Cadet Online Testing - Anyone having Problems?

[suttonpa]

Our Squadron has 45 Cadets and about 15 of them have now either converted to Online Testing or joined after July 1.

1. First issue only the Commander and Primary Testing Officer was getting the email Notifications (We had to contact National to get our Alt Testing Officer and Admin Officer on the list)

2.  No notifications if a Cadet Times out. (National is looking into this)

3. I have not contacted national this issue but I will be on Monday, I know have 3 Cadets that say they received a Passing Score Screen but nothing has posted to their eServices Promotion Screen and no email was sent. 

Has anyone else experienced these or any other issues?

[tsrup]

Our Squadron has 45 Cadets and about 15 of them have now either converted to Online Testing or joined after July 1.

1. First issue only the Commander and Primary Testing Officer was getting the email Notifications (We had to contact National to get our Alt Testing Officer and Admin Officer on the list)

2.  No notifications if a Cadet Times out. (National is looking into this)

3. I have not contacted national this issue but I will be on Monday, I know have 3 Cadets that say they received a Passing Score Screen but nothing has posted to their eServices Promotion Screen and no email was sent. 

Has anyone else experienced these or any other issues?

When playing with the system I encountered the last one.  I've even found it evident in the online tests for the safety briefing. 
Just make sure the cadets click through all of the slides before exiting out of the exam. I think there is one more button to select after the test is complete and your scores post before the actual "slides" are done and the scores are posted.

hope this helps

[dwb]

3. I have not contacted national this issue but I will be on Monday, I know have 3 Cadets that say they received a Passing Score Screen but nothing has posted to their eServices Promotion Screen and no email was sent.

I'm receiving reports of the same thing in my Group.  If you can provide cadet's CAPID, test, and date/time it was taken, it may help NHQ narrow the problem down.

[Paul Creed III]

On the last screen of the testing application, cadets MUST click the "Finish" button for their scores to be posted. If they simply click out of the application, their scores are not recorded. This is a limitation of the application from what NHQ has told me.

I advise my cadets to do a screen shot or print the page (printing to PDF is fine). If something happens, I can then just enter the score manually.

[rebowman]

It is very important for the cadets to go through the entire thing -- after completing the test there is one screen that says click here to score.  The cadet gets a next screen with score.  At that point, MANY cadets think they are finished.

Those cadets that take the time to read and pay attention will see that this screen says click finish to SUBMIT your score.

Get your score & then submit it --- two separate screens.  Gotta do both steps

[a2capt]

What I have not figured out yet, is what to do with the test score should I use a printed test instead. I presume it just gets entered the same way in Cadet Promotions like the cadets using the prior system, and Phase III/IV.

Seeing as it's becoming an issue with some cadets not grasping the concept of actually finishing the test, I think I'm going to use the printed ones at the unit as an option.

Can they open the Level II test before passing the Level I test? It lets me do it, but I figure that it's because thats because I'm TCO.


Also, I'm seeing "Cadet started exam too many times without completing it" when I login and look, but I do not get any email notifications. Suffice to say, the email I have on file is correct, as I do get other notices from eServices.

[jimmydeanno]

What I have not figured out yet, is what to do with the test score should I use a printed test instead. I presume it just gets entered the same way in Cadet Promotions like the cadets using the prior system, and Phase III/IV.

Correct.  The printed versions of the online tests get entered just like the old ones.

Can they open the Level II test before passing the Level I test? It lets me do it, but I figure that it's because thats because I'm TCO.

No, they can't.  You can because you are the TCO.  The system checks to ensure that the previous achievement has been completed before they're allowed to open the next test.

[davedove]

What I have not figured out yet, is what to do with the test score should I use a printed test instead. I presume it just gets entered the same way in Cadet Promotions like the cadets using the prior system, and Phase III/IV.

Correct.  The printed versions of the online tests get entered just like the old ones.

Can they open the Level II test before passing the Level I test? It lets me do it, but I figure that it's because thats because I'm TCO.

No, they can't.  You can because you are the TCO.  The system checks to ensure that the previous achievement has been completed before they're allowed to open the next test.

