Fossett Search

oak2007 · September 07, 2007, 11:21:55 PM

It seem that some CAP have a tendency to speak before there brain engages! While attending the current mission at Bishop, Ca. A Sheriffs helicopter landed at the base. The pilot contacted base staff and informed them that he was instructed by NV. OES to assist at the Bishop base.
He ask Comm personnel if he could get the CAP frequencies so he could monitor search traffic. He was flat out told No. He reminded them that he was dispatched by NV. OES. The comm personnel told him " Then go back to NV". He then departed the search base

There is a right and wrong way of doing things and this wasn't one of them

Stonewall · September 08, 2007, 02:45:16 AM

Now that's the CAP I know...

Did this really happen? I believe it, but I don't want to.

RiverAux · September 08, 2007, 02:54:49 AM

It would be the first time any local official has ever listened to CAP that I'm aware of, which is why I tend to discount it.

oak2007 · September 08, 2007, 03:49:28 AM

Yes this really happen. The gentleman that was told to go back to NV was the CEO of Silverstate Helicopters which is contracted to agency that don't have air support in there departments. and yes he was a law enforcement officer.

CASH172 · September 08, 2007, 03:53:38 AM

Quote from: oak2007 on September 08, 2007, 03:49:28 AM
Yes this really happen. The gentleman that was told to go back to NV was the CEO of Silverstate Helicopters which is contracted to agency that don't have air support in there departments. and yes he was a law enforcement officer.

I guess law enforcement now actually respects us. This is amazing.

SJFedor · September 08, 2007, 03:57:03 AM

Quote from: oak2007 on September 08, 2007, 03:49:28 AM
Yes this really happen. The gentleman that was told to go back to NV was the CEO of Silverstate Helicopters which is contracted to agency that don't have air support in there departments. and yes he was a law enforcement officer.

Jerry Airola WAS an LEO at one point in his life, but he's not an LEO anymore. He's a corporate exec. And OPSEC dictates that, more or less, we don't share those frequencies with those that don't need to know. And a corporate exec does not need to know. There's definitely more professional ways of saying it, but if some guy rolls into a CP asking for our frequencies, I'm gonna tell him to go fly a kite, too.

mikeylikey · September 08, 2007, 04:18:07 AM

Quote from: SJFedor on September 08, 2007, 03:57:03 AM
There's definitely more professional ways of saying it, but if some guy rolls into a CP asking for our frequencies, I'm gonna tell him to go fly a kite, too.

Take your helicopter and kite and fly away sir, fly away. (or I prefer....."Sir, please go FRACK yourself")

oak2007 · September 08, 2007, 03:50:32 PM

I am more concerned about the unprofessional attitude that some CAP members project to others

arajca · September 08, 2007, 04:09:30 PM

Obiviously, there are some details left out. Such as:
Was he an official resource requested by the IC?
Was he a free lancer?
Did he actually have the appropriate comm equipment?
Why couldn't he have used the FAA Air SAR freq?

Flying Pig · September 08, 2007, 08:35:23 PM

There isnt anything left out. I was standing right next to the guy. In fact I walked out the the helicopter and greeted him and walked him into the CP. I was the guy who introduced him to the IC and watched in horror and embarrassment as he was all but shoved out the door. It wasnt Airola, it was one of the other top guys. I won't mention his name. He was a retired LE Officer

1. He was requested by NV OES. But he stopped in at the base to make contact knowing CAP was the handle. He viewed CAP as one, not Nv and Ca. He didnt walk in with an official signed request, but being a cop myself, I thought vouching for him, since I knew him would be enough to get the ball rolling.

2. He was not a free lancer

3. He had alll the radio gear he needed, Searchlight, and I think also had FLIR capabilities.

4.Because he wanted to be aware of what was going on during his flight from Bishop to Minden and wanted to be able to assist while enroute with his MD-500.

I was then told by one of the base staff that searching with a helicopter is a nightmare. Ummm....I beg to differ.
Anyway, SJFedor. I would hope you wouldnt tell someone to go fly a kite. Its that very attitude that is being addressed here. It was one of the most unprofessional things I have ever witnessed. And CAP was the one at fault.

