Meritorious Unit Commendation [US Navy] earned for Civilian Service

[AfroPhoenix]

Greetings, all.

I work as an engineer for my day job at the Puget Sound Naval Shipyard. The Navy awarded the Meritorious Unit Commendation to the yard back in 2019. [full story] At the time, I did not put much thought into it - we each got a MUC lapel pin, and that was it. Recently, I started considering whether the regs allow for me to wear the MUC ribbon on my class B.

The major concern is, I work as a civilian employee of the Navy - I am not a sailor. The shipyard's commander, a Navy O-6, is a higher-level manager in my chain of command, but my job is a typical 9-5 engineering office job.
The general allowance for CAP members to wear past military decorations seem to imply that you earned those decorations in past military service, not civilian service. I am looking for confirmation, one way or the other, on the wear of this ribbon.

My research so far:

11.2.2. US Awards. Federal awards awarded by the competent authority may be worn on USAF-style uniforms in accordance with instructions contained in AFI 36-2903. National Guard awards will not be worn.

The text as-written seems to offer a wide berth - "federal awards," with no specific text on whether the award was earned as a civilian or serviceman.

10.3. Non-Air Force Service Awards. ANG members wear state decorations when serving in state status, but not while on federal active duty.
   10.3.1. Wear other military service department awards not included in paragraph 12.5 below in the order the
   awarding Service prescribes.

From what I can read, the Air Force wrote nothing explicit concerning awards from civil service vs. military service.

CHAPTER 5 - IDENTIFICATION BADGES/AWARDS/INSIGNIA

SECTION 3 - AWARDS

PP. 5312 RIBBONS.

5. Ribbons on Non‑Military Uniforms.  Personnel who earned service ribbons while a member of the Navy may wear the ribbons on non-military uniforms if the organization sponsoring the non-military uniform permits the custom.

I've basically confirmed that the CAP, USAF, and USN all allow decorations from past military service on the CAP uniform, but the question of how the past award was earned isn't addressed. The text "member of the Navy" again seems to imply an active-duty sailor, but the language isn't firm.

Bottom line, the question is:
If the shipyard I work for, as a civilian, was awarded the US Navy's Meritorious Unit Commendation, do I have the right to wear the MUC ribbon on my CAP uniform? Any insight is appreciated.

[MSG Mac]

Did you get a letter or orders? If so,I would assume you can wear it. But check with NHQ and the Personnel Center @ Puget.

[NIN]

A CAP friend of mine works as a Dept of the Navy Civilian for NAVSEA at NSWC-Crane.  They were awarded an NMUC in 2013. While he probably *could* wear it, as he said "It was awarded to me as a civilian."

Another example: Gentleman is a drill status guardsman in the ANG.  Full-time, he is a GS-12 at National Guard Bureau in DC. NGB got the Joint Meritorious Unit Award while he worked there. As a service member, he is not authorized to wear that JMUA on his uniform because he was not in a military duty status while assigned to the unit that received the award.

Using the JMUA as an example, DoD Instruction 1348.33, goes in to long and laborious detail on who is eligible and who is not for the DoD awards like the JMUA. Para 3.3, for example, while being somewhat circuitous, goes to great length to say "Service member" throughout.

Also, SECNAVINST 1650.1H, while also giving me eystrain, says things like:

"4. Participation of Civilians in Unit Awards. Subsequent
to 16 March 1969, DON civilian U.S. citizen employees assigned to
a unit recommended for a Presidential Unit Citation (PU), Navy
Unit Commendation (NU), or Meritorious Unit Commendation (MU) may
be nominated for participation in the award, provided the officer
recommending the award certifies the civilian employees played a
key role in the achievement for which the award is being
recommended."

For a civilian, it seems, just being employed by the command receiving the award is insufficient to be "nominated for participation."

Lastly, are there military orders listing your name? Thats usually the kicker: if you're not on a by-name listing of recipients of the award, chances are you aren't eligible in the same way as a service member.

But I think the long and the short of it is that getting an NMUC as a Navy civilian doesn't confer wear of that award on the military uniform, much like the guy who got a JMUA as a civilian with NGB can't wear his on his ANG blues.




