Wings and GT Badge spacing

[Chief2009]

Recently someone had posted a nice PDF or Word file with an illustration of the proper spacing between wings and the GT badge on BDU's.

After searching, I cannot find it. Could anyone who has it please post it again? It would help my seamstress.

[Spaceman3750]

Well you didn't waste any time .

1/2 inch, white to white.

[Chief2009]

Well you didn't waste any time .

I didn't, but Vanguard is

If somebody has the visual representation, I'd appreciate it.

[NIN]

Well you didn't waste any time .

I didn't, but Vanguard is

If somebody has the visual representation, I'd appreciate it.

[Eclipse]

Well you didn't waste any time .

1/2 inch, white to white.

Not quite.

It's White-to-blue between the GTM and the branch tape, and white-to-white between the wings and the GTM.

Note the spacing on NIN's is 1/8 higher above the tape, which is correct.

[NIN]

Well you didn't waste any time .

1/2 inch, white to white.

Not quite.

It's White-to-blue between the GTM and the branch tape, and white-to-white between the wings and the GTM.

Note the spacing on NIN's is 1/8 higher above the tape, which is correct.

My sew-on job is a bit deceiving.  Your eye is drawn to the "space between the blue" not the "distances between the white."  But your visual  sense of order says that the space between the badges and the badge and nametag should be "the same."   If you do the whole "Top of nametag to white" and then "white-to-white" bit between the GT Badge and wings, there will be a pretty good sized gap between the nametag and the badge that is not evenly reflected between the GT badge and the wings.

I slightly cheated the GT badge to make that difference less obvious. It makes the whole thing look "more right," but I think if you threw a ruler on the whole thing, it would be off by a tiny bit.

I know, I know, but I swear, I couldn't look at my uniform and have it not appear correct even when it was.  By the time you make Lt Col, nobody is doing those kinds of inspections on you, so I adjusted a little. (its probably less than 1/8" of an inch)

[Eclipse]

By the time you make Lt Col, nobody is doing those kinds of inspections on you, so I adjusted a little. (its probably less than 1/8" of an inch)

Other Lt. Col's do.

[CAPsteve]

i have a question about placing of the badges.
Does Military badges go above the CAP badges since the Military are Federal badges in all cases?

[Spaceman3750]

Well you didn't waste any time .

1/2 inch, white to white.

Not quite.

It's White-to-blue between the GTM and the branch tape, and white-to-white between the wings and the GTM.

Note the spacing on NIN's is 1/8 higher above the tape, which is correct.

His is wings to GTM.

[CAPsteve]

The "white" is the badge.  The "blue background" is NOT.  Should be "white" to "white"

[Eclipse]

No.

The GTM / IC, or MOS badge always goes in the same place, regardless of the source, wings are always worn on the top.

If yo choose to wear two sets of wings, the military wings are placed below the CAP wings.  See Page 16 of 39-1.

[Eclipse]

The "white" is the badge.  The "blue background" is NOT.  Should be "white" to "white"

Not on the branch tape.

Properly placed, the white of the GTM is 3/8" above the branch tape, and the command badge is 3/8" above the name tape.

[NIN]

By the time you make Lt Col, nobody is doing those kinds of inspections on you, so I adjusted a little. (its probably less than 1/8" of an inch)

Other Lt. Col's do.

Allow me to rephrase: Not in my wing.  I didn't stand a single uniform inspection in a CAP uniform after I made Lt Col. (and I can count the number of times on the fingers of one hand someone used a stitch gauge on me as a senior)

The funny thing was, a guy in my unit had sewn his GT bade and observer wings on correctly and it looked odd (but, on measurement, it was correct). Standing us each side-by-side, my uniform "looked" correct, his, even though it was 100% IAW 39-1, "looked" wrong.

I shared my "ancient Chinese secret" with him, and the next week his BDUs were adjusted and they looked great. 

[Eclipse]

Granted, adult members are rarely formally inspected, on this issue, just like the way the BDU cap is supposed to be configured, the way you can
tell if someone actually read the regs, is that it looks "wrong".

So in this case, the "right" guys, are the ones doing their own thing.

[NIN]

i have a question about placing of the badges.
Does Military badges go above the CAP badges since the Military are Federal badges in all cases?

Generally speaking, yes.  I don't believe that the order of precedence is specified in 39-1, but its an unspoken rule that military badges go above CAP badges.

My XO was a former AF loadmaster and retired Army Guard Major (one of the few times you'll hear of a loadtoad making good, BTW), so so he had a GT badge, CAP Observer wings and his AF aircrew wings.  We dug up AF aircrew in white on ultramarine (old skool, too, from the 60s that was) and I stitched his tower of power up real nice: GT, Observer, Aircrew

[NIN]

Granted, adult members are rarely formally inspected, on this issue, just like the way the BDU cap is supposed to be configured, the way you can
tell if someone actually read the regs, is that it looks "wrong".

So in this case, the "right" guys, are the ones doing their own thing.

But there are like 3 people who know that "if it looks wrong, its right." You're one of them, I'm one of them, and there is this dude someplace in SWR. And I'm @#$% retired now

[Eclipse]

Generally speaking, yes.  I don't believe that the order of precedence is specified in 39-1, but its an unspoken rule that military badges go above CAP badges.

