Female Epaulets

[mmouw]

I have been a member of CAP since 1991. With all of the uniform changes, I have not kept up on the female uniforms until recently when my wife joined. We ordered her grey Epaulets from Vanguard and when we went to put her service coat together, the epaulets where longer than the sleeve on the service coat. Has anyone else had this problem and if so are there any solutions to it? I know when we had the blue epaulets, there were female sized that you could get from the bookstore. With the change to maroon (bad memories) did they forget about the female members of our organization?

One other oversite that has not been addressed is the lack of a maternity uniforms. I guess females have to be put on leave during that period of time. I know that using the Air Force maternity would more than likely be acceptable, one would think that with ALL the uniforms this would have been recognized.

Maybe with a female at the helm these oversights will finally be solved.

[JayT]

I don't believe we're authorized for the maternity uniform.

[MIKE]

The TPU has both sizes of epaulets. 

As far as the maternity uniform... CAP has the golf shirt and slacks instead.

[Fifinella]

Have not found a shorter epaulet, but if you use epaulet shapers (http://www.thehock.com/shop/?shop=1&cat=11&cart=426836), they look much better (it counters the bunching).

[PHall]

The TPU has both sizes of epaulets. 

That's because the Air Force has a LARGE and a SMALL size epaulet.

For whatever reason, CAP has only had just the large size epaulet.
This was true with the Blue ones, Maroon ones and the Grey ones.

I asked the Vanguard guy at last years CAWG Conference about it and he that no one had asked for them before!

[JC004]

The TPU has both sizes of epaulets. 

That's because the Air Force has a LARGE and a SMALL size epaulet.

For whatever reason, CAP has only had just the large size epaulet.
This was true with the Blue ones, Maroon ones and the Grey ones.

I asked the Vanguard guy at last years CAWG Conference about it and he that no one had asked for them before!

Well, CAP's are shorter than the AF large (male) versions and supposed to work for everyone.

[Cecil DP]

The TPU has both sizes of epaulets. 

That's because the Air Force has a LARGE and a SMALL size epaulet.

For whatever reason, CAP has only had just the large size epaulet.
This was true with the Blue ones, Maroon ones and the Grey ones.

I asked the Vanguard guy at last years CAWG Conference about it and he that no one had asked for them before!

Well, CAP's are shorter than the AF large (male) versions and supposed to work for everyone.

Obviously they don't!

[Pylon]

Re: Maternity Uniforms.

While maternity-unique uniform items are not authorized by CAP regs (such as the maternity jumper), I don't see why it is any problem to wear the standard uniform items that come from AAFES with a maternity option.  In other words, the maternity BDU blouse and BDU pants are still AF-approved BDU blouses and BDU pants.  The CAPM 39-1 doesn't specifically authorize which sizes are okay to wear, and which ones aren't; all sizes of the uniform items are fair game.   Same would go for the blues maternity pants and shirt - they're still official blues shirts and pants; insignia is still worn in the same places and fashion, etc.

So, yes, I would say that the standard maternity stuff is okay.  We have a few pieces of "new with tags, still in the bag" maternity uniform items in our squadron's supply; have no idea where they came from.

[O-Rex]

Maternity uniforms: probably not enough cases to warrant inclusion in 39-1, not to mention the cost of uniforms that one is only going to wear once a week, at most, for nine months. However, I would imagine if worn IAW AFI 36-2903 (with the appropriate CAP acoutrements) I really don't think anyone would have a problem with it (?)

A hiatus during preganacy is not mandatory, but it seems the norm (In my time in CAP, I knew of two Senior Members who became pregnant, and took some time off.)

Maternity uniforms are still a relatively new addition in the annals of Heraldry and Regalia: I can remember in the 80's when expectant servicemembers work civvies with nametag-It's come a long way....

[Capt M. Sherrod]

I'm probably over-simplifying this, however, Maternity is addressed in CAPM 39-1 (in a round about way). 

This would be the height / weight table. 

While I can appreciate a female officer being pregnant, (I have two daughters), the reg does stipulate what uniforms are allowed if you are over a certain weight for your height.

I will now look for my Nomex suit...

[Pylon]

I'm probably over-simplifying this, however, Maternity is addressed in CAPM 39-1 (in a round about way). 

This would be the height / weight table. 

While I can appreciate a female officer being pregnant, (I have two daughters), the reg does stipulate what uniforms are allowed if you are over a certain weight for your height.

I will now look for my Nomex suit...

Perhaps maybe it would then be appropriate to make a paragraph or two regarding maternity uniforms and have that included.  Reduce ambiguity.

[alamrcn]

the epaulets where longer than the sleeve on the service coat.

The epaulets or epaulettes (strap sewn on to the garmet) should be longer than the epaulet sleeve (aka "shoulder mark" or "epaulet slide" by some folks) that slides onto the epaulet.