 

[Slim]

In a similar vein, while serving as a member of the USCGAux (and also a CAP member), I was awarded the Coast Guard Unit Commendation Award twice (once in celebration of the 50th anniversary of the Auxiliary and once for Aux participation in the response to 9/11) and the Coast Guard Special Operations Service ribbon (which is not nearly as cool as it sounds, it was for working 3 14 hour days afloat supporting a CG boat station at a tall ships event).  All three awards came with written awards.  Since these were actual Coast Guard awards, and given by competent military authority, onto my CAP rack they went along with copies of the orders into my records.

And of course, along came the questions, and those who wanted to argue the point that the reg states (or stated) "Earned during military service," which the Aux may not have been.  Most of these-especially the arguers-were CAP members who didn't have any military awards.  Pretty much every member with prior service, including a few Coasties, had no issue with me wearing them.  And in some cases it started conversations about the Coast Guard and it's auxiliary.

In the end, while I was proud of being a part of the CGAux during those time frames, and the work I did, it just wasn't worth all of the arguing and constantly having to defend myself, so I took them off.  It just wasn't a hill I was willing to die on.

While the reg may be ambiguous as to whether you can or not, I would suggest asking yourself if this is something that is important enough to you that you'd be willing to defend it every time it's questioned.

[THRAWN]

Wear only CAP awards on your CAP uniform. Problem solved. What's next?

[Jester]

Most of these-especially the arguers-were CAP members who didn't have any military awards.  Pretty much every member with prior service, including a few Coasties, had no issue with me wearing them.

Sounds about right.

[RiverAux]

There used to be a conflict between the CAP awards manual and the uniform manual on this specific issue.  The awards manual said it just had to be awarded by competent authority while the uniform manual said it had to be earned while a member of the service (or words to that effect).  Not sure if that is still the case. 

[AirDX]

While a civilian employee of the Air Force my unit earned an MUA and an AFOUA. In the unlikely event I were to wear a CAP uniform that allowed military awards, and I were to put my whole rack together, I'd happily wear them. AFMAN 36-2806 says right there:

"3.36.1. Assigned and attached members (to include civilian employees) who served in the unit or organization for at least 1-day during the inclusive period of the award and directly contributed to the mission and accomplishments of the unit, are authorized the appropriate ribbon. Civilian employees wear the lapel button. When needed, the commander of the approved unit validates and determines entitlement."

I'm not concerned about being a "civilian", we bellied up and worked right alongside the uniformed contingent, performing exactly the same job.

It won't ever happen, but it'd be a weird rack, starting with the MUA and AFOUA as a DAF civilian, the CAP AFOEA, an Army Service Ribbon, and then my CAP stuff.

[Shuman 14]

The MUC-N was awarded by competent military authority. You, as part of the team that earned the award, are entitled to wear it with pride. Civilian or Sailor, you were part of the team.

If you are authorized to wear a USAF-style uniform, you should wear it. that's my two cents worth.

Just as an FYI, I have a PUC-CG and three CGUCs from service in the USCGAux and an AFOEA from CAP. I have taken the award memos from all to the S-1 section in my USAR unit, they were properly uploaded into i-PERMS, and I wear them all proudly on my Army uniform.

I only ever wear Corporate Working Uniform in CAP so I've never had a need to wear them on a USAF-style uniform, but if I ever have the need, I will.

[GroundHawg]

The MUC-N was awarded by competent military authority. You, as part of the team that earned the award, are entitled to wear it with pride. Civilian or Sailor, you were part of the team.

If you are authorized to wear a USAF-style uniform, you should wear it. that's my two cents worth.

Just as an FYI, I have a PUC-CG and three CGUCs from service in the USCGAux and an AFOEA from CAP. I have taken the award memos from all to the S-1 section in my USAR unit, they were properly uploaded into i-PERMS, and I wear them all proudly on my Army uniform.

I only ever wear Corporate Working Uniform in CAP so I've never had a need to wear them on a USAF-style uniform, but if I ever have the need, I will.

Don't forget to add your DHS Outstanding Unit Award that was awarded to us back in Jan of 21.

[Shuman 14]

The MUC-N was awarded by competent military authority. You, as part of the team that earned the award, are entitled to wear it with pride. Civilian or Sailor, you were part of the team.

If you are authorized to wear a USAF-style uniform, you should wear it. that's my two cents worth.

