No More NCC

[a2capt]

There's 7 per Color Guard team, 5 cadets, (3 + Commander, + Alternate) two seniors, at the latest revision of the last few years.  In the earlier 2000's, there were two alternates on Color Guard, though NHQ did not pay for the travel. That's only been the last 6 or so years.  In fact, early on, you were even lucky to get there and get a -beater- vehicle, if one at all. Those old blue vans from the AF.. 

A drill team is 14, plus two. (12 + Commander, + Alternate)

This year, the event was done with three room nights, and six meals at the university, two meals provided by the Air Force, flight lunch style. 

It was nothing like the long drawn out week's worth activity that it had morphed into. Believe it or not, there's value in that, too. The cadets get to know each other, and get to socialize a bit. But it's a hard sell unless you experienced it, I'll admit.

From 1948 through 1965, they'd done NCC at various locations around the country, settling for the last several years on the Air Force Academy from 1960 onward.

1966 to 1975 there was no national competition. Those cadets on Facebook posting the "1947-2013 R.I.P." banner are factually incorrect.  It's not without precedent that NCC has been paused.

Again, in 2000 there was no competition.

Up until 1999, they had pretty much done NCC at Maxwell, and Ellington previously.

in 2001 they started a rotation of every two years they'd move it. That way you'd get twice as much bang for your buck, time and resources with planning the event, the needed venues, and the like, you could use the majority of the planning for two years.  Plus it moved it around, gave variance to the venues, gave "the home team advantage" a break, as it was not always in the same climate, locale, etc.

That worked pretty well it would seem, until late last year when they still had not announced the location, nor dates for the 2013 event. It was not until April that it was finally signed, and even then it wasn't really communicated well. Since it was so late, you've got to figure they had a schedule from the year prior, they just went with it, at the same venue, but done more along the schedule of the typical Wing or Region event where the whole thing is pretty much done in two days. If you use the arrival day for the written exam, you can do that and run eight teams.

Consequently, the team marshaling has -a lot- to do with it, and this year, despite the compressed schedule, the events went the smoothest and most efficient ever, with regards to running the teams through the events.

Dorms at the university are about $30/day, that's a good number to go with, and it's consistent with an event I organize each July where I get two floors of a dorm hall in Kansas City, for 5 nights, plus meals are about $19/day.

So, $50/day per person, plus you've got staff in the 40 range for the entire event, that will come in a day early at least. As they did this year.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Or, take it the way of HGA, and make it a regional event.

They really screwed the pooch on that one, thinking they could condense a 2-week activity into a weekend event.

That can be supplemented by a local program as well.

[coudano]

I would substitute a competitive event over encampment any day.

Well that just depends on what you think the mission of the cadet program is...
If it's to get people to stand REALLY still, and have REALLY sharp timing, and REALLY shiny shoes, and REALLLY creased creases,
then competition is the way to go.

On the other hand, that's REALLY not what the cadet program is about.  at all.
Those are basic airman skillz that we should move past after the first 8 months, for bigger and better things.
(a cadet NCO or officer focusing on those things, apart from teaching it to c/ab-c/sra, is "doing it wrong")

[Eclipse]

+1 and also the below.

That can be supplemented by a local program as well.

As well it should.  HGA was another program where cadets went away to something few people understood,
and then came back with little to show in terms of useful skills for the unit and a shiny cord.

These activities live and die by two factors:

NHQ's ability to communicate their importance and mission relevance to Unit CC's.

Their actual relevance to the mission.

Regardless of personal feelings about a particular activity, when one or both of the above fails, the activity is doomed.

[Майор Хаткевич]

I would substitute a competitive event over encampment any day.

Well that just depends on what you think the mission of the cadet program is...
If it's to get people to stand REALLY still, and have REALLY sharp timing, and REALLY shiny shoes, and REALLLY creased creases,
then competition is the way to go.

On the other hand, that's REALLY not what the cadet program is about.  at all.
Those are basic airman skillz that we should move past after the first 8 months, for bigger and better things.
(a cadet NCO or officer focusing on those things, apart from teaching it to c/ab-c/sra, is "doing it wrong")

I know I took us off topic a bit, but that was in response to Honor Guard Programs.

That said, most of what Honor Guard did was Fancy Color Guard.

Sure, there are some places that did/do Funerals. My flight in 2005 won the DDR Play Award (and that was the last time I did a DDR play, which apparently is a CAP HG mission...). Some places do cordons (maybe).

