About those shield-shaped specialty badges...

[BuckeyeDEJ]

From another thread today...

On the issue with the sheilds and the CP, AE, crests.....IMHO they should all be changed to USAF style specailty badges and worn in the same manner.  i.e. you get to choose two (or one with any wings) over the ribbons and no where else.

I'm a little divided on this one. Part of me thinks that it might be OK if the design was right, but I imagine they would follow the concept of the Ground Team badges (with the leafy looking unbalanced wreath on it), and I never really liked that one. On the upside, cloth versions for BDU's would be a lot cheaper having less materials to make it.

On the other hand, I'm beginning to think that that we really don't need them. I try to read 39-1 every couple of months so that I remember them, but most of them use some kind of quill or lightning bolt, while others don't seem to make any applicable sense at all. Not much point to a badge if no one remembers what it is.

Do we really need all those goofy enamel badges, with their inconsistent and multiple wear locations? No. A nice, shiny silver, over-the-ribbons badge would do just fine, with three levels that correspond to expertise. Everyone would still get one, but they would have more meaning and be less confusing.

They could be patterned after the Air Force's badges, without awkwardly ripping off Army jump wings (like the IC badge does) and without the use of letters (how many people think we're built for speed because we have a "GT" badge?). We'd need to bring in the professional designers out here in the field to put something really nice together (and I know they're out there!).

Quickly, some possible examples:
Emergency Services badge: master level would be for anyone in a command staff position in ICS, senior for section chiefs, etc., and basic for ground team members, with a little leeway to the next level for senior people in their positions.
Communications badge: Would take in radio comms, IT and public affairs, embracing existing specialty tracks.
Personnel management badge: Would take in administration, personnel, professional development, etc., embracing existing specialty tracks.
Organizational management badge: Would include finance, legal (non-legal officer), logistics, etc., embracing existing specialty tracks.
Etc., etc. I couldn't imagine there'd be more than eight or nine, but that's a nice ballpark figure.

Someone please feel free to fill in some other blanks I'm missing (and I know there's a few — this is an on-the-fly post).

[arajca]

Would you advocate for duty position badges like the AF?

Also remember, some of the "inconsistent and multiple wear locations" is based on gender based topographical diferences.

Although the AF has "groups" of badges, each career field has their own badge. Which total far more than what CAP has.

[High Speed Low Drag]

Cadet Programs??

[BuckeyeDEJ]

Cadet Programs??

There has to be a place for cadet programs in a consolidated badge. That one isn't as ugly as the stained-glass-looking aerospace education badge, but it's smallish and not really easy to read at a distance. Suggestions?

Would you advocate for duty position badges like the AF?

Also remember, some of the "inconsistent and multiple wear locations" is based on gender based topographical diferences.

Although the AF has "groups" of badges, each career field has their own badge. Which total far more than what CAP has.

I would advocate for something along the Air Force's lines, but much simpler. While I know there are gender-based badge position issues, one position per gender should be enough. Wanna wear more than one, go join the Scouts and wear a sash.

[Hawk200]

Although the AF has "groups" of badges, each career field has their own badge.

No, they do not. You've got it backwards, there are badges that cover groups of AFSC's, each and every career field does not have it's own badge.

To draw a couple paralells, Safety and Operations both wear an "Operations Support" badge. Admin, Training and Personnel all wear the "Manpower and Personnel" badge.

Outside of the paralells to CAP, there is "Force Protection" which covers all Security Forces, and OSI. Every enlisted medical person wears the same badge, doesn't matter if they're Medical Logistics, Dental assistant, or IDMT. I don't know the exact numbers, but it wouldn't surprise me if over 50% of the Air Force enlisted corps wears a maintenance badge. I was a telephone guy, and I wore the same badge as the guys on the flightline working on F-16's.

The only time a career field will have a badge to itself is if there is only a single AFSC in the group. Generally, any given badge in the Air Force may account for a dozen or so AFSC's. To give each one it's own unique badge would be cost prohibitive, and would cause so much confusion that it would be completely unworkable.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I support AF-style badges instead of the myriad of shields we now have.

I have two, Administration (master) and Safety (tech), plus Observer wings, but I only wear the Admin one, since that is my highest rating.

Some off-the-cuff badge consolidations:

Administration, Finance, Historian and Personnel (maybe Public Affairs too, but that's a reach).

Safety and Emergency Services.

Professional Development, Recruiting and maybe Cadet Programs.

Operations and Inspector.

Just a thought.

[BuckeyeDEJ]

Maybe we should take a cue from the A-staff organization. Southeast Region's staff is organized that way, and it seems to work out just fine. The badges could be organized along the same lines, generally.

(For the record, incidentally: I'm a master in PA and a tech in comms and cadet programs, but I only wear my PA badge.)

[Hawk200]

Some off-the-cuff badge consolidations:

Administration, Finance, Historian and Personnel (maybe Public Affairs too, but that's a reach).