SoCalCAPOfficer · September 08, 2007, 09:12:31 PM

Was it the IC that told him to leave, or the Comm Officer?

Flying Pig · September 08, 2007, 10:12:33 PM

Now..nobody told him to literally leave the building they were just blatantly rude. He knew he wasnt getting anywhere with CAP so he moved on. Id like to know how he was greeted in Minden.

Skyray · September 08, 2007, 10:37:07 PM

Interesting developement. CNN just reported that the Fossett search has turned up six previously uncharted crash sites. Shades of the Florida Everglades, where we threw blaze orange paint on every one we found so that the people who came along later knew it had already been processed.

arajca · September 08, 2007, 11:27:07 PM

Quote from: Flying Pig on September 08, 2007, 08:35:23 PM
1. He was requested by NV OES. But he stopped in at the base to make contact knowing CAP was the handle. He viewed CAP as one, not Nv and Ca. He didnt walk in with an official signed request, but being a cop myself, I thought vouching for him, since I knew him would be enough to get the ball rolling.

Is NV OES the IC?

Flying Pig · September 09, 2007, 12:04:05 AM

Look. CAP was wrong. He was 100% respectful and polite. The guy was requested through government channels to assist and was told a mission base was located at Bishop. He arrived and he was treated in a very disrespectful manner. Im sure he saw the effort as one big SAR. Instead he got "these are our toys and you cant play." I guess it was his fault he didnt complete the CAP ES Course prior to landing. We can forget that he was bringing an invaluable resource with him and told us he was at our disposal. Not to mention I had someone try to lecture me about how helicopters are a nightmare in SAR?

Come out of your CAP bubble for just one second.

Major Carrales · September 09, 2007, 12:38:31 AM

According to the Incident Command System, non-CAP assets can be used in searches as part of the "Air Branch." That is if the ICS system allows in its planning.

If the IC and the mission is a totally CAP one, then other assets have to comply to CAP. If mission planning did not allow for other assets to use CAP frequencies, then that is not rude, it is in keeping with mission planning.

This is when the Agency Liaisons and Planning Section needs to be put to work.

I think we all need to review our ICS training.

RiverAux · September 09, 2007, 12:45:37 AM

Someone should have checked with the CAP base before dispatching an asset there to see if they were needed and perhaps could have saved time by sending them direct to the area where they were needed. If the person was not treated respectfully, that is a bad on CAP, but if people, even from legit agencies just start showing up without prior coordination, thats a problem. I would say the same thing if a CAP aircrew showed up on someone else's search without being requested by the agency in charge.

jeders · September 09, 2007, 12:49:39 AM

Facts:

Someone came to help out and wanted to be able to stay in contact and monitor what was going on. Now I agree that this particular person was not one of the needs to know, this is the whole reason for OPSEC. However, there is a good way and a bad way to handle it.

Telling someone to go fly a kite is rude and will not help at all.

Telling someone that rules don't allow you to share frequencies, but you can still help and stay in contact on other public frequencies will get more resources and a better public image.

If someone comes in wanting to help, don't be a jerk.

flyerthom · September 09, 2007, 04:12:34 AM

Quote from: Flying Pig on September 08, 2007, 10:12:33 PM
Now..nobody told him to literally leave the building they were just blatantly rude. He knew he wasnt getting anywhere with CAP so he moved on. Id like to know how he was greeted in Minden.

It probably wasn't Mr Airola. One his pilots "Topper"was working quite well with us in Minden, including being on our ICS frequencys and searching grids assigned. He was part ofour assests in NV. I'm not why he received that reception in CA.

flyerthom · September 09, 2007, 04:15:26 AM

Quote from: arajca on September 08, 2007, 11:27:07 PM
Quote from: Flying Pig on September 08, 2007, 08:35:23 PM
1. He was requested by NV OES. But he stopped in at the base to make contact knowing CAP was the handle. He viewed CAP as one, not Nv and Ca. He didnt walk in with an official signed request, but being a cop myself, I thought vouching for him, since I knew him would be enough to get the ball rolling.
Is NV OES the IC?

NV CAP is the IC with OES working in a true interagency ICS. NV Nationa Guard is suppling rotors and security. The media was getting pushy until they deployed.