What can Active Duty wear on there CAP uniform?

[Eagle400]

Well, I'm not an expert on what can and cannot go on the Air Force uniform, but I know one thing...

This is a no-go:

I don't know if this is an actor or real Army Captain, but CAP ribbons on a military uniform looks really bad.  Whoever had the idea for this should be in a heap of trouble. 

[jimmydeanno]

^didn't you hear?  CAP Encampment is an acceptable substitute to OCS and the Yeager is a substitute for tech school.

I do have to agree that her unit citation is on the wrong side.

[mikeylikey]

The uniform and hat on her makes me thing it is something from the 1990's.  They could at least use current uniforms.......and not CAP ribbons.  I see a huge lawsuit coming down on them from CAPNHQ

[DHollywood]

No way that's a real army captain.  Its just too jacked up.. the insignia is all crooked and that rack is ate the hell up something serious.  Has to be some kind of made in LA photo...

And there really is no viable lawsuit there....   

[JohnKachenmeister]

A lot of my soldiers - cavalry scouts - went through the EIB because they were assigned to infantry battalions, and the commander required that they do so.  Sadly, even those who passed all the events couldn't wear the badge because it's restricted to infantrymen.  But them's the breaks.

Emphasis added.

That is just wrong. Commander should be shot. It's one thing if someone wants to, but it's really wrong to require it.

Its not "Wrong" because the EIB course is a real good training program. Even if you fail to qualify, you learn a lot.  What is wrong is not transferring your successful EIB candidates to an Infantry unit so they can be awarded the badge on orders, then trnasfering them back to the cav.

[DHollywood]

A lot of my soldiers - cavalry scouts - went through the EIB because they were assigned to infantry battalions, and the commander required that they do so.  Sadly, even those who passed all the events couldn't wear the badge because it's restricted to infantrymen.  But them's the breaks.

Emphasis added.

That is just wrong. Commander should be shot. It's one thing if someone wants to, but it's really wrong to require it.

Its not "Wrong" because the EIB course is a real good training program. Even if you fail to qualify, you learn a lot.  What is wrong is not transferring your successful EIB candidates to an Infantry unit so they can be awarded the badge on orders, then trnasfering them back to the cav.

That kind of crap happened all the time in the mid to late 80's when I was in and let me tell you that the REAL Infantry was not happy about it.

What SHOULD be done is a seperate skill recognition badge for Cav, Armor, and other combat arms branches.  I saw some unit made Expert Cav Badges that looked great.  No reason to make skill badges for the POGs like the Air Force does....

Yes, in the Army the Infantry really does get all the bells and whistles - blue rope, blue discs, EIB/CIB, and all the cool schools.  But its because they are the Infantry!   Why is the sky blue ??

If you want an EIB, enlist or reclass 11CMF and go earn it just like the rest of the Infantry

IMHAO

[mikeylikey]

A lot of my soldiers - cavalry scouts - went through the EIB because they were assigned to infantry battalions, and the commander required that they do so.  Sadly, even those who passed all the events couldn't wear the badge because it's restricted to infantrymen.  But them's the breaks.

Emphasis added.

That is just wrong. Commander should be shot. It's one thing if someone wants to, but it's really wrong to require it.

What....... Making his soldiers demonstrate proficiency in certain skills and abilities is a good thing.  I used to make my Officers complete the Common Task Tests that are usually given to guys in Basic.  When I would get a new LT fresh from Officer Basic Course, I took him on a "forced" land nav/ 20 mile march over the first weekend.  I expected my Officers and Senior NCO's to be as proficient as they could in everything.  When I would get a new PFC fresh from AIT I had him hook up with his Platoon Leader, and retake the Common Task Tests that he took at basic PLUS demonstrate proper preventive maintenance on the equipment he would be working with.  All in all it took just about one and a half weeks of retraining and demonstration on the part of the new guy (both Officer and Enlisted) to meet my "additional" requirements. 

Commanders can do what they believe would benefit the unit. 

[Hawk200]

No reason to make skill badges for the POGs like the Air Force does....

POGs?

[mikeylikey]

Yes, in the Army the Infantry really does get all the bells and whistles - blue rope, blue disks, EIB/CIB, and all the cool schools.

Hey don't forget that Engineers get those awesome engineer buttons on the jackets!

I heard a rumor that when the Army switch to blues comes in force, the different buttons, specific infantry junk and some bling may go away.  

[Hawk200]

A lot of my soldiers - cavalry scouts - went through the EIB because they were assigned to infantry battalions, and the commander required that they do so.  Sadly, even those who passed all the events couldn't wear the badge because it's restricted to infantrymen.  But them's the breaks.

Emphasis added.

That is just wrong. Commander should be shot. It's one thing if someone wants to, but it's really wrong to require it.

What....... Making his soldiers demonstrate proficiency in certain skills and abilities is a good thing.  I used to make my Officers complete the Common Task Tests that are usually given to guys in Basic.  When I would get a new LT fresh from Officer Basic Course, I took him on a "forced" land nav/ 20 mile march over the first weekend.  I expected my Officers and Senior NCO's to be as proficient as they could in everything.  When I would get a new PFC fresh from AIT I had him hook up with his Platoon Leader, and retake the Common Task Tests that he took at basic PLUS demonstrate proper preventive maintenance on the equipment he would be working with.  All in all it took just about one and a half weeks of retraining and demonstration on the part of the new guy (both Officer and Enlisted) to meet my "additional" requirements. 

Commanders can do what they believe would benefit the unit. 

Then do something like that. I don't think it's right to send someone to challenges or schools that are outside their MOS. It's lazy to send them to something else because you won't develop something locally.