But the core of Honor Guard is what Color Guards do.

If we want to kill one or the other, I could care less. While I personally loved the fancy rifle movements, I never did a presentation outside the one we did at the home unit after we came back. Still cool, but never really found a local outlet for it.

Parades, Ceremonies, etc, can be done in either HG uniforms or in regular blues as a simple CG. No biggie. Then there's the issue of different movements as opposed to standard drill, and now you have a duality of the same mission.

[Woodsy]

Wait...  NHQ has been paying for travel/lodging for everyone?!?!

Why not have teams pay/fund raise their own way, like almost every other CAP event?  I'm shocked to hear that we were paying for participants!  I understand and support paying expenses for event staff, but not for participants... 

[Tim Day]

Each unit that has cadets must put together an active Color Guard, and / or >all< cadets are required to complete time on a unit CG as part of one or more achievements.

I like this idea, but not necessarily as a specific mandate for all cadets. I think this is one "outside-the-meeting" activity that should be considered as part of "active participation." It's challenging to provide enough time for the cadets to really get good at drill and meet the CP contact hours.

FWIW, my squadron does not have a CG although we are about to start one up. I am gathering adult/SM volunteers so that I can provide practice time outside the meeting with the appropriate supervision.

[a2capt]

Wait...  NHQ has been paying for travel/lodging for everyone?!?!

Why not have teams pay/fund raise their own way, like almost every other CAP event?  I'm shocked to hear that we were paying for participants!  I understand and support paying expenses for event staff, but not for participants...

Like you noted, there is precedent.  It's not like it was a secret.  Yes, perhaps they should make it more like school band competitions where as part of the competition, they need to typically raise funds to go higher up. Wing and in some cases, Region, are simple. Get a van and drive, barracks are cheap. Bring money for about 6 meals at the mess hall.

[lordmonar]

Each unit that has cadets must put together an active Color Guard, and / or >all< cadets are required to complete time on a unit CG as part of one or more achievements.

I like this idea, but not necessarily as a specific mandate for all cadets. I think this is one "outside-the-meeting" activity that should be considered as part of "active participation." It's challenging to provide enough time for the cadets to really get good at drill and meet the CP contact hours.

FWIW, my squadron does not have a CG although we are about to start one up. I am gathering adult/SM volunteers so that I can provide practice time outside the meeting with the appropriate supervision.

I do.

I think that we need to add the color guard drill as part of the SNCO promotion tests....instead of the parade stuff that they have now.

I think outside CG presentations should be a Quality Unit and Squadron of Merit/Distinction grading points.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Each unit that has cadets must put together an active Color Guard, and / or >all< cadets are required to complete time on a unit CG as part of one or more achievements.

I like this idea, but not necessarily as a specific mandate for all cadets. I think this is one "outside-the-meeting" activity that should be considered as part of "active participation." It's challenging to provide enough time for the cadets to really get good at drill and meet the CP contact hours.

FWIW, my squadron does not have a CG although we are about to start one up. I am gathering adult/SM volunteers so that I can provide practice time outside the meeting with the appropriate supervision.

I do.

I think that we need to add the color guard drill as part of the SNCO promotion tests....instead of the parade stuff that they have now.

I think outside CG presentations should be a Quality Unit and Squadron of Merit/Distinction grading points.

While I agree to an extent, I have a feeling the quality of these "presentations" will be hard to prove.

[Mitchell 1969]

The 1966-1975 "hiatus" on National Drill Competition probably had roots in transportation issues. It was common for CAP to get USAF airlift for major activities and the Vietnam War put a crimp on that.

Even so, drill comps still happened at wing and maybe region levels. I recall several squadrons and even a group in CA that were known for drill comp being their primary activity. Pretty much every waking moment dedicated to drill team.

Looking back, looking around and looking forward, I find myself questioning the large-scale usefulness and practicality of NCC and local versions leading up to NCC. Sure, drill is important, so are the PT and academic components. But is the obsession and financial hit really worth it? The end products are precision drill teams that return home with trophies and then....gets ready for next NCC? They can certainly enter local parades, but they become one entry in a long line of entries that start at one point and end up at another. A well-drilled local unit can prepare for that without ever seeing NCC.