That might work.

Safety and Emergency Services.

I would put Ops, ES, and Safety in one basket. All somewhat related.

Professional Development, Recruiting and maybe Cadet Programs.

Don't know about recruiting, but the others, yes. One is tracking senior training, the other cadets.

Operations and Inspector.

I would have to disagree on that one. Operations and Inspector are different worlds. One is functional, the other investigative (in many ways). It might be wise for an Inspector not to have one, from the stuff I've been reading the Inspector "cannot be beloved" (a quote from Louis the 14th, King of France upon appointing inspector positions).

It's a start.

[flyboy53]

On the AF side, public affairs and historian have separate badges, but I believe it would be excellent to merge the two under one badge because of the similar function. I really liked the idea of a mission support badge that was promoted on CAP Talk some time ago. It had such great potential.

[BuckeyeDEJ]

On the AF side, public affairs and historian have separate badges, but I believe it would be excellent to merge the two under one badge because of the similar function. I really liked the idea of a mission support badge that was promoted on CAP Talk some time ago. It had such great potential.

Public affairs is much closer to communications than to administration. It shares Internet responsibilities with IT (the technoogy side is IT, the content and appearance side is PA). Like radio communications, it's another method of distributing information. It's better to lump PA/marketing (including recruiting and history) with communications.

[RiverAux]

Get rid of all the specialty track badges.  We got along without them for 50+ years.  Don't really see much need for any of the rest either.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Get rid of all the specialty track badges.  We got along without them for 50+ years.  Don't really see much need for any of the rest either.

Including aircrew wings?

On that note, I do believe that a Mission Scanner should have a half-wing.

[lordmonar]

Get rid of all the specialty track badges.  We got along without them for 50+ years.  Don't really see much need for any of the rest either.

I whole heartedly disagree!  We use this sort of bling to bring pride to the very valuable contribuiton every specialty brings to completeing our missions.

I agree that CAP has gone over board in the way we display them....but I don't think loosing them all together would be the way to go.

As CyBorg pointed out....there is no WAY IN GOD'S GREEN EARTH you will pry the wings off our pilot's breasts.

[Major Carrales]

Yet another proposal designed to abrogate a member purchase of an existing item.  I will not support this unless the older badges could be worn concurrently with the new ones (yes, I know it will double or triple the number of badges, but perhaps some well placed hyperbole might serve to show the reasoned CAPTALKER the somewhat moot nature of the proposal)

I am not, at this time, going to favor anything that is going to cause more member money to be wasted based on some aesthetic paradigm.

Either do away with the badges altogether over time by stopping the ability to earn one while allowing those that have one to continue wearing them until they retire...(as is done with the obsolete ribbons by some) or leave it alone.

[lordmonar]

I would support that sort of replacement by attrition plan.

Once the new badges were developed you allow the old badges to be worn until the person retired or upgraded his Specialty Track Rateing.

Stop selling the old ones so when they wore out members would be required to replace them.   You will still see the old ones running around but in time they would disappear...ala the T-43 (?) ES patch vice the Pluto ES Patch.

[BuckeyeDEJ]

I can agree with Sparky on a phase-out date. But we have too many of those badges to even recognize them anymore. I'm OK with consolidating into major fields of expertise instead of having badges for every little thing from character development to finance to garbage engineering.

Finding a good way to consolidate them all and make sense of it won't be hard to do, but it's a matter of organizing.

[Major Carrales]

I can agree with Sparky on a phase-out date. But we have too many of those badges to even recognize them anymore. I'm OK with consolidating into major fields of expertise instead of having badges for every little thing from character development to finance to garbage engineering.

Finding a good way to consolidate them all and make sense of it won't be hard to do, but it's a matter of organizing.

Do the phase out thing, and you ave a supporter in me.

[RiverAux]

Get rid of all the specialty track badges.  We got along without them for 50+ years.  Don't really see much need for any of the rest either.

Including aircrew wings?

I could live with that, though there is a pretty strong heritage link to them unlike with all the specialty badges (which is what the thread is focused on).  The phased out approach is fine with me. 

[Hawk200]

Get rid of all the specialty track badges.  We got along without them for 50+ years.  Don't really see much need for any of the rest either.

Including aircrew wings?

Aircrew wings are not a specialty track badge. Different abilities being represented.

Now starting to think we don't need specialty track badges at all. About to go take mine off all my uniforms.

[flyboy53]

Get rid of all the specialty track badges.  We got along without them for 50+ years.  Don't really see much need for any of the rest either.

Including aircrew wings?

Aircrew wings are not a specialty track badge. Different abilities being represented.

Now starting to think we don't need specialty track badges at all. About to go take mine off all my uniforms.

I did that a while ago. I don't want to wear badges that looks like they were prizes out of a Cracker Jack box.