Just as an FYI, I have a PUC-CG and three CGUCs from service in the USCGAux and an AFOEA from CAP. I have taken the award memos from all to the S-1 section in my USAR unit, they were properly uploaded into i-PERMS, and I wear them all proudly on my Army uniform.

I only ever wear Corporate Working Uniform in CAP so I've never had a need to wear them on a USAF-style uniform, but if I ever have the need, I will.

Don't forget to add your DHS Outstanding Unit Award that was awarded to us back in Jan of 21.

I was unaware the USCG Auxiliary was included in that award, I thought that was for the USCG and USCGR only. Do you have a link to the Award Memorandum?

[RiverAux]

The award should be in your AuxData records.

[Shuman 14]

The award should be in your AuxData records.

Still, I'd like to see the actual award Memorandum.

[RiverAux]

I can't find an AllAux for it.  Actual citation just says USCG.  Might not be a thing for the Aux

[Shuman 14]

I can't find an AllAux for it.  Actual citation just says USCG.  Might not be a thing for the Aux

Does it show in your AuxData?

[NovemberWhiskey]

(quick check that I haven't fallen through a wormhole in CGAux Talk - no, still CAP Talk)

[Shuman 14]

(quick check that I haven't fallen through a wormhole in CGAux Talk - no, still CAP Talk)

[Stonewall]

Here's a very similar scenario that may help you see another perspective.

While I was assigned to National Guard Bureau as a military member, the Joint Meritorious Service Award (JMUA) was earned and presented with orders.

My coworker and good friend, works there as a civilian GS-13. Again, he is employed as a civil service employee.

He also happens to be a CMSgt in the Air National Guard.

Because he was serving at NGB in a civilian capacity, he is NOT eligible to wear the JMUA on his military uniform. Thus, if he were a member of CAP, he would not be allowed to wear it, because he did not earn it while serving as a military member.

Conversely, if a CAP member earned the Air Force Organizational Excellence Award (AFOEA) like we did a few years back, that member would NOT be allowed to wear that ribbon on their military uniform if they joined the military in the future (or already serving).

[N6RVT]

Because he was serving at NGB in a civilian capacity, he is NOT eligible to wear the JMUA on his military uniform. Thus, if he were a member of CAP, he would not be allowed to wear it, because he did not earn it while serving as a military member.

I am not questioning this at all.  However even when I was on active duty nobody cared.

The only time it might have come up at all is doing a promotion board where you check to see the the ribbons on the uniform are worn correctly.  I would check to see if the ribbon was authorized by a competent authority, in this case the answer would be yes.

I was once the recorder for a room full of bird Colonels doing a selection board where they were TRYING to throw someone out.  Something like this was actually noted, in this case a USPHS medal, but considered too nitpicky to use without revealing that they were deliberately non-selecting someone.

In this case what actually got used was the service member wearing a CIB instead of a USMC combat action ribbon.  They had changed services and the logic was that it was the Army equivalent of the same award.  Selection board did not agree.

[Stonewall]

The only time it might have come up at all is doing a promotion board where you check to see the the ribbons on the uniform are worn correctly.  I would check to see if the ribbon was authorized by a competent authority, in this case the answer would be yes.

Bottom line is that a civilian cannot officially earn a military award. Even if that civilian also serves in a component of the reserve forces outside of their civilian capacity. If it's not official, and the person did not receive that award/decoration while serving in an official capacity WHILE on military orders AND assigned to that entity, they cannot wear that decoration on their military uniform. Or in this case, CAP uniform.

In this case what actually got used was the service member wearing a CIB instead of a USMC combat action ribbon.  They had changed services and the logic was that it was the Army equivalent of the same award.  Selection board did not agree.

That's because the Army's regulation states ONLY a member of the Army, who is infantry can officially be awarded the CIB. Same with the CAB. I've seen so many Air Force people wearing a CAB so I ask, "when were you in the Army?" Their response is always the same, "I wasn't, I was assigned to an Army unit when everyone got them, they even gave me a certificate."

The Army's regulation states you must be serving in the Army when you earn the CAB. The certificate the Army gives Air Force and Navy dudes for a CAB is an "honorary" thing. Same with combat patches given to Air Force people. I see them all the time, but again, the Army's regs state members of other branches cannot [officially] be awarded army combat patches. Airmen CAN wear them, but they had to be earned while they were in the Army. I have a dude with a CIB and combat 101st patch, because he was IN the Army at the time.