Not only that, but a promotion must be recorded to access the next text.  (Oops, sorry, just reread what you posted ) 

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Why did NHQ decide to allow all open book testing online for cadets? For that matter (off subject) why for the Yeager award?

I think this just opens the realm for cadets to loose sight of what the promotion process is. Learning, that is what it is about, learning aerospace and leadership. Open book testing just allows cadets to open the internet and their book and pass with a score of 100% without learning a single thing. USAF would never go for this for promotion testing, I hope. Testing should be done in person on paper in front of a testing officer. Of your cadets, how fast do they promote with online testing, and how fast do the ones who test in person advance, and which ones are better leaders, in the sense of knowing what they need to know? The knowledge that cadets get from their leadership manual needs to be in the mind not in the book. When a decision needs to be made there generally isn't enough time to consult a book. Decision making is an on the spot practice, not a consult the book question.

[octavian]

I have not yet seen any cadet score a 100% on the on-line tests.  Just because it is open book doesn't mean they don't have to study the material first.  Milestone tests are still administered by the Testing Officer.   My cadets aren't advancing any faster since the introduction of on-line testing.   We have had the problem of the score not being recorded, even after the cadet has followed all of the instructions.  We have them take a screenshot of the score and enter it manually.

[RobertAmphibian]

Testing should be done in person on paper in front of a testing officer.

As has been said before, all milestone tests are administered in person. I haven't taken any of the online tests yet:the last AE test I took was the Earhart and the achievement I'm working on doesn't have an AE exam.

There are pros and cons to the online system, just like a paper system. With the paper system, it's possible for a cadet to take the exact same test at least once just to "feel out" the questions. Personally, I think that a timed, open book test which constantly changes question requires a greater understanding of material than 25 everlasting questions.

And any cadets who don't actually retain information will be completely owned on milestone tests. I like the idea that testing can happen outside of a weekly meeting. During a meeting, it's nice to have cadets who can focus completely on their staff positions and decision making. As you said, decision making is an on the spot practice.

[MSG Mac]

HAving the On-line tests ave a lot of time for me and I can update the records at my leisure. The number of cadets who fail an open book test amazes me, so I don't think it's a major difference from what we would normally have during a meeting. I have seen some 100%

[coudano]

Why did NHQ decide to allow all open book testing online for cadets? For that matter (off subject) why for the Yeager award?

I think this just opens the realm for cadets to loose sight of what the promotion process is. Learning, that is what it is about, learning aerospace and leadership. Open book testing just allows cadets to open the internet and their book and pass with a score of 100% without learning a single thing. USAF would never go for this for promotion testing, I hope. Testing should be done in person on paper in front of a testing officer. Of your cadets, how fast do they promote with online testing, and how fast do the ones who test in person advance, and which ones are better leaders, in the sense of knowing what they need to know? The knowledge that cadets get from their leadership manual needs to be in the mind not in the book. When a decision needs to be made there generally isn't enough time to consult a book. Decision making is an on the spot practice, not a consult the book question.

This is the paradigm shift that a lot of people aren't getting yet...
Historically, the primary expectation for accomplishment toward promotion has been the closed book timed tests.  That was the measuring stick for when you were ready to advance.  (incidentally, in my experience, most cadets just memorize regurgitate and flush; and furthermore the ACTUAL keys to the leadership kingdom weren't in the textbook, it was just a bunch of book theory, the actual leadership was learned in lab, and at seminars or classes that supplemented the curriculum).

The new system is designed to REDUCE the significance of those tests,
and REPLACE that significance with the commander's judgement on the cadet's improvement and mastery of the phase leadership expectations found in CAPR 52-16.

I can get on board with that, in theory.
However, it presents problems in practice.

That said, for my money, the new materials are more difficult than the old materials, and the construction of the new materials *drastically* increases the level of mastery required over the L2K stuff.  For a measure designed to reduce the importance of the academics, they are actually harder, if you do them the way they were designed to be done.  In my estimation (and i've studied the materials and taken the tests) we are talking about a much larger delta in mastery than just raising the passing score by 10%...   even with the open book, it's simply more difficult.  The material is more complex (and there is a lot more material), and the questions are more granular.  Chapter 2 has FIFTY (50) learning objectives!!!  Each of those objectives may have multiple questions in the possible question pool... and only 25 of them at most (guess which 25... random!) may be chosen from.  So you learn the other 25+ in great detail just incase you get asked them, even if you never do...

