parent Committee

[woodsey115]

Does anyone have a parent committee at their squadron? How much do you let the parents be involved in the cadet program?

[Eclipse]

What would they do?

If they want to be involved they need to join.  The last thing any unit needs is "involved" parents
who are not under the command of CAP, bound or invested in its training, or its procedures.

[Garibaldi]

What would they do?

If they want to be involved they need to join.  The last thing any unit needs is "involved" parents
who are not under the command of CAP, bound or invested in its training, or its procedures.

It's not often I agree with Eclipse, but I agree with Eclipse. They would be more of a liability than a help.

[inactive123]

Every Boy Scout Troop I have been in has a parent committee. It gives a better relationship between the parents and the troop. The committee determines large stuff, such as budgeting, approvals on projects, and contributes as to who will be the next Scoutmaster for their children.

[Garibaldi]

Every Boy Scout Troop I have been in has a parent committee. It gives a better relationship between the parents and the troop. The committee determines large stuff, such as budgeting, approvals on projects, and contributes as to who will be the next Scoutmaster for their children.

None of which is the concern of anyone not in the organizational hierarchy as a member.

[Eclipse]

Every Boy Scout Troop I have been in has a parent committee. It gives a better relationship between the parents and the troop. The committee determines large stuff, such as budgeting, approvals on projects, and contributes as to who will be the next Scoutmaster for their children.

Apples and oranges.

Those are not "parental committees" those are >The< Committee, and they run the Troop.
They establish the charter with the host, pick the Scoutmaster, and otherwise control the situation.
They also do not need to be parents of Scouts.  They also are not necessarily the most informed
people in the room in regards to the BSA or Scouting - my wife is the Finance Chair of my
sons' Scout troop, and I am a former Scout.  I am frequently surprised at the level
of "no idea what they are talking about" that people on this committee have even though some
have been involved with this troop for years.

In many cases, much like a booster club, these committees become their "thing", they aren't involved
in Scouting, per se (i.e. never attend activities, sit in the back corner at meetings, and generally
stay program unaware), but they like having a veto power over other people trying to get things done.

While the Scoutmaster and other leaders do the training, interaction, and the activities,
the committee is the staff that handles the lion's share of the administrative and financial
details of the troop - they play the role that the senior staff plays in a CAP unit...

...and it is not always a happy marriage...I've seen it first hand.

This situation could define the "too many cooks" scenario.

While a CAP unit CC is the ultimate authority for his AOR, reporting only >up< the
chain, a Scoutmaster has to bend to and request many things from the committee, up to
and including his job, and at the risk of being replaced if he and the Popcorn Kernal
(this is a real thing, this year I am Popcorn Lieutenant) don't get along.

In the best cases it is a symbiotic relationship, in the worst, a constant fight.

And not something necessary or a good idea in CAP.

[lordmonar]

What would they do?

If they want to be involved they need to join.  The last thing any unit needs is "involved" parents
who are not under the command of CAP, bound or invested in its training, or its procedures.

It's not often I agree with Eclipse, but I agree with Eclipse. They would be more of a liability than a help.

+1

[lordmonar]

Every Boy Scout Troop I have been in has a parent committee. It gives a better relationship between the parents and the troop. The committee determines large stuff, such as budgeting, approvals on projects, and contributes as to who will be the next Scoutmaster for their children.

Way different animal.

In the BSA the Committee "runs" the troop.....and the Scout Master and his staff runs the program.

BTW all those committee members are BSA members.

[Luis R. Ramos]

... The committee determines large stuff, such as budgeting, approvals on projects, and contributes as to who will be the next Scoutmaster for their children.

Those are the duties of the Squadron Commander and his staff we expect to see in a squadron. For example, the Finance Officer handles the budget. Approvals on projects? To some extent, the Activities Officer, the Cadet Programs Officer, and the Squadron Commander...

[Brad]

... The committee determines large stuff, such as budgeting, approvals on projects, and contributes as to who will be the next Scoutmaster for their children.