We have a former Marine in my unit with a CAR. He said he should get the Air Force CAM because the CAR transfers over. Nope. Wear your CAR, be proud.

Let's be honest, In CAP people will wear what they want if they feel they should be allowed to wear it. I know plenty of CAP members who do this. It literally does not impact anyone. Doesn't make it right, but if we are having a discussion, I will argue my stance, based on regulations, that you are incorrect.

[RiverAux]

Bottom line is that a civilian cannot officially earn a military award.

Too broad a statement. 

CG Aux members can and do regularly earn military awards granted by CG authority.  Most CG Aux awards are not military members, but Auxies are eligible for many USCG awards.

[Stonewall]

Bottom line is that a civilian cannot officially earn a military award.

Too broad a statement. 

CG Aux members can and do regularly earn military awards granted by CG authority.  Most CG Aux awards are not military members, but Auxies are eligible for many USCG awards.

That's because they are, in fact, actual uniformed members of the Auxiliary. Just like CAP members earned the AFOEA.

It's not hard, but people will make it hard to benefit them.

As I said, 99% of the time no one in CAP will care, as long as you're not wearing something completely outlandish, like a Combat V or a MoH. So, do what you want, but be prepared to own it if its sketchy.

[Shawn Stanford]

I don't care about unit awards; I've got a pile of them and most of them I earned sitting behind a computer. A couple did require more, but for those I also got campaign medals and whatnot. I can only read ribbons down to the level of ARCOM/NAVCOM/AFCOM. Below that it just looks like someone vomited Froot Loops. I genuinely don't even recognize most of them. You want to bling it up with something you earned sitting on the toilet at a depot? Knock yourself out.

Chief, out.

[PHall]

Bottom line is that a civilian cannot officially earn a military award.

Too broad a statement. 

CG Aux members can and do regularly earn military awards granted by CG authority.  Most CG Aux awards are not military members, but Auxies are eligible for many USCG awards.

That's because the Coast Guard regulations say they can be awarded to the Auxiliary. Simple as that.

[N6RVT]

How about this, earned as a civilian supporting a USAR unit I was assigned to as a reservist at the time.

The fact they gave me that instead of the actual Army Achievement medal that would have actually meant something (though not much) says a lot about why I retired at 20 years instead of 30.

I had to go look this up as I actually *discarded* this award shorty after receiving it. Hadn't even thought about it for over 30 years.

And no, never wore it on anything after the first 20 minutes as it was meaningless.

[Stonewall]

How about this, earned as a civilian supporting a USAR unit I was assigned to as a reservist at the time.

The fact they gave me that instead of the actual Army Achievement medal that would have actually meant something (though not much) says a lot about why I retired at 20 years instead of 30.

I had to go look this up as I actually *discarded* this award shorty after receiving it. Hadn't even thought about it for over 30 years.

And no, never wore it on anything after the first 20 minutes as it was meaningless.

Not sure what you're getting at. You earned it as a civilian. It is a DA award for DA civilians. It is not a medal that can be worn on a military uniform.

[baronet68]

We have a former Marine in my unit with a CAR. He said he should get the Air Force CAM because the CAR transfers over. Nope. Wear your CAR, be proud.

Actually, the Navy/Marine Combat Action Ribbon CAN be transferred over the Air Force Combat Action Medal.

A14.17.1.2.  Members who receive the Army Combat Infantryman Badge, the Army Combat Action Badge, the Army Combat Medical Badge, or Navy Combat Action Ribbon may submit a copy of that award, along with other documentation, to the appropriate chain of command for conversion to the Air Force Combat Action Medal.  Approval authorities will coordinate with the applicable Military Service headquarters to arrange revocation.

[THRAWN]

We have a former Marine in my unit with a CAR. He said he should get the Air Force CAM because the CAR transfers over. Nope. Wear your CAR, be proud.

Actually, the Navy/Marine Combat Action Ribbon CAN be transferred over the Air Force Combat Action Medal.

A14.17.1.2.  Members who receive the Army Combat Infantryman Badge, the Army Combat Action Badge, the Army Combat Medical Badge, or Navy Combat Action Ribbon may submit a copy of that award, along with other documentation, to the appropriate chain of command for conversion to the Air Force Combat Action Medal.  Approval authorities will coordinate with the applicable Military Service headquarters to arrange revocation.

