No More NCC

[wowcap]

Effective immediately and continuing during this off year a group of dedicated individuals from each region and our NHQ staff will take a hard look at how we can best reorganize this premier CAP National Cadet Special Activity.

The primary rationale for this strategic pause is funding and an overall restructure so we can include more cadets at all levels of competition.  NCC, in its current format is an expensive program for our organization. Despite significant internal restructuring to the schedule, competition location and the Staff's creative measures, NCC has become one of the most expensive cadet activities, with CAP National Headquarters executing a budget of nearly $130,000 annually from an ever-tightening budget for national cadet activities. Unfortunately, financial realities drive cadet activity decisions to a large extent.

[coudano]

Zoinks.
That's 2,600 o-flights, eh?

[Майор Хаткевич]

$130k!!!!!???

[SarDragon]

Priced airline tickets lately? Round trip SAN-DAY right now is $435 per person. If you send 6 for the color guard, that's $2610 per team, times 8, for $21,000 (rounded). I'm going to estimate an average of 16 for drill teams, for a total of $56,000. That's just air fares. Yes, I know some teams can drive, but gas ain't cheap either. Now we're up to $77,000. Now add in berthing for close to 200 people, at an estimated incredibly cheap price of $30/night, for a week, at $42,000, and now you're up to $119,000. I'll bet that's closer to $130,000 than you thought it was going to be.

Now, a2capt, fill in the real numbers for people count, berthing cost, and room nights, and see what the new total is.

[Eclipse]

$130k is only the start.  Probably more like $200k+ when you factor in what the wings are spending to field a competition-level team ($10-15K each).
That's a pretty big chunk of cash when you consider the average active wing has an ES / OPS Training budget of about $25k a year, and the
typical encampment budget is in the $10K range.

The somewhat all-too-common disciplinary issues with NCC, especially DT, cadets who believe they are "special" is a nice value-add to all the money spent.

2600 O-Rides?  How about free encampment for every interested cadet and senior in CAP?

This activity has had a far too narrow audience for far too long, and caused far too much background noise to be sustained in its current form.  NHQ
has been unable to articulate the value to Unit Commanders, leading to essentially zero interest in my wing, and as far as I know, this is pretty common, we are not unique.

Obviously there are a number of members who feel passionately about this activity, but there will be more then a few who will not be sorry to
see it "paused", perhaps permanently.

If it's ever to come back, it needs to be refocused on local participation and value, with the primary intention of getting CG teams up and functional
at each unit, not just ramping up random cadets as a wing team for the sole purpose of the NCC.

The DTs, AFAIC, can be allowed to fade gently into the night.

[SarDragon]

OK, I miss-guestimated room nights. It should be three instead of six or seven. But I'm probably low on the room cost, so it will probably even.

[Flying Pig]

I guess Ill join back up and just wear only my NCC ribbon with the stars on it since Ill be a dying breed!

[Bluelakes 13]

Since I have been involved with NCC for almost 10 years, both as a DT escort and as staff, my opinions on the worth of NCC have been voiced before.  I would substitute a competitive event over encampment any day.

The prevailing thought among us region DCS is that the wing and region competitions will go on, presuming of course Wings still participate.  Once you take a year to two off, getting back into the swing will be very difficult.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Since I have been involved with NCC for almost 10 years, both as a DT escort and as staff, my opinions on the worth of NCC have been voiced before.  I would substitute a competitive event over encampment any day.

The prevailing thought among us region DCS is that the wing and region competitions will go on, presuming of course Wings still participate.  Once you take a year to two off, getting back into the swing will be very difficult.

Wouldn't be "hard" to start getting it back on track. Begin with Banning tailored body fitting uniforms, and there's thousands in savings.

[Bluelakes 13]

LOL - the cost of tailored uniforms, which are local costs BTW, are insignificant to the NHQ cost of travel.

My recommendation was move NCC to a central location where each corner of CONUS has an equal drive, and teams pay their travel.

Of course, that's just one man's opinion...

[Майор Хаткевич]

LOL - the cost of tailored uniforms, which are local costs BTW, are insignificant to the NHQ cost of travel.

My recommendation was move NCC to a central location where each corner of CONUS has an equal drive, and teams pay their travel.

Of course, that's just one man's opinion...

No doubt, but it's a start to change the mentality. As for a central event...no matter where it is, the further out the team is, the more expensive it is. Maybe time would be better spend finding corporate sponsors? Slap some CocaColas on some flags, Red parade rifles, a Coke bottle trophy. You get the point. 

[NIN]

This is a repost of something I just said on FB, and likely can be said here as well:

I will likely generate a little bit of hate & discontent with this comment, but if you think about the number of cadets NCC directly impacted (the 160 or so on winning region teams who travel to wherever to compete) versus its cost, I think most folks would agree that in its present incarnation NCC's goals, focus, and execution need some re-examination in light of the budget crunch we find ourselves under.

