

It sounds like that didn't happen in your son's squadron, and we can and should do better in that regard.

Ned Lee
National Cadet Advisor
(Cool job, crummy job title)

I didn't mean to imply cadet leadership hazed him.  It was simply that the first CPFT and promotion is the cost of entry to so many things.  A kid who doesn't pass right away is denied access to so many cool things that CAP may not be interesting enough to them to continue trying.  I would prefer to see it ramp up more slowly.  Hook them with some cool stuff and perhaps they will be more motivated to succeed.  If not, they still have some fun for their membership dollars.

[Майор Хаткевич]

I didn't mean to imply cadet leadership hazed him.  It was simply that the first CPFT and promotion is the cost of entry to so many things.  A kid who doesn't pass right away is denied access to so many cool things that CAP may not be interesting enough to them to continue trying.  I would prefer to see it ramp up more slowly.  Hook them with some cool stuff and perhaps they will be more motivated to succeed.  If not, they still have some fun for their membership dollars.

A C/AB  can still have fun at the unit. I've dealt with a number of cadets who were unable to pass the Curry PT on the first or second try. Did I feel saddened by the fact that their beginning of the CAP is being delayed? You bet. Was there much to do about it? Not really.

Besides working with the cadet, and explaining on how to improve, little can be done. We can't just hand them their first stripe, they need to earn it. If we were to give them the first, it would create expectations for the next one down the line, and resentment from those who did pass all the requirements.

If the cadets are getting discouraged, then something needed to be done to keep them motivated. I hated nothing more than seeing people drop off after the first month or two due to being unable to pass the Curry. I viewed it as a shame, and a loss for both my unit and the cadet, because they are missing out on such a great opportunity.

When I started CAP, I was your typical youth. I wasn't a bad kid, I had some normal goals, and I was afraid of public speaking to death. By the time I was a C/SSgt, and in 8th grade, I was still afraid of public speaking, but having to learn how to drill a flight (and the fear of screwing up!), slowly edged me out of that particular fear.

Now I'm in college, and while most of my peers groan when speaking projects are assigned, I take them for what they are, and look forward to completing mine.

[davidsinn]

Was he not allowed to do the mile run? You don't have to do both the mile run and the shuttle run, it's one or the other.

Usually cadets who have trouble with one can usually pass the other.

He was, but had concentrated his efforts on the shuttle run.

Right there is the problem.

I am very out of shape right now. I could work up to a halfway decent mile time in less than a month if I put my mind to it. I could not get a decent shuttle run time in a month because you can't beat physics. It take less effort to keep a fat body moving then it does to get that fat body to change directions repeatedly. (Note: fat body comments are referring to myself not your son  )

[Майор Хаткевич]

I agree on the Mile/w. Shuttle, but only at a certain point.

They would switch up a number of times over the phases.

In phase one, most of the cadets that were overweight passed with the shuttle.

In phase two, it is somewhat of a toss up.

Phase three the mile is harder to beat than lucking out with the shuttle.

In Phase Four it takes a special training program to make the shuttle work.

[jimmydeanno]

I appreciate the Shuttle Run as an alternative for us up in the North Country that end up having to test their cadets PT in sub-zero degree weather, in feet of snow.  30 feet is easily found in our meeting place.

My only contention with the shuttle run is the timing issue.  The results are down to the 1/10 of a second.  People can't push the stopwatch button that fast and if it takes you 1 or 2 tenths of a second to depress the button, the kid fails...

The level of accuracy required doesn't allow any flexibility at all.

[Майор Хаткевич]

I appreciate the Shuttle Run as an alternative for us up in the North Country that end up having to test their cadets PT in sub-zero degree weather, in feet of snow.  30 feet is easily found in our meeting place.

My only contention with the shuttle run is the timing issue.  The results are down to the 1/10 of a second.  People can't push the stopwatch button that fast and if it takes you 1 or 2 tenths of a second to depress the button, the kid fails...

The level of accuracy required doesn't allow any flexibility at all.

Beyond getting speed cameras, there is not much to do. It's a judgment call as it is based on the timers perception of when the cadet crosses the finish line.

I believe with a quick stop watch and good reaction time, the shuttle can be clocked in in as little as .06 seconds. Of course this was a SM at 22 years old. I'd start adding .03 seconds for each decade or so of age. 

And again, it comes down to how you start it as well. Do you start the clock when the cadet moves, or do you say "go" and cadet looses .1-.2 seconds in his reaction to movement?

Do you pass a Phase IV cadet with a 9.05 (9.0 needed) by writing it off as trigger lag?

[davidsinn]

Ya'll need to go volunteer to be a timer at a track meet. That'll teach you how to time running events. I had 4 years experience timing when I was in high school.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Ya'll need to go volunteer to be a timer at a track meet. That'll teach you how to time running events. I had 4 years experience timing when I was in high school.

How does a multi mile run compare with 120ft?

[jimmydeanno]

How does a multi mile run compare with 120ft?

Track meets usually don't have "multi-mile" runs.  100 meter, hurdles, etc.  All the events are (usually) timed down to the 1/100th of a second...

[Майор Хаткевич]

Track meets usually don't have "multi-mile" runs.  100 meter, hurdles, etc.  All the events are (usually) timed down to the 1/100th of a second...

My bad, I was thinking CC running.

But the point still stands that you are going off the performance of A, B, C, etc., not a set time.

If A ran a 9.13, you probably clocked a 9.17, or similar.

To go on a side rant: being physically fit and military service in the US: http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=9260

[davidsinn]

Track meets usually don't have "multi-mile" runs.  100 meter, hurdles, etc.  All the events are (usually) timed down to the 1/100th of a second...

My bad, I was thinking CC running.

But the point still stands that you are going off the performance of A, B, C, etc., not a set time.

If A ran a 9.13, you probably clocked a 9.17, or similar.

To go on a side rant: being physically fit and military service in the US: http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=9260

That's where the: send the adults to time at a track meet comes in. I was extremely accurate with a clock because I ran the clock for basketball and track for 4 years. It just takes a little practice to get it down.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Ok, so what do you do?

Do you clock it in a microsecond earlier?

Because that is the only way it would help in CAPs case.

[davidsinn]

Ok, so what do you do?

Do you clock it in a microsecond earlier?

Because that is the only way it would help in CAPs case.

You learn how much of a lag you have between seeing the event and pushing the button. Then you command a button push a few microseconds before the person hits the line so that they hit the line at the same time the command hits your finger and your finger reacts. It takes practice and being aware of yourself.

Also I wouldn't have the same person start them as times. That way the clock start reaction time and the cadet's reaction time should be about the same.