Is there a comparable CAP regulation? If not, wear the CAR. Or just your CAP awards and stop all this silliness.

[Eclipse]

Or just your CAP awards

As always the answer is right there, but...

[Stonewall]

We have a former Marine in my unit with a CAR. He said he should get the Air Force CAM because the CAR transfers over. Nope. Wear your CAR, be proud.

Actually, the Navy/Marine Combat Action Ribbon CAN be transferred over the Air Force Combat Action Medal.

A14.17.1.2.  Members who receive the Army Combat Infantryman Badge, the Army Combat Action Badge, the Army Combat Medical Badge, or Navy Combat Action Ribbon may submit a copy of that award, along with other documentation, to the appropriate chain of command for conversion to the Air Force Combat Action Medal.  Approval authorities will coordinate with the applicable Military Service headquarters to arrange revocation.

I should have clarified, he didn't want to trade in his CAR for a CAM, he wanted the CAM, too. In this particular case, he earned the CAR in 2003, before the CAM was created, and I may be wrong, but the AF did not allow for the CAM to be awarded for actions prior to its creation.

As an aside, I disagree with that regulation. However, the supporting documentation is what is key. The AF CAM is a bit harder to qualify for than the CIB/CAB.  I don't have the AFI in front of me, but for the CAM you require to have been engaged in direct fire with the enemy. I have a good friend I was deployed with who lost his leg on a patrol and got a Purple Heart, but NOT a CAM. Because it was not direct enemy fire. All the Army guys we were with got CABs and CIBs for indirect fire, but we didn't get CAMs. To me, enemy fire is enemy fire, direct or indirect.

[N6RVT]

Not sure what you're getting at. You earned it as a civilian. It is a DA award for DA civilians. It is not a medal that can be worn on a military uniform.

That was just me griping about something that happened over 30 years ago. They gave me that instead of an AAM specifically for that reason.

Question is though - why is there a ribbon for this?

[THRAWN]

Not sure what you're getting at. You earned it as a civilian. It is a DA award for DA civilians. It is not a medal that can be worn on a military uniform.

That was just me griping about something that happened over 30 years ago. They gave me that instead of an AAM specifically for that reason.

Question is though - why is there a ribbon for this?

Guess you could always ask the Army...

[baronet68]

Is there a comparable CAP regulation? 

Yes.  CAPR 39-3:

A. (3) b.  Decorations, ribbons  and  badges  authorized for wear on  the  U.S.  Air  Force  uniform  may be  worn  on the  CAP  AF-style  uniform  when earned  through qualification  and  awarded by  competent authority  to a  member for service  performed in  any  branch of  the  Armed Forces  of  the  United States or  its  allies  as  outlined in  CAPM  39-1.   

AFMAN36-2806 refers readers to follow additional instructions in AFI 36-2903 (AF uniform manual).
In the same way, CAPR 39-3 refers readers to follow additional instructions in CAPR 39-1 (CAP uniform manual).

Or just your CAP awards and stop all this silliness.

^^ That's the simplest way of handling it. 



You know... when I worked at Domino's Pizza back in the 80's, I earned a bronze medal for my 2-tray time (tossing and saucing 16 pizza crusts) in less than 8 minutes.  While it was nowhere near Waheed Asim's time of 2 minutes and 56 seconds, I still managed to 'Avoid the Noid' and should certainly be allowed to wear THAT medal on my CAP uniform, right?      

[heliodoc]

Maybe outdated  AR 672-20 LOLOLOLOL

[N6RVT]

Or just your CAP awards and stop all this silliness.

^^ That's the simplest way of handling it. 

You know... when I worked at Domino's Pizza back in the 80's, I earned a bronze medal for my 2-tray time (tossing and saucing 16 pizza crusts) in less than 8 minutes.  While it was nowhere near Waheed Asim's time of 2 minutes and 56 seconds, I still managed to 'Avoid the Noid' and should certainly be allowed to wear THAT medal on my CAP uniform, right?      

This is why everybody just wears polo shirts.

[Shuman 14]

Conversely, if a CAP member earned the Air Force Organizational Excellence Award (AFOEA) like we did a few years back, that member would NOT be allowed to wear that ribbon on their military uniform if they joined the military in the future (or already serving).

