No More NCC

[Eclipse]

ESPN "10 most grueling hits of NCC!"

[Phil Hirons, Jr.]

Inspection?  Another barn-burner of an event that will likely NOT get covered on The Ocho.

Maybe on ESPN12 "The Doce" (dos-say).

Got to love a good Dodge Ball reference.

[Mitchell 1969]

Darin, I think NCC could be used more to showcase our cadet program to the country.  ROI should be considered as to total effect on CAP.  If NCC is utilized to build support for the organization as a whole, then,I would argue, any funds spent on it would be well used.

But, where is the "show" in this showcase?

I'm a D&C guy from way back. My squadron growing up was too small for a drill team, but I was on a very good Army JROTC drill team. I've been a judge at countless Wing level competitions. Even so, I can't picture gathering my neighbors in front of the big screen, pizza and beer at the ready, or buying a ticket to see a live NCC.

NCC is a big deal event for those who are participating in NCC. Just as AYSO Regionals are big deals for those kids and their families. Everybody else? Not so much.

Little League World Series is being followed closely in Nashville. But that's because South Nashville is in it. And, at least, that's a game of skill. I can't see the same excitement being generated by watching to see if one of the 8 NCC teams has a cadet with a speck on his shirt or if last cadet, last element hesitates a fraction of a second on a flanking movement.

No matter how you slice it, with NCC,  the "show" is being IN the show, not watching it.

[Eclipse]

NCC is a big deal event for those who are participating in NCC.

This.

[A.Member]

Darin, I think NCC could be used more to showcase our cadet program to the country.  ROI should be considered as to total effect on CAP.  If NCC is utilized to build support for the organization as a whole, then,I would argue, any funds spent on it would be well used.

But, where is the "show" in this showcase?

I'm a D&C guy from way back. My squadron growing up was too small for a drill team, but I was on a very good Army JROTC drill team. I've been a judge at countless Wing level competitions. Even so, I can't picture gathering my neighbors in front of the big screen, pizza and beer at the ready, or buying a ticket to see a live NCC.

NCC is a big deal event for those who are participating in NCC. Just as AYSO Regionals are big deals for those kids and their families. Everybody else? Not so much.

Little League World Series is being followed closely in Nashville. But that's because South Nashville is in it. And, at least, that's a game of skill. I can't see the same excitement being generated by watching to see if one of the 8 NCC teams has a cadet with a speck on his shirt or if last cadet, last element hesitates a fraction of a second on a flanking movement.

No matter how you slice it, with NCC,  the "show" is being IN the show, not watching it.

So, to me, this touches on part of the problem with the event.   It's essentially held out of the public eye.  Cadet Color Guards/Drill Teams serve as our ambassadors and our showcase material.   They need to be shared publicly. 

The National Cadet Competition needs to be held in a very public place.  This makes it more of an event for all involved and serves as a recruiting tool.   I'd like to see at a large public mall (Mall of America), large public park (Washington DC or a host of other places), state fair....or a host of other similar venues that are free and open to the public.   

Holding the competition in the gymnasium of some university is limiting and spoils an otherwise great opportunity.

[Майор Хаткевич]

NCC is a big deal event for those who are participating in NCC.

This.

+1. Even CG...its just routine CG. Now, if they threw in a performance there... :angel:

[PHall]

The National Cadet Competition needs to be held in a very public place.  This makes it more of an event for all involved and serves as a recruiting tool.   I'd like to see at a large public mall (Mall of America), large public park (Washington DC or a host of other places), state fair....or a host of other similar venues that are free and open to the public.   

Holding the competition in the gymnasium of some university is limiting and spoils an otherwise great opportunity.

Very large public places tend to be costly, which is the reason for the "strategic pause".
How do you propose to pay for the "very large public place"?

[a2capt]

It worked great when they did it in the center of the floor, of the US Air Force Museum hangar #2. In between the Globemaster II and B-52.

[A.Member]

The National Cadet Competition needs to be held in a very public place.  This makes it more of an event for all involved and serves as a recruiting tool.   I'd like to see at a large public mall (Mall of America), large public park (Washington DC or a host of other places), state fair....or a host of other similar venues that are free and open to the public.   

Holding the competition in the gymnasium of some university is limiting and spoils an otherwise great opportunity.

Very large public places tend to be costly, which is the reason for the "strategic pause".
How do you propose to pay for the "very large public place"?