The order is prescribed on page 16 of CAPM 39-1.

My XO was a former AF loadmaster and retired Army Guard Major (one of the few times you'll hear of a loadtoad making good, BTW), so so he had a GT badge, CAP Observer wings and his AF aircrew wings.  We dug up AF aircrew in white on ultramarine (old skool, too, from the 60s that was) and I stitched his tower of power up real nice: GT, Observer, Aircrew

Ok, seriously?  Three badges?  Nice or not, that's way fubar.

[jimmydeanno]

Allow me to rephrase: Not in my wing.  I didn't stand a single uniform inspection in a CAP uniform after I made Lt Col. (and I can count the number of times on the fingers of one hand someone used a stitch gauge on me as a senior)

I can't say that I've ever had anyone make me stand for inspection as a senior...ever.  Then again, my uniforms always looks tip-top and I'm usually the one that ends up telling people the pink boa can't be worn with their BDUs.

[NIN]

Allow me to rephrase: Not in my wing.  I didn't stand a single uniform inspection in a CAP uniform after I made Lt Col. (and I can count the number of times on the fingers of one hand someone used a stitch gauge on me as a senior)

I can't say that I've ever had anyone make me stand for inspection as a senior...ever.  Then again, my uniforms always looks tip-top and I'm usually the one that ends up telling people the pink boa can't be worn with their BDUs.

I remember that guy!

[Cool Mace]

Well you didn't waste any time .

I didn't, but Vanguard is

If somebody has the visual representation, I'd appreciate it.

Burn the string!!!

[NIN]

Generally speaking, yes.  I don't believe that the order of precedence is specified in 39-1, but its an unspoken rule that military badges go above CAP badges.

The order is prescribed on page 16 of CAPM 39-1.

And table 6-2 and 6-4. Yep.  You're right. I didn't wear a CAP aviation badge, so it was a moot point for me.  Back when I did wear a CAP aviation badge, we were still wearing our military badges over our nameplates. 

And the more I think about it (man, I wish I had a photo of that) the more I'm pretty sure we would have complied with the reg and his military aviation badge would have been below the CAP wings. I honestly can't remember now which order it would have been in, but I would have followed the 39-1's guidance.

My XO was a former AF loadmaster and retired Army Guard Major (one of the few times you'll hear of a loadtoad making good, BTW), so so he had a GT badge, CAP Observer wings and his AF aircrew wings.  We dug up AF aircrew in white on ultramarine (old skool, too, from the 60s that was) and I stitched his tower of power up real nice: GT, Observer, Aircrew

Ok, seriously?  Three badges?  Nice or not, that's way fubar.

What do you mean?  There is nothing prohibiting it in the regs that I recall.

Matter of fact, I just took a quick perusal thru 39-1 (to refresh my poor remembery) and I see that up to 4 badges are authorized on service dress, and no similar specification is made for BDUs (I may have missed it, but I don't see it in the tables)

Of course, 39-1 can be so darn contradictory between one section and another (like, say, where they have the pics of the uniforms, and say "Badges can be worn like this" and another section, like where the wear specifications for the badges are, where they're _supposed_ to specify "Badges are worn like this.").

Fig 2-17's notes lump CAP aviation badges & specialty badges together, then make a 2nd mention that military aviation badges are worn under CAP badges.  Seems to me that it means you can wear all three.

Chapter 6, Section B is not specific in the descriptions as to how many badges can be worn on the BDUs, nor is Table 6-5.  The prohibitions in Table 6-5 are specific that only ONE CAP aviation badge may be worn (Line 4), and Line 16 says only those military badges authorized on the AF uniform.

Unless I've missed the hidden gem that specifies that only two badges can be worn on BDUs, seems to me that 3 badges was perfectly legal.

My XO was a pretty good guardhouse lawyer, too, so I'm about 99% certain between him and I that we would not have put badges on the uniform in the wrong place or out of order. (then again, I'm trying to remember. We might have set that uniform up prior to the 2005 release of 39-1, and the prior manual *might* have been a little more specific about badges..)

[NIN]

Burn the string!!!

Meh, it got cut off.  Nothing to see here.

[Cool Mace]

Burn the string!!!

Meh, it got cut off.  Nothing to see here.

Sorry, I had to say something since no one else did. That's the way things go on here, right? 

[Phil Hirons, Jr.]

Well you didn't waste any time .

I didn't, but Vanguard is

If somebody has the visual representation, I'd appreciate it.

That picture is truly worth the 1000 words. I'm bringing a new BBDU shirt to have the insignia put on. I just printed it out and made a few notes.

[NIN]

That picture is truly worth the 1000 words. I'm bringing a new BBDU shirt to have the insignia put on. I just printed it out and made a few notes.

Bringing it where? To your sewing machine, right?

[Chief2009]

That's perfect! Thanks NIN.

[Phil Hirons, Jr.]

That picture is truly worth the 1000 words. I'm bringing a new BBDU shirt to have the insignia put on. I just printed it out and made a few notes.

Bringing it where? To your sewing machine, right?

Nope it's broken. I got a reference for a tailor from a local NG officer. We'll see how it comes out.