Maybe, Maybe not.

I took the AFOEA memo awarding it to CAP to S-1 Section at my Army Reserve Unit, they uploaded it into my i-PERMS and I wear it proudly on my Army Uniform, the same with every decoration awarded to the USCGAux, I took the documentation to the S-1, they uploaded it into i-PERMS and I wear them all without issue.

[Shuman 14]

Not sure what you're getting at. You earned it as a civilian. It is a DA award for DA civilians. It is not a medal that can be worn on a military uniform.

Ummm, yes you can.

In order of precedence, US Government Civilian awards and decorations, authorized for wear, are worn after U.S. military personal decorations and unit awards and before U.S. military campaign and service awards.

[Shuman 14]

That was just me griping about something that happened over 30 years ago. They gave me that instead of an AAM specifically for that reason.

Question is though - why is there a ribbon for this?

Because AR 670-1 says you can wear Civilian awards and decorations.  In order of precedence, those U.S. non-military awards and decorations, authorized for wear, are worn after U.S. military personal decorations and unit awards and before U.S. military campaign and service awards.

Also civilian uniformed employees such as DA Police Officers and DA Firemen would need the ribbon for their uniforms as well.

[LSThiker]

Just as a source of information, here is the AR 670-1 and DA PAM 670-1 authorizing the wear:

The following list indicates the order of precedence, by category, when medals from two or more categories are worn
at the same time:
a. U.S. military decorations.
b. U.S. unit awards.
c. U.S. nonmilitary decorations.
d. U.S. service (campaign) medals, and service and training ribbons.
e. U.S. Merchant Marine awards.
f. U.S. nonmilitary unit awards.
g. Foreign military decorations.
h. Foreign unit awards.
i. Non-U.S. service awards.
j. State awards for ARNG Soldiers.

c. U.S. nonmilitary decorations. U.S. nonmilitary decorations authorized for wear on Army uniforms are listed below in order of precedence. This list is not all-inclusive. Personnel will wear other U.S. nonmilitary (Federal agency) decorations based upon date of receipt. If more than one decoration is awarded by the same agency, the decorations are worn in the order of precedence as established by the awarding agency. Personnel will not wear U.S. nonmilitary decorations that duplicate recognition for service or an act for which a military decoration has already been awarded. Awards given by a jurisdiction inferior to the Federal Government are not authorized for wear on the Army uniform,
except as specified in paragraph 22–5j.
(1) Presidential Medal of Freedom.
(2) Presidential Citizen's Medal.
(3) President's Award for Distinguished Federal Civilian Service Award.
(4) DoD Distinguished Civilian Service Award.
(5) Secretary of Defense Medal for the Defense of Freedom.
(6) Secretary of Defense Meritorious Civilian Service Award.
(7) Office of the Secretary of Defense Exceptional Civilian Service Award.
( Secretary Distinguished Service Award.
(9) National Intelligence Distinguished Service Medal.
(10) National Intelligence Superior Service Medal.
(11) National Intelligence Exceptional Achievement Medal.
(12) Surgeon General's Exemplary Service Medal.
(13) National Aeronautics and Space Administration Space Flight Medal.
(14) Public Health Service Commendation Medal.
(15) Public Health Service Achievement Medal.
(16) Department of State Distinguished Service Award.
(17) Department of State Distinguished Honor Award.
(18) Department of State Superior Honor Award.
(19) Department of State Meritorious Honor Award.
(20) Decoration for Exceptional Civilian Service.
(21) Meritorious Civilian Service Award.
(22) Superior Civilian Service Award.
(23) Commander's Award for Civilian Service.
(24) Achievement Medal for Civilian Service

[heliodoc]

Well with that list and the Col's iPERMs....maybe CAP could track all of former DoD types and soldiers and airman and award all these ribbons and awards and maybe make an Annex to 39-1 and explain it all....might settle these ribbon issues

[LSThiker]

Now something that I just noticed:

Unit awards are worn on the right side of the uniform, regardless of which
service or agency awarded them.