Those are the duties of the Squadron Commander and his staff we expect to see in a squadron. For example, the Finance Officer handles the budget. Approvals on projects? To some extent, the Activities Officer, the Cadet Programs Officer, and the Squadron Commander...

^This. Sounds like the parents that are trying to push this committee need to read some CAP pamphlets and become more aware on how CAP runs beyond the simple perspective of their cadet(s).

[SamFranklin]

I think you guys are thinking in terms of formal organizational structure and lines of authority. Instead, think in terms of parents as stakeholders and informal friends of the squadron.

Here's what the Parents Guide on the national website says about parent committees.


"Parents can support the cadets in their local squadron without officially joining CAP by serving on a parents' committee. Some of the ways parents can help include:
• asking area businesses to make financial or in-kind donations;
• organizing a carpool system;
• planning an awards night or pot luck dinner;
• helping the squadron connect with other local civic groups;
• servingasaguestspeaker;or
• spreading the news about CAP and helping recruit new members."

[Eclipse]

Those tasks are helpful to the squadron, but don't require any "committee", informal or otherwise,
to the small extent the average CAP non-member parent woudl get involved in those things, they
can do it randomly as it comes up.

As soon as you put the word "committee" on things, that "empowers" people, and about 1/2 that list
could cause as much trouble as advantage.

As a commander, I had enough problem with uniformed members writing checks CAP couldn't cash,
let alone non-members I have no control over.  I know, we're all one big family, in this together, yadda, yadda.  BTDT.

I guess the carpool is a nice way for NHQ to get cadets to meetings and still wholly disavow involvement,
which is fine, but again, if you have a "committee", then the ability to disavow becomes more difficult.

I am also 100% against financial booster clubs as well, though I acknowledge they are allowed, within a lane, by NHQ.

[SamFranklin]

Your worries about "control" are mysterious to me. We ought to be willing to work with others and not fret so much about control, authority, and concerns about formal organizational structure.

You'll probably disagree in principle, and I respect that, I do, but your response to the parent group opportunity is perhaps an illustration of the hyper-authoritarian instincts that just won't die in CAP.

To sum up, a national publication encourages parent committees as a way to further our missions, broaden our base of support, and yet members in the field resist that. Instead of embracing that good advice, nitpick it and take a autocratic, pessimistic view.  What is there to fear, besides losing an ability to be solely and completely in charge? I'm sorry, but I think you're espousing a 1960's attitude to leadership. Theory X all the way. That's so ironic for a helping, people-focused organization. We need a lot more openness.

[Eclipse]

Have you ever been a Unit CC? 

I'm not shooting from the hip, my experience is direct and addresses practical realities.

Most of the NHQ publications pre-suppose a CAP that has not existed in decades, assuming it ever did.
Everyone has an opinion, everyone is "empowered", yet it's left to a few people actually doing the
work to cash the checks and clean up the messes.

It only takes one off-handed comment to the wrong person to wreck weeks/months/years of effort in
establishing relationships or building a project.  It's bad enough when we have uninformed members
doing this on their own volition, but to encourage non-members to do this kind of thing simply ignores
the realities about how people comport themselves in these types of situations. If you want to
"Sing Songs of CAP's Praises" more power to you, and "THANKS!".  Anything more general
then "CAP's great, you should check it out", or "CAP could use a new place to meet, here's their
CC's name." is a no-no, and neither requires a "committee".

Worse, you get a "committee" that decides to do "x" without even asking the unit CC if it's a god idea,
maybe they put in a lot of effort, and then are told "we don't / can't do that" - now you've got a disgruntled
"committee" through no fault of your own.  Not to mention the staff officer who is supposed to
be doing "whatever" who now sees other random people doing his job.

This is why we have appointed staff and specific lanes of responsibilities.

What is there to fear?  Let's see:

• asking area businesses to make financial or in-kind donations;
We have very specific rules about fundraising, even to the point of designating what you
can wear when doing it - having random non-members doing fundraising is a VERY bad idea.
There's a difference between asking parents and family members if they have funding channels and
then having the Finance people pursue them together and suggesting parents just do it themselves.
The Former is the "way" and doesn't require a "committee".