I think it might be TOO hard for some of our youngest and more immature cadets, or those with academic aptitude challenges.  Cadets who were failing the L2k with scores in the 50's or lower, don't stand a chance with this new stuff, as designed.

But the main challenge at my squadron so far has been getting cadets through the technical hoops just to log in and even *attempt* the test in the first place...  So far, ZERO of my cadets that joined since July 1st have so much as attempted L2L chapter 1...  it's starting to become problematic for morale and possibly retention, to the point where it's becoming unacceptable

[Al Sayre]

I've had a lot of problems with cadets either timing out, losing connections, or getting kicked out of the server.  Most of these Cadets are still on dial up...  I've started a general policy of after the 3rd try online, I just print a test and have them take it at the squadron, timed & open book (we shred the tests after they complete them).  So far I've had 1 fail, but most were either 92% or 96%.

[Cms.sloane]

I took the same test 6 times over and over again. It was a real pain in the ass because i passes all six times, national said that because i was using google chrome the system didnt read the passing grade. Somethings just amaze me.

[tsrup]

I took the same test 6 times over and over again. It was a real pain in the ass because i passes all six times, national said that because i was using google chrome the system didnt read the passing grade. Somethings just amaze me.

Well at least now there is a warning in big bold red letters.

[Ron1319]

The first problem we encountered using Windows 7 and IE was that you have to click "no" on the second warning about wanting to download secure and insecure information in order for the test to begin.  If they click the wrong box, they're locked out and I had to go unlock it for them. 

The second problem is that especially for cadet officer online testing we have found results not recorded as the previous cadet reported.  I'm having the cadets screen capture or print the results page and I am entering them manually as I am absolutely positive that our past cadet commander was capable of both not using Chrome and of clicking the "finish" button. 

We have also had two cadets who have had information in the system changed by national.  They have taken written exams before this data was changed and instead of changing the data in the database, they've apparently started a new database entry and their previous exam results were lost.  I had a parents standing there telling me that their child had passed an exam and what was I supposed to do?  I gave them the promotion and asked them to go do it again online so that we could see if the system was working correctly.  It was their first promotion and I believe it was a serious "customer service" issue. 

As far as the system, I find many cadets do not pass the exam and are not used to preparing for timed open book exams.  They are also often lazy and do not want to use the entire 30 minutes to go back and review their information.  Fortunately, we have good senior cadets who are now learning to mentor them and we're working through the issues.  I appreciate the time savings at meetings if we can iron out the problems.  Hopefully, they'll get the rest of the c/officer exams online soon.

Ron

[Eclipse]

The first problem we encountered using Windows 7 and IE...

You were pretty much cooked right there, especially with IE.  If we can impart a single lesson on our cadets during their entire
cadet career, it should be "don't use IE, ever..."

It is 2010, if NHQ is writing anything that is browser-specific, they need to shut if off now and move away from their computers.
This is a basic selection form with a simple score afterward.  Cadets should be able (and expected) to take this on their PC, MAC, iPad,
iTouch, or even their cel phones...

For the record I have taken a cadet test (for snicks) with Chrome and had no issues.

[Paul Creed III]

Firefox 4.0 Beta 7 with the latest version of Flash installed seems to work just fine.

[EMT-83]

You were pretty much cooked right there, especially with IE.  If we can impart a single lesson on our cadets during their entire cadet career, it should be "don't use IE, ever..."

What a boat-load of crap.

When was the last time you saw a Help Wanted ad that specified that the applicant be proficient in Google Chrome and Open Office?

It is 2010, if NHQ is writing anything that is browser-specific, they need to shut if off now and move away from their computers.
This is a basic selection form with a simple score afterward.  Cadets should be able (and expected) to take this on their PC, MAC, iPad, iTouch, or even their cel phones...

In the real world, applications are written to be browser-specific. Companies don't have the resources to test applications because some users want to be kewl. Make it work, then move on to the next hundred items on the to-do list.