I just realized - my cadet "career" was 1967-1973. Right smack in the middle of the 1966-1975 hiatus. Maybe that is tempering my view. At any rate, I never missed the absence of a national level drill competition and I don't think I suffered for it.

[lordmonar]

Quality?

It would be easy to prove.......wing/region/national will have to visit the units and see for themselves.

[NCRblues]

130k? Wow...

Maybe use that money to hire back a CP shop guy at national and really expand things like other NCSA's and the new encampment program that seems to be on pause.

[Eclipse]

Quality?

It would be easy to prove.......wing/region/national will have to visit the units and see for themselves.

"Quality" is irrelevant until there is some quantity.

Just like cadet promotions, testing, etc., some objective criteria could be set, and the CG graded on the criteria.
Nuance comes much, much later after simply having one.

I'd go further and say it should be an SUI and CI item.

[jimmydeanno]

...

Each wing pays it's own way for their teams.

That way NHQ is not spending $130K on the event, more cadets participate in the NCSA on the national level.

This doesn't change anything.  "Wing" and "NHQ" are really the same.  NHQ says, "Wings, you're responsible for sending your teams to NCC."  Wing says, "NHQ, we need $10k in next years budget to send our teams to NCC."

Unless the money is coming from external sources, it's still CAP spending $130k on NCC.

[a2capt]

Perhaps yes, perhaps no.

Wing X might say "you won that, you need to raise some funds to offset your expenses".  Or they might have alternate sources of funding, and be totally flush in that area.

As for every wing sending a team or two? CG & DT, that would be a heck of an event. 1196 beds, meals, etc.  If everyone was represented, and that's just the competitors.

[lordmonar]

...

Each wing pays it's own way for their teams.

That way NHQ is not spending $130K on the event, more cadets participate in the NCSA on the national level.

This doesn't change anything.  "Wing" and "NHQ" are really the same.  NHQ says, "Wings, you're responsible for sending your teams to NCC."  Wing says, "NHQ, we need $10k in next years budget to send our teams to NCC."

Unless the money is coming from external sources, it's still CAP spending $130k on NCC.

Ehhhhh.......no.    Each wing has to send a team......how they pay for it is up to the wing.....wing find donors, make the teams pay, charge each squadron a surcharge to competed at the wing level....what ever.   

Point is now....we spend $130K for the regional teams to go....free of charge...more or less.......If the event is say 5 days long....at $50/day for room and board and $500+/- for air fair.....that's $750 per member.....saves NHQ a butt load of money....add $100 per cadet/senior to cover costs of the event.....and I think you still will have a lot of interest in the event.  Particularly if everyone knows the costs up front.

It also pushes wings to find cheaper ways to get to the event.

[wowcap]

This is what I would like to see in the NCC.

Each WING sends a CG and DT to the week long comp.

Each wing pays it's own way for their teams.

That way NHQ is not spending $130K on the event, more cadets participate in the NCSA on the national level.

Yes....that makes the event that much bigger....but it also makes it that much more of impressive event for the cadets.

That my sound good but Logistically impossible. Just to find a place big enough to house 52 CL and 52 DT along with enough staff the numbers would be astronomical. Lets not forget finding the facility that could remotely hold this. Plus how many members it would take just staff this widespread of event. It would take more than a week for that many people.

[Майор Хаткевич]

If boyscouts can do it. 

[Woodsy]

Wait...  NHQ has been paying for travel/lodging for everyone?!?!

Why not have teams pay/fund raise their own way, like almost every other CAP event?  I'm shocked to hear that we were paying for participants!  I understand and support paying expenses for event staff, but not for participants...

Like you noted, there is precedent.  It's not like it was a secret.  Yes, perhaps they should make it more like school band competitions where as part of the competition, they need to typically raise funds to go higher up. Wing and in some cases, Region, are simple. Get a van and drive, barracks are cheap. Bring money for about 6 meals at the mess hall.

They ABSOLUTELY  need to make it like those band competitions!  There is no reason we should be funding this. 

When I said "almost" every other CAP event, I meant everything where you're not staff.  ES missions aside, I've never heard of any CAP event paying travel and lodging expenses for every participant. 

I'm holding a Public Affairs academy in a few weeks.  Yes, the PA budget is paying for the gas and hotel for the staff members/instructors, that's a necessity to get the right people to fill the positions.  But the 60 +/- participants are on their own dime.  I can imagine the laughs I would get if I went to the Wing Commander with a request to fund everyone's expenses.