The only thing worse then needing a resource and not being able to get it, is being offered a
resource with strings, or something, including money, which is is offered in a way CAP can't accept
because the person asking didn't understand the rules.  The risk there is huge - cutting off the resource
from the donation, a hacked off member of the community who was "just trying to help", etc., etc.
Many times it is better to not ask, or not ask today.  That's a CC's job.

Real-world example?  Unit needs a new meeting space.
Member goes and secures one without asking the CC about it - gets a "perfect" space, except it's not available on
the current meeting night, or worse - real world now - all the owner expects, and is promised, is
a tax deduction for the fair-use of the space (he's got an empty building he's trying to reduce his costs on).
Big no-no on the tax side "Sorry, no thanks..."  Next thing you know you're hearing in the local community
how "CAP is so broken they can't even take a free building, so you better stay away from those guys..."
The next conversation with the guy next door gets a curt "can't help you".
                                                                     B. T. D. T. 
Bad enough when members do it without asking, at least a CC can hold that person accountable and
make sure it doesn't happen again.

• organizing a carpool system;
This breaks the ability for NHQ to disavow liability in the event of an accident.
"The Jones Composite Parental Committee organized the rides." "Really? Check please!".
If parents need to set up ride shares, great - again doesn't require a "committee".  It requires a
phone or email account.

• planning an awards night or pot luck dinner;
Staff job.  No issue with parents helping, it needs to be run by staff members.

• helping the squadron connect with other local civic groups;
No. Thanks.  This is 100% a uniformed staff job.  These relationships can be complex and
nuanced in regards to expectations on both sides, and you usually get one chance to make an impression.
Again "asking if anyone has local contacts they can facilitate" is fine, doesn't require a committee.
Having parents go to meet with the Mayor on the unit's behalf?  No way.

• serving as a guestspeaker;
This requires a committee?

• spreading the news about CAP and helping recruit new members."
This requires a committee?
"My kid's in CAP, it's great." Is encouraged, but any "recruiting" conversations need to be done by uniformed staff.

[lordmonar]

I'm kind of with Eclipse on this one.

There is nothing wrong with getting with the parents and having a "PTA" type meeting....this is what we are doing, this is how we are doing it, this is what is coming up and this is what we need help with.

But......beyond that.....it is just more work load for the squadron CC.
If you want a say in how the program is going......then you need to join the program.

[abdsp51]

Seeing both sides of this it seems like the op's intent was to have more parental involvement, however as many have stated there is no need for a sq to have a parent committee.  If parents want to be active within the unit by all means join as a full member or join as a sponsor member.  If parents have an issue talk to the CC or the CDC if your in a composite sq and work it.

Most committees I have seen tend to think they can do more than they can and think they are able to make decisions and such when they can't.  Not saying all committees are bad just a good chunk of them.

[Grumpy]

Every Boy Scout Troop I have been in has a parent committee. It gives a better relationship between the parents and the troop. The committee determines large stuff, such as budgeting, approvals on projects, and contributes as to who will be the next Scoutmaster for their children.

None of which is the concern of anyone not in the organizational hierarchy as a member.

They can't hold positions of authority or vote on such things as the budget.  But they can sure be a great help on such things as planning your squadron awards banquet.  One of our parents sells refreshments at our squadron meetings to help with fund raising.

[Brit_in_CAP]

What would they do?

If they want to be involved they need to join.  The last thing any unit needs is "involved" parents
who are not under the command of CAP, bound or invested in its training, or its procedures.

It's not often I agree with Eclipse, but I agree with Eclipse. They would be more of a liability than a help.

Like the man said, 'it's not often but...'. 
+1 for me.

Want to be involved - please join.

UK Air Cadets are required by law to have a civilian committee - not  a parents' committee - made up of people from the local area.  Specific rules, specific tasks, one of which is handing the money which the uniformed  staff can't do.  Different world, different rules.  In the CAP context - an unnecessary burden.  If they're that committed, they'll join.