Not necessarily (costly) and renting out a college gymnasium isn't necessarily inexpensive either. 

However, as it comes to for paying for events, it's like all others...come and pay.  Fundamentally, this activity is no different than a NCSA or any other national activity.   The key potential that is being missed with the activity is the recruiting aspect, so diverting a few of the limited dollars available for advertising/marketing to support a public event would not be money wasted.   Dontating space is not unheard of either.

[Mitchell 1969]

[/quote]
So, to me, this touches on part of the problem with the event.   It's essentially held out of the public eye.  Cadet Color Guards/Drill Teams serve as our ambassadors and our showcase material.   They need to be shared publicly. 

The National Cadet Competition needs to be held in a very public place.  This makes it more of an event for all involved and serves as a recruiting tool.   I'd like to see at a large public mall (Mall of America), large public park (Washington DC or a host of other places), state fair....or a host of other similar venues that are free and open to the public.   

Holding the competition in the gymnasium of some university is limiting and spoils an otherwise great opportunity.
[/quote]

Ethel - "Hey, honey, look at this...it's a bunch of people marching in the middle of the mall!"

Fred - "Well how 'bout that! They look pretty sharp!"

ANNOUNCER -"How about a nice round of applause for the team from Southeast Region, Civil Air Patrol!"

CROWD - (clappity clap, clappity clap), "Huzzah!"

ANNOUNCER - And now entering the competition, the team from Pacific Region!"

Ethel - "Oh, look, Fred, they're doing it again!  Oh, look, somebody handed me a brochure...it's a nationwide competition...8 teams...and 8 color guards..."

Fred - "Yeah...they look good, too...I thought we were headed over to Cinnabon?"

Ethel - "Yes, I've got to get these clothes back to Penneys..."

[Eclipse]

Not necessarily (costly) and renting out a college gymnasium isn't necessarily inexpensive either. 

One of these days someone will explain to me why we are forced to "rent" things like public university gymnasiums and billeting, etc.,
even the use of Guard facilities and similar state resources in a lot of wings have non-trivial costs.

We're a quasi-government agency with ties to the military, "Legislative Squadrons", and staff officers specifically appointed to
handle these requests, yet when we need something, we're calling the same 800# everyone else is, and no one has a clue who we are.

[A.Member]

Not necessarily (costly) and renting out a college gymnasium isn't necessarily inexpensive either. 

One of these days someone will explain to me why we are forced to "rent" things like public university gymnasiums and billeting, etc.,
even the use of Guard facilities and similar state resources in a lot of wings have non-trivial costs.

We're a quasi-government agency with ties to the military, "Legislative Squadrons", and staff officers specifically appointed to
handle these requests, yet when we need something, we're calling the same 800# everyone else is, and no one has a clue who we are.

Agreed.   It seems to come down to who's doing the asking and who's being asked.   The answers may not be consistent nor logical. 
Ex.  Want $0 o-flights on a UH-60 or CH-47 (which have reimbursable rates between $5K - $10K per hour)?  "No problem - we'll work out with flight ops...a couple hours per squadron good enough?"   Want overnight billeting in quarters that are not being used?  "Let me get out the rate book and fire up the contract...that'll cost you. "

Sometimes it may even be how we ask.  The art may lie in how to navigate the line between that "quasi-government" entity and the 501(C)3 entity.   

[PHall]

Not necessarily (costly) and renting out a college gymnasium isn't necessarily inexpensive either. 

One of these days someone will explain to me why we are forced to "rent" things like public university gymnasiums and billeting, etc.,
even the use of Guard facilities and similar state resources in a lot of wings have non-trivial costs.

We're a quasi-government agency with ties to the military, "Legislative Squadrons", and staff officers specifically appointed to
handle these requests, yet when we need something, we're calling the same 800# everyone else is, and no one has a clue who we are.

Agreed.   It seems to come down to who's doing the asking and who's being asked.   The answers may not be consistent nor logical. 
Ex.  Want $0 o-flights on a UH-60 or CH-47 (which have reimbursable rates between $5K - $10K per hour)?  "No problem - we'll work out with flight ops...a couple hours per squadron good enough?"   Want overnight billeting in quarters that are not being used?  "Let me get out the rate book and fire up the contract...that'll cost you. "

Sometimes it may even be how we ask.  The art may lie in how to navigate the line between that "quasi-government" entity and the 501(C)3 entity.