How is it a benefit to your unit to send troops to an EIB test that they don't get recognized for if they succeed in it? And if they fail, do you send them 'til they pass? They may learn something, but it's inappropriate to tell someone that they have to complete a task and receive no recognition when someone else does.

[DHollywood]

No reason to make skill badges for the POGs like the Air Force does....

POGs?

Person Other than Grunt - Grunt encompasses all combat arms generally.....  POG's dont beat feet in battle.  POG's are needed for sure, they just dont fight the fight on the line.

[DHollywood]

Yes, in the Army the Infantry really does get all the bells and whistles - blue rope, blue disks, EIB/CIB, and all the cool schools.

Hey don't forget that Engineers get those awesome engineer buttons on the jackets!

I heard a rumor that when the Army switch to blues comes in force, the different buttons, specific infantry junk and some bling may go away.  

There will still be distinctive color schemes to the uniform blingage- Blue for Infantry, Burgandy for Medical, Yellow for Cav, etc....

I'm pretty sure the blue rope will stay as well....

[mikeylikey]

Then do something like that. I don't think it's right to send someone to challenges or schools that are outside their MOS. It's lazy to send them to something else because you won't develop something locally.

How is it a benefit to your unit to send troops to an EIB test that they don't get recognized for if they succeed in it? And if they fail, do you send them 'til they pass? They may learn something, but it's inappropriate to tell someone that they have to complete a task and receive no recognition when someone else does.

I would never force a soldier to a test that was not related to their job.  You are correct that it would be a waste.

I do believe in cross training though.  You never know when (lets say) your Artillery Battery gets their guns taken away and handed radios and rifles and told to start patrolling Iraqi neighborhoods.  Oh wait.....that does happen.  I trained to be a Fire Support Officer, and later take command of an FA battery.  When I got to Iraq my SECOND time, I had neither howitzers nor a Fire Direction Center to work in.  I was handed a radio, a told to begin pounding the sand.  Good thing we knew we would be Infantry before getting to theatre.  The stuff I did, was more Infantry than Artillery.  I should have just requested Infantry when I was a 2LT.  

Wow......sorry for throwing the Army stuff around.  I can relate more to it than CAP at the moment.  

[mikeylikey]

Yes, in the Army the Infantry really does get all the bells and whistles - blue rope, blue disks, EIB/CIB, and all the cool schools.

Hey don't forget that Engineers get those awesome engineer buttons on the jackets!

I heard a rumor that when the Army switch to blues comes in force, the different buttons, specific infantry junk and some bling may go away.  

There will still be distinctive color schemes to the uniform blingage- Blue for Infantry, Burgandy for Medical, Yellow for Cav, etc....

I'm pretty sure the blue rope will stay as well....

Most likely......but we may end up placing more restrictions on type and NUMBER of badges and blingage can be worn (almost like the AF).

[Hawk200]

Most likely......but we may end up placing more restrictions on type and NUMBER of badges and blingage can be worn (almost like the AF).

To be logical, I doubt that. As long as you have Army generals with four and five badges, they aren't going to allow anyone to cut into their bling.

[Dragoon]

Just to clarify - it was indeed MOS related.

Every EIB task was part of the SQT manual for MOS 19D (Cav Scout).  In fact, years earlier, Cav Scouts had been classified as 11D, an infantry MOS!

Scouts have always had a dismounted mission.  In fact, the scout platoon in an Infantry Battalion - the guy out in front of the infantrymen - are cav scouts.

So it made sense to have them participate.  To me at least, it seems silly they couldn't get the award.  After all, they had met every single performance standard.

And John K - in the active duty environment of the late 80s, the ability to transfer folks to and from branches iwas a bit more difficult than in the guard/reserve, so that wasn't an option.  Today it's durn near impossible with top-of-the-Army approval.

[Hawk200]

Just to clarify - it was indeed MOS related.

Every EIB task was part of the SQT manual for MOS 19D (Cav Scout).  In fact, years earlier, Cav Scouts had been classified as 11D, an infantry MOS!

Interesting. If the Infantry won't award the EIB, maybe the Cav should come up with it's own "Expert" badge. If all the tasks are the same, then it would be rather simple. Send the Scouts to the EIB challenge (course?, test?), and if they pass, give them an "Expert Scout" badge (or whatever they want to call it.)

Kinda screwy that the Infantry does something and gets a badge for it, when another MOS has the same requirements, but gets nothing. Bit of inequality. Or maybe it might be simpler to just eliminate the EIB. Infantry gets their ropes and blue discs, why do they need another insignia?

[DHollywood]

I don't think the Infantry would think its all that inequitable   

Its a "Spirit of the Bayonette" thing.....

[Stonewall]

Infantry isn't just an MOS, it's a way of life.

Plus, Engineers got the Sapper tab, Medics the EFMB.... 

[Hawk200]

I don't think the Infantry would think its all that inequitable   

Its a "Spirit of the Bayonette" thing.....

Of course they wouldn't.  But they do have a lot more bling right off the bat than the rest of the Army.

Infantry isn't just an MOS, it's a way of life.

Plus, Engineers got the Sapper tab, Medics the EFMB.... 

True, but it sounds like Cav Scouts have all the same common tasks as the Infantry, but get nothing. And I somehow doubt that they don't consider Scouting as any less a lifestyle than Infantry. Especially considering that they work pretty close with them.

Lately, I've kinda taken the viewpoint that if everyone that has the same taskings does it, they should all be recognized, or  there shouldn't be any recognition. In class A's, Infantry is already set apart. An additional badge like the EIB doesn't really say anything all the more about them. At least it doesn't to me.