[Grumpy]

I believe in the 4 month version of 52-10, it referred to "booster clubs" and being able to use parents.  In the latest and greatest version (18 Apr 14) it dose not mention it.  Hmmm, wonder.  You're correct about the commitment.  That's what the Sponsor Member is for.

[Eclipse]

Booster clubs are a different animal, intended specifically for fund raising and barred from input in the unit.

No idea how anyone thinks it's a good idea or worth the effort - anything you should be doing for
CAP fundraising, you should do as a member, anything else is probably either "iffy" or "Wing ain't gittin' their
fingers on me gold!" nonsense.

[Tim Day]

Seeing both sides of this it seems like the op's intent was to have more parental involvement, however as many have stated there is no need for a sq to have a parent committee.  If parents want to be active within the unit by all means join as a full member or join as a sponsor member.  If parents have an issue talk to the CC or the CDC if your in a composite sq and work it.

Most committees I have seen tend to think they can do more than they can and think they are able to make decisions and such when they can't.  Not saying all committees are bad just a good chunk of them.

If the goal is parental involvement, here's a suggestion. I hold a parents' night every quarter or so (5th week meetings are convenient for this). I brief the CAP 101 slide deck, modified to suit my squadron, and have a slide on support we need from parents. Introducing CAP to the parents really helps keep them involved and aware of the bigger picture into which the CP fits.

First bullet of the "how you can help" slide is always "Please keep doing what you're doing: bringing your cadet to meetings and buying their uniforms. THANK YOU."

I go over the schedule for the next few months and talk about any big issues (we have a new policy that requires us to have male and female adult supervision at our overnight activity, so I need some dads to join...)

[Garibaldi]

Seeing both sides of this it seems like the op's intent was to have more parental involvement, however as many have stated there is no need for a sq to have a parent committee.  If parents want to be active within the unit by all means join as a full member or join as a sponsor member.  If parents have an issue talk to the CC or the CDC if your in a composite sq and work it.

Most committees I have seen tend to think they can do more than they can and think they are able to make decisions and such when they can't.  Not saying all committees are bad just a good chunk of them.

If the goal is parental involvement, here's a suggestion. I hold a parents' night every quarter or so (5th week meetings are convenient for this). I brief the CAP 101 slide deck, modified to suit my squadron, and have a slide on support we need from parents. Introducing CAP to the parents really helps keep them involved and aware of the bigger picture into which the CP fits.

First bullet of the "how you can help" slide is always "Please keep doing what you're doing: bringing your cadet to meetings and buying their uniforms. THANK YOU."

I go over the schedule for the next few months and talk about any big issues (we have a new policy that requires us to have male and female adult supervision at our overnight activity, so I need some dads to join...)

Stealing this.

[Brit_in_CAP]

Booster clubs are a different animal, intended specifically for fund raising and barred from input in the unit.

No idea how anyone thinks it's a good idea or worth the effort - anything you should be doing for
CAP fundraising, you should do as a member, anything else is probably either "iffy" or "Wing ain't gittin' their
fingers on me gold!" nonsense.

I've seen the boosters around my children's school sports teams....which is why I would not participate!

Not something I ever want to see around my squadron, either.  I recall with horror how the soccer boosters overrode the coaching staff time and again....  
Coaching staff failure but there it was.

Keep the fundraising within the membership, keep your own hands of the money and get it properly banked ASAP!

[Anthony@CAP]

I've never posted before, but I felt this one deserved some good news from someone whose seen it work well. As a squadron commander I have found having a Parent Committee to be both beneficial for the parents and myself. And I successfully did it without any of the control issues that have been brought up thus far. I think any good squadron should have some sort of connection with parents whether its called a "committee", "association", or "club." The formal connection helps to keep parents involved, which can be key to keeping cadets involved, and adds to word of mouth recruitment among parents.