The UH-60/CH-47 have to fly anyway to complete training requirements. Our o-flights are classed as "oppertune airlift" and add no extra costs.
Everybody pays to stay in billeting, even the Guard. No one, not even General Officers, stay for free.

[A.Member]

The UH-60/CH-47 have to fly anyway to complete training requirements. Our o-flights are classed as "oppertune airlift" and add no extra costs.
Everybody pays to stay in billeting, even the Guard. No one, not even General Officers, stay for free.

Not entirely true.  In our case, we are not charged billeting.  We even have use of kitchen facilities (or we can pay for catering).

[Spaceman3750]

From what we've been told, NESA uses Atterbury's facilities for free - and that's a LOT of resources.

[PHall]

The UH-60/CH-47 have to fly anyway to complete training requirements. Our o-flights are classed as "oppertune airlift" and add no extra costs.
Everybody pays to stay in billeting, even the Guard. No one, not even General Officers, stay for free.

Not entirely true.  In our case, we are not charged billeting.  We even have use of kitchen facilities (or we can pay for catering).

Where exactly is that?  It's not at a California National Guard facility.

[A.Member]

Where exactly is that?  It's not at a California National Guard facility.

No, it's not.   I've also seen good cooperation/use of facilities for NCSAs.  But I don't question your comment that some could/do charge.  I've heard as much.  So, back to my earlier comment, it's not consistent and that's the real point I was making.

[NIN]

ESPN "10 most grueling hits of NCC!"

Yeah, I can see it sounding like golf meets gymnastics...

Announcer: (whispering) "The Pacific Region color guard team is marching into position.. Oh, thats going to cost them points, Cotton, the senior sergeant is just a half a beat out of step..."

Color Commentator: (also whispering) "Wait for the halt here.... Nailed it! Even a half beat out of step they just took it to the next level.  These cadets are out for blood, Chris, and they know it.  The point spread between them, the Great Lakes team from Michigan and the Southeast team out of Puerto Rico is just so tight, all it will take is one minor error to drop from first to third."

[Mitchell 1969]

Not necessarily (costly) and renting out a college gymnasium isn't necessarily inexpensive either. 

One of these days someone will explain to me why we are forced to "rent" things like public university gymnasiums and billeting, etc.,
even the use of Guard facilities and similar state resources in a lot of wings have non-trivial costs.

We're a quasi-government agency with ties to the military, "Legislative Squadrons", and staff officers specifically appointed to
handle these requests, yet when we need something, we're calling the same 800# everyone else is, and no one has a clue who we are.

Agreed.   It seems to come down to who's doing the asking and who's being asked.   The answers may not be consistent nor logical. 
Ex.  Want $0 o-flights on a UH-60 or CH-47 (which have reimbursable rates between $5K - $10K per hour)?  "No problem - we'll work out with flight ops...a couple hours per squadron good enough?"   Want overnight billeting in quarters that are not being used?  "Let me get out the rate book and fire up the contract...that'll cost you. "

Sometimes it may even be how we ask.  The art may lie in how to navigate the line between that "quasi-government" entity and the 501(C)3 entity.

Nearly 40 years ago, our squadron in an economically disadvantaged area hit the big time. Accommodations at a National Guard Field Artillery battery HQ. Dedicated office space, storage space, use of an interior drill hall, secured parking, great relationship with the Battery CO and 1Sgt. But it all fell apart.

A newly assigned LTC in Sacramento decreed that we had to pay to use the facility. The reg that covered free use referenced "...youth groups, such as Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, etc." Since we were neither, he decided that it didn't apply. No amount of pleading, by CAP and the Battery CO could change his mind.  The LO declined to intervene, with a hearty " That's State, I'm federal."

[ol'fido]

Quote from NIN:

"Innovative drill is not something we do day to day. How about a standard drill obstacle course?  Skillfully navigating a flight from Point A to Point B in an orderly fashion while using the correct commands, and having the cadet execute based on those commands, as opposed to doing things by rote, without getting run over is probably far more "cadet-ish" than "dancing." (yes, I know innovative is no longer that, but you get my point)"

Way back in the shadows of my cadet days was something called the "54 Command Drill Sequence". It was as it stated a sequence of 54 drill commands that a flight would perform. It covered nearly every possible drill command that was in the standard drill manual. The flight would start in a designated location and if they did the sequence right and with the proper timing they would end up in the exact same spot they started out in. That sounds like something that everyone could shoot for.