CAP has always had only one size of epaulet sleeve at any given time, most likely due to cost. They started out with the USAF male (large) size, and yes - many of the CAP ladies were left out... Oops!



The second time around, CAP came up with a unisex sleeve - kind of a medium between the two USAF sizes. Closer to the female variation in length, but wider.



This same size has stuck through the third version of the blue in the late-80s (also when the raincoat Velcro style arrived), the maroon "berry" sleeves of the early-90s, and now the gray versions. Only recently with the TPU and use of actual USAF shoulder marks do we have the option of two sizes. To refer to them by "gender", i.e. Male=large and Female=small, is no longer considered to be PC!

I recently added all the shoulder grade insignia I had to the CAP Patches website if anyone is interested. I do have some holes from the first two versions in case any of you oldsters have some lying around in storage and want to give them up!

-Ace

BTW, do you think someone should tell the poor New Mexico Wing Commander that his Birds are on the wrong sides in the Wing's website photo?  Whoopsies! Must have been taken right after promotion, because they very often are seen that way in Change-of-Command cerimony photos, etc.

[MIKE]

The TPU has both sizes of epaulets. 

That's because the Air Force has a LARGE and a SMALL size epaulet.

Hence the  .

[Eclipse]

I'm probably over-simplifying this, however, Maternity is addressed in CAPM 39-1 (in a round about way). 

This would be the height / weight table. 

While I can appreciate a female officer being pregnant, (I have two daughters), the reg does stipulate what uniforms are allowed if you are over a certain weight for your height.

I will now look for my Nomex suit...

I don't believe this applies, neither does any other USAF table that I have seen.

I would agree with the above, since the maternity BDU blouse and pants are identical in design and configuration to the standard BDU parts, no issue.

But since the service dress is significantly different (jumper), we are not authorized for it.  You can look at any number of other parts that our big brothers can wear, that we can't, and how specific and legalistic 39-1 is with regards to USAF-style uniform parts to see that. 

Considering the added expense, small number effected,  as well as the short duration they are likely need (most women don't have significant weight gain until the 4th or 5th month), there's no point in adding it to the reg.  Most BDU's have enough give and the tabs can be let out that up to the point a pregnant woman is going to be field-active, they could be worn, and as mentioned, a good pair of stretch pants in gray and the golf shirt would be fine near the end of the third trimester.

Like all cap and RealMilitary® regs, until it says you >can<, you can't, not vice-versa.

Some fatherly advice - you show a pregnant woman height/weight tables and your life is at risk!   

[Hawk200]

As to the subject of large and small epaulets, maybe someone(or several someones)  should ask Vanguard for them. They might start making them.

As far as maternities go, there are a number of wings with their own unique uniforms, why not leave the wear of maternities up to the wing CC? Doesn't seem like it would be too hard. And I imagine that there might be a pregnant member or two that might want to continue wearing a uniform while pregnant. I figure that not everyone pregnant woman in every wing might want to actually wear one, so no reason to put it into a National manual.

[Cecil DP]

I believe that the maternity uniforms are "organizational issue" in the military. Issued for the duration of the pregnancy and then returned to be reissued when no longer needed.

[Hawk200]

I believe that the maternity uniforms are "organizational issue" in the military. Issued for the duration of the pregnancy and then returned to be reissued when no longer needed.

I've seen them in military clothing, and they are in the regs. Most organizational issue items are addressed in the regs as being issue. I know in the Air Force that if a woman is issued a set, they aren't permitted issue of new ones for a certain time period, they have to use the ones they have.

[jimmydeanno]

The weight issue for pregnacy (at least in the AF) is avoided by not having weight restriction for pregnant women.  However, once the kid is born, they have X amount of time to come back into weight standards.

There is a difference between the maternity BDUs and regular BDU pants.  They aren't just "bigger."  They have a higher waist line that comes up over the future CAP cadet and IIRC feature an elastic waist for comfort.

[mmouw]

I hear a lot of you saying that it really doesn't matter because it doesn't come into play that often, but isn't once enough to justify a paragraph or two in 39-1? If we had only one person that was over weight, could you imagine how much paper and ink we would have saved not addressing this issue. Not to mention the number of uniforms.  So how many does it take to justify the maternity uniform, or because it doesn't come up we just look the other way when we have a female that is expecting?

One other question. How many of you that replied are female? This organization is a male dominated one but we can't forget our female members. I would think that a female would agree that if it comes up once, it should be enough to make a change to 39-1.

[star1151]

As far as the maternity uniform... CAP has the golf shirt and slacks instead.

Oh, good grief.  Do you know how hard it is to find REGULAR women's gray slacks that meet the requirements?

Not saying a maternity uniform should be added, since it really wouldn't be worn that often, just pointing out your solution isn't....easy. :-)