Despite the "horror stories" and speculation about possibilities in previous posts, as long as the goal and restrictions are laid out clearly it shouldn't be a problem. I would have the parent committee meet monthly, I would sit down with them for about 15-30 minutes and go over past and upcoming events and changes, answer any questions they had, and then let them know what kind of assistance I could use from them. Then I would leave them alone to network and talk almost themselves, and if I had asked them for assistance for them to figure out how to help.

Most of the time the only things I asked from them were assistance in award banquets or a pot luck dinner. Yes I had a staff member would run the event - but parents were a great asset in organizing food or providing extra labor for set up and clean up. Sometime they would run a subset of the event, such as organizing which parents was bring what to the pot luck - which was far more successful then the first time I tried to do it and relied on emails and cadets.

Occasionally I would ask them for assistance making a contact for some special purpose such as fundraising or in the local community - not once did I have an issue. They also often had connection for things such as signs, banners, shirts, etc... that I could take advantage of.

I think it all comes down to how you set it up. Eclipse pointed out the worst case scenario for a committee, I would say if you run into that situation I would place the blame solely on the squadron commander for not framing the committee correctly in the first place and not controlling it as it moved along. Essentially it should be used to keep parents involved and fulfill ad-hoc needs and connections. Having a formal group helps to keep the resources open and parents connected back to the organization (which is key to retention as parents have  a large say in their cadet's lives). The squadron commander just needs to provide a little direction and reminders, and the effort that goes in will far out-weigh the time needed to control it.

I'm sure I'll get blasted for supporting it as a good idea, unfortunately we let the worst case scenario control our decisions - even if it's easily mitigated.

[Grumpy]

I agree 100% Anthony.   :clap:

[Eclipse]

Anthony - I think one thing that doesn't happen here is people don't get "blasted", unless "disagreeing=blasting".

I don't doubt you've had a good experience, and like just about everything else in CAP, with strong, knowledgeable, and
appropriate leadership, you can make just about anything work.

The trouble is that on the mean, most of the unit CC's that are going to reach towards a parent's committee are going to
be the understaffed, overburdened, and inexperienced ones who will accept the help gladly and then "let things happen"
until they are out of control, and bad feelings, or worse, are available all around.

There's very little in CAP that a "steering word" or some "clarification" won't fix, unfortunately neither of those
is abundant in our structure, which is why member attitudes tend to be digital - either "I love this place and devote my
every waking hour" or "!@#$% all of you, I'm gone..."

I would also contend that everything you have parents help with is appropriate and needed, but requires no formal
structure of a "committee" to accomplish - as soon as you have a "committee", there has to be a "committee chair",
and that's things can start South.

[Storm Chaser]

Anthony, welcome to CAP Talk. I'm glad you've been able to make the Parent Committee work in your squadron. Parent Committees, if organized and managed correctly, can be very effective and useful.

[Slim]

BITD, when my unit was formed, the first commander set up a family readiness group type of deal for parents.  Granted, he was a senior enlisted adviser for a ANG fighter group at the time, and had had dealings with their FRG.  His implementation was similar to Lt Col Day's and Anthony's.

Once a quarter, he'd have a parents support group meeting where he could sit down with the parents, go over scheduling and activities, areas where we could use some help with specific things that didn't necessarily require a member to do, like car pooling to activities, newsletter support (photos, publishing, distribution, etc).  He also engaged the parents in setting up a phone recall roster for anything that might need it (mind you, this was back when cell phones were carried in bags or hardwired into the car, not on every every belt of every member of the squadron).  Unit's on a bivouac and is running late getting back, no problemo.  Call whomever in the PSG was willing or up for it that time, tell them we're running behind and to be at the squadron at 4:00 instead of 3:00, and they would disburse it to the rest of the parents.  Time spent making one quick phone call vs. making 15-20 phone calls to each individual parent, time that could be better spent getting the cadets back to the unit and not being more late than we already were.

It was a time to sit down with the parents and not only thank them for their support of their cadet(s) in the program.  But, more importantly, it was a time for the parents to get to know him and the rest of the seniors on a more personal level.  I always thought it created a level of comfort in that the parents knew who he was, had his phone number, and that he/we were going to take care of their cadets.