Yes, NCC as a "whole program" (not just the "national" NCC event) impacts far more than those 160 cadets (ie. every team that competes at Wing, Region, etc). But also think about a) how many NCC teams come from the same squadron year after year after year; b) how many sometimes compete at the Group or Wing level with ZERO competition from another unit; c) how much NCC has become a "Kabuki Theater" of cadet programs.

When you really get down to it, participating in some sort of "NCC feeder competition" (group, wing, region) only involves probably 1500 - 2500 cadets total nationwide (and I think I'm being pretty generous). Thats 6-10% of the cadet membership, tops.

I know some wings with 30 or 40 squadrons across 5 or 6 groups and their wing competition is 2 perennial teams going at it with each other. Everybody else is either "Why bother, XYZ squadron always wins" or "We don't have 1/10th the resources to beat them ..."

If NCC was something that EVERY squadron did, different matter. But even in large wings NCC impacts only a small percentage of the membership, and in a lot of ways is a huge distraction to the Cadet Program.

How many cadets on NCC teams have you seen with *incredible* "NCC-only" uniforms but their uniform/shoes/accessories for weekly wear look like garbage? Really? Cadet Jones can't afford a new pair of shoes to replace those shabby ones he's wearing to squadron meetings, but he's got a nice pair of corframs that are "NCC only!" and see pavement 4 times a year, tops.

Honestly, the $130,000 spent on NCC each year would bring us 2600 more orientation flights. How's that for impact? That puts the "AIR" in "Civil Air Patrol."

I'm all for competition, but the cost of the program versus per-cadet impact (or worse, deleterious effects)  is pretty high.  NCC has needed a "reset" for awhile, IMHO.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Friend request sent.

[Bluelakes 13]

It's not necessarily the destination, but the journey. 

I think folks that say that NCC affects only x cadets are missing the big picture. 

EVERY unit should be competing, at least in the CG competitions locally. Why?  Because to compete the cadets need to
   Study the leadership and AE manuals for the Panel Quiz and Written Exam (already needed for promotion)
   Work on their Mile Run times (again for promotion)
   Work on their flag presentation skills (units should be very active in parades, VFWs, etc, anyway)
   Work on drill, repeatedly (why should units drill?  If you do not know the answer, oh well)


Every single event of the Competition itemized above is what every unit with a CG should do anyway.  Time and money is well spent.

If you want to argue the benefit of Drill Teams, that's another story, although much of the above applied to them too.

[Eclipse]

Yes, every unit should have a Color Guard - to post colors.   It doesn't need to be, nor should it be, a competition.

As to the Drill Teams?  Little purpose in CAP, except to foster more undeserved elitism, waste money, and burn time better
spent elsewhere.

It's one thing if you a have fully funded, staffed, and functional organization that is so busy and top-heavy with members
that yo have to find alternative outlets for various requirements, however CAP hasn't been that for a decade, possibly two,
and as is, the NCC competes t the detriment of a lot of other programs that are directly cogent to the program and curricula
itself.

It went from being an extracurricular "nice to have" to being the sole focus and only point of participation for a lot of seniors
and far too many cadets, missing the point of both the cadet program and the NCC itself.

[lordmonar]

This is what I would like to see in the NCC.

Each WING sends a CG and DT to the week long comp.

Each wing pays it's own way for their teams.

That way NHQ is not spending $130K on the event, more cadets participate in the NCSA on the national level.

Yes....that makes the event that much bigger....but it also makes it that much more of impressive event for the cadets.

[Майор Хаткевич]

While we're at it, I get that "back in the day" PT was just the mile run, but why not expand NCC to be just like the current test? Pushups, situps, sit and reach +mile.

[Eclipse]

How about a 5 year moratorium on competition where:

Each unit that has cadets must put together an active Color Guard, and / or >all< cadets are required to complete
time on a unit CG as part of one or more achievements.

If Drill Teams are still considered necessary and viable, no wing "super teams", all teams must be registered as a "team", and
may not comprise any cadets or staff outside a single Group.  That insures that everyone is "local" (relatively speaking), and
has a vested interest without unduly competing with other activities in the wing.

Prohibit custom tailored uniforms, professional coaches, and other similar nonsense.

Once you have a viable program where the focus is back where it belongs, you can then discuss >if< competitions have any value, and
how to restart the program, with the added benefit of the registered teams and programs simply sending their best to the mix without
having to do a re-boot every fiscal year and pretending there is enough interest that the competitions are anything more then a
1-2-3 line up of the three teams that showed up.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Or, take it the way of HGA, and make it a regional event.

[HGjunkie]

Or, take it the way of HGA, and make it a regional event.

They really screwed the pooch on that one, thinking they could condense a 2-week activity into a weekend event.