Here is what is defined as unit awards

U.S. unit awards. A unit award is given to an operating unit and is worn by members of that unit who participated in the cited action. Personnel who did not participate in the cited action, but who are assigned in the cited unit,
are authorized temporary wear of some unit awards; only the unit awards specified in table 22–1 are authorized for
temporary wear. Personnel will not wear temporary unit awards for official photographs or for promotion or selection
boards. U.S. unit awards authorized for wear on Army uniforms are listed below in order of precedence.
(1) Presidential Unit Citation (Army and Air Force).
(2) Presidential Unit Citation (Navy and Marine Corps).
(3) Presidential Unit Citation (Coast Guard).
(4) Joint Meritorious Unit Award.
(5) Army Valorous Unit Award.
(6) Navy Unit Commendation.
(7) Air Force Gallant Unit Award.
( Coast Unit Commendation.
(9) Army Meritorious Unit Commendation.
(10) Navy Meritorious Unit Commendation.
(11) Air Force Meritorious Unit Award.
(12) Coast Guard Meritorious Unit Commendation.
(13) Army Superior Unit Award.
(14) Air Force Outstanding Unit Award.
(15) Coast Guard Meritorious Team Commendation.
(16) Navy "E" Ribbon.
(17) Air Force Organizational Excellence Award.
(18) Coast Guard "E" Ribbon.

I just realized that of the few Army SMs with the Navy "E" ribbon, I have always seen it worn on the left.  Not really knowing what that ribbon really was, it never crossed my mind.  Learned something new today.

[THRAWN]

Well with that list and the Col's iPERMs....maybe CAP could track all of former DoD types and soldiers and airman and award all these ribbons and awards and maybe make an Annex to 39-1 and explain it all....might settle these ribbon issues

CAP can't even define what an active member is clearly.

[heliodoc]

I forgot.....amongst many other things ..for a " multi million dollar" Corporation that can "clean sheet" regulations, one ought to expect more...

[Shuman 14]

Well with that list and the Col's iPERMs....maybe CAP could track all of former DoD types and soldiers and airman and award all these ribbons and awards and maybe make an Annex to 39-1 and explain it all....might settle these ribbon issues

If I remember correctly, the old Pink Sheet that used to go in the paper file, had a space to list Prior Service Awards on it.

So the solution is to add a tracker in e-Services that listed prior military awards and Federal Civilian Service Awards.

So the same way you submit your Military Education to get Professional Development credit, you can submit documentation of your awards be it a DD-214 or NGB-22 for prior Service, and actual award certificate for a current Service member or Federal Employee or a memorandum for record to cover anyone else (i.e. a dual CAP/USCGAux member who gets a Federal Unit Award for USCGAux service).

These documents get reviewed by someone at National and they list the Military and/or Federal Civilian Decorations in that section of e-Services that you can wear on a CAP USAF-style uniform.

If it's not listed, you can't wear it. If it is listed, that the end of the argument.

[NovemberWhiskey]

There's literally no regulatory purpose to any of that. Members should wear whatever they feel is appropriate and consistent with a plain reading of CAPR 39-1. Anything else is just paperwork for its own sake, of which we already have plenty.

[N6RVT]

There's literally no regulatory purpose to any of that. Members should wear whatever they feel is appropriate and consistent with a plain reading of CAPR 39-1. Anything else is just paperwork for its own sake, of which we already have plenty.

Just for fun I actually did my CAP rack in Ultrathin.  Came out to $91.50 for a rack that would be uncomfortable to wear if it even fit, which it would not, given two badges would go over it.  I did not order it.

I have a 9 ribbon rack that works on every uniform I have to wear them on.  It will never have to be updated, unless we go to a big enough war that a stage 4 mobilization takes place (thats where you drag people back out of retirement)

[Shuman 14]

There's literally no regulatory purpose to any of that. Members should wear whatever they feel is appropriate and consistent with a plain reading of CAPR 39-1. Anything else is just paperwork for its own sake, of which we already have plenty.

Well, it would be the only way to solve arguments like this thread. Unless there is a definitive answer from CAP HQ as to a "Yes" or as to a "No", it is going to continue.

At least if my idea was implemented there would be an integrity check in e-Services. Otherwise, people will continue to wear whatever they like and it will cause a fight (verbal or otherwise) when someone calls the person out.

The simple answer to "You can't wear that on a CAP uniform" is to print out my proposed section in e-Services, hand it to the confronter and say "Yes I can".

Until then, the gorilla dust is just going to get stirred up because someone thinks THEIR interpretation of CAP regulations is better than ANYONE else's.

[NovemberWhiskey]

Well, it would be the only way to solve arguments like this thread.

The arguments in this thread are also essentially without purpose. The overwhelming vast majority of the membership neither knows nor cares about any of this, nor are the purposes of the Civil Air Patrol and its ability to accomplish its mission affected in any way.

The ideal outcome here is, as I mentioned above, for members to wear whatever they feel is consistent with a plain reading of CAPR 39-1 and for everyone else to mind their own business.

[Eclipse]

Or just your CAP awards

[Shuman 14]

The arguments in this thread are also essentially without purpose. The overwhelming vast majority of the membership neither knows nor cares about any of this, nor are the purposes of the Civil Air Patrol and its ability to accomplish its mission affected in any way.

The ideal outcome here is, as I mentioned above, for members to wear whatever they feel is consistent with a plain reading of CAPR 39-1 and for everyone else to mind their own business.

I would tend to agree with your ideal outcome, but you and I both know that human nature won't let that happen.

[Shuman 14]

Or just your CAP awards

And that will happen right before the end of the world... moving on.

[THRAWN]

Or just your CAP awards

And that will happen right before the end of the world... moving on.

You'd be shocked, surprised, horrified, at the number of people that actually do this.

[Shuman 14]

You'd be shocked, surprised, horrified, at the number of people that actually do this.

About shocked as unicorns grazing in my front yard, but I digress.

That has not been my experience in CAP. I see more people who are upset that they cannot wear their military decorations on corporate greys and whites than Veterans who don't wear them on USAF-style uniforms.

This is why a tend to wear a polo shirt and tac pants, nothing to worry about and if I forget to shave that day, no one gets butt-hurt about it.

[PHall]

You'd be shocked, surprised, horrified, at the number of people that actually do this.

About shocked as unicorns grazing in my front yard, but I digress.

That has not been my experience in CAP. I see more people who are upset that they cannot wear their military decorations on corporate greys and whites than Veterans who don't wear them on USAF-style uniforms.

This is why a tend to wear a polo shirt and tac pants, nothing to worry about and if I forget to shave that day, no one gets butt-hurt about it.

What about that unicorn grazing in my front yard?   On my CAP uniforms I only wear CAP decorations, it's just easier that way. Mostly because of the number of CAP, Federal and State military decorations I've managed to collect over the past 45 or so years.

[baronet68]

You can always do as I do and have multiple racks so you can color coordinate according to the season, your mood, or what's being served for dinner.

My themes are red, white, and blue:




    

[Shawn Stanford]

You'd be shocked, surprised, horrified, at the number of people that actually do this.

About shocked as unicorns grazing in my front yard, but I digress.

What about that unicorn grazing in my front yard?   On my CAP uniforms I only wear CAP decorations, it's just easier that way. Mostly because of the number of CAP, Federal and State military decorations I've managed to collect over the past 45 or so years.

Yeah, ditto. I don't wear everything I rate on my Army uniforms, and I still have 21 ribbons.

I wear 7 CAP ribbons on my CAP uniform.

[Shuman 14]

What about that unicorn grazing in my front yard?   On my CAP uniforms I only wear CAP decorations, it's just easier that way. Mostly because of the number of CAP, Federal and State military decorations I've managed to collect over the past 45 or so years.

There is a clear prohibition against wearing NG and/or SDF decorations on a CAP uniform already. I don't agree with that, the same way I don't agree that NG and/or SDF decorations cannot be worn outside of Title 32 Status by Service Members. I believe that if you earned it, you should be authorized to wear it.

Now if that's what you choose to do, bully for you.

For those that choose to wear both their Federal and CAP decorations, bully for them.

It's the uniform Nazis I have an issue with. CAP members that are going to attack another CAP member because he or she is also a USCGAux member and has USCG awards or the civilian employee of the Navy that has a Naval MUC, because they read the regulation different than the wearer of those decorations.

The only way to shut those petty tyrants down is to have and official system (like e-Services) where there is an official final answer.

[Shuman 14]

Just an FYI the ALCOAST clarifying the award of the DHS Outstanding Unit Award was posted on 07FEB2022. Auxiliarists were included.

Thanks Groundhawg for sending me the link:

ALCOAST 040/22