Update on ABU wear.

[Smokey]

4.Works for people like me who think adults should only wear a military uniform when they are in the military.

Which completely disregards and denegrates our founding and those that died in service during WWII.  If some of you are so "bothered" by our military connection as the AF Aux,  well there is always the Boy Scouts (ooops  never mind, they wear uniforms too) or maybe ACORN could use you.

[Fubar]

4.Works for people like me who think adults should only wear a military uniform when they are in the military.

Which completely disregards and denegrates our founding and those that died in service during WWII.  If some of you are so "bothered" by our military connection as the AF Aux,  well there is always the Boy Scouts (ooops  never mind, they wear uniforms too) or maybe ACORN could use you.

I'm not bothered by the military connection, in fact it was one of the things that interested me about the CAP. I'm excited about the new program of volunteers assisting on air force bases for example, I find the opportunity to assist the people in the military an honor. I simply feel I haven't earned the right nor made the sacrifices to wear the same uniform as them.

I see your point honoring the founding members of the CAP and those that sacrificed their lives for our country. I would like to think I do that by performing my volunteer duties to the best of my ability, not by wearing a uniform they did not wear.

And for the record, I was a Boy Scout and I had no problem wearing the uniform. Please lay off the personal attacks.

[RADIOMAN015]

4.Works for people like me who think adults should only wear a military uniform when they are in the military.

Which completely disregards and denegrates our founding and those that died in service during WWII.  If some of you are so "bothered" by our military connection as the AF Aux,  well there is always the Boy Scouts (ooops  never mind, they wear uniforms too) or maybe ACORN could use you.

I think the whole point of discussion at least with the BDU's and now upcoming ABU's, is that CAP in the past has been able to get free issue of these uniforms from DOD sources  -- has absolutely nothing to do with our history.  Consequently, most members want to save money so readily accepts (BDU's) and with mimimal cost (e.g. name tapes, rank, cap patches) etc. are equipped with a field uniform.  The issue alwaysseems to  become proper outwear (jackets) & hats, as well as weight & grooming requirements with these military type uniforms.   I don't personally see the BDU's as a wanna bee type activity because primarily it is a financial decision by most members.  They don't buy the blue BDU's aka CAP distinct field uniform. 

In my unit about 90% of seniors are wearing military BDU's, only about 10% of us are wearing the distinct field type uniforms.  (BTW I do meet grooming & weight standards).   

My viewpoint is we shouldn't look like an invading Army in the community.  Quite frankly there's been confusion by some civilians thinking that our senior membership is in the military.  That to me is troubling.

The entire uniform wear aspect in CAP is so diverse and even here on this website seems to get a lot of attention.   Should we look military or should we as CAP have a mandatory senior member wear distinct field uniform   Surely another posting thread can be expected
RM       

[DrJbdm]

How is it troubling that some civilians see us as military?? How can that possible be troubling? Looking like an invading army to the community??

When you visit cities that have a military presence, do you feel like you are in the midst of an invading force? Do you believe that when people see us in military uniforms that they get afraid because they think an enemy force is invading?

  People believe what they want to believe, it's something called perception. The majority of people in the USA have no clue what CAP is nor do they care. They simply do not want to know!  They are probably more afraid of what they do not know then in what their perception tells them...such as: they see us in BDU, ABU's, Service Dress uniforms and believe "Ok, here's a part of our U.S. Military. These guys are good. Or they see us in a bunch of non military style uniforms and think.."Who are these clowns? they are not military, not police and not fire dept" "Are they real or a bunch of guys acting like clowns?"  You get a lot more questions that way...and believe me, questions are not always a good thing.

  You do not get respect by not being identifiable as someone with authority. CAP get's that essence of authority by the Air Force uniforms and the title United States Air Force Aux. Just as Police and Fire Dept get the authority in part by the uniforms as well as the Federal and State Laws that give that authority.
 
  Simple fix, if you are not into the military nature of CAP, then get out. Join another group. Turning CAP into a corporate mentality and getting rid of the Air Force and military style organization isn't going to make CAP any better. Actually CAP should go the opposite route and get even more military, even if it means an initial loss of membership numbers. We turn off a lot of people by not being one way or the other, trying to be both isn't the answer

[MooneyMeyer]

How is it troubling that some civilians see us as military?? How can that possible be troubling? Looking like an invading army to the community??

When you visit cities that have a military presence, do you feel like you are in the midst of an invading force? Do you believe that when people see us in military uniforms that they get afraid because they think an enemy force is invading?

  People believe what they want to believe, it's something called perception. The majority of people in the USA have no clue what CAP is nor do they care. They simply do not want to know!  They are probably more afraid of what they do not know then in what their perception tells them...such as: they see us in BDU, ABU's, Service Dress uniforms and believe "Ok, here's a part of our U.S. Military. These guys are good. Or they see us in a bunch of non military style uniforms and think.."Who are these clowns? they are not military, not police and not fire dept" "Are they real or a bunch of guys acting like clowns?"  You get a lot more questions that way...and believe me, questions are not always a good thing.

  You do not get respect by not being identifiable as someone with authority. CAP get's that essence of authority by the Air Force uniforms and the title United States Air Force Aux. Just as Police and Fire Dept get the authority in part by the uniforms as well as the Federal and State Laws that give that authority.
 
  Simple fix, if you are not into the military nature of CAP, then get out. Join another group. Turning CAP into a corporate mentality and getting rid of the Air Force and military style organization isn't going to make CAP any better. Actually CAP should go the opposite route and get even more military, even if it means an initial loss of membership numbers. We turn off a lot of people by not being one way or the other, trying to be both isn't the answer

Booya!  Ditto.  I completely agree with this guy. Maybe it's a Texas thing.

[DrJbdm]

It's just a Texas thing!

[citizensoldier]

It's just a Texas thing!

Count part of Oklahoma in too. 

CS

[DrJbdm]

Sounds like it's a Texas and Oklahoma thing so far.....except for OU...lol.  Go Horns! 

[citizensoldier]

Here is why the uniform mess is what it is.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/23672553@N02/?saved=1

CS (Taking cover)

[citizensoldier]

I fail at link.  Will play with it later.

CS

[NIN]

I've seen that picture more than a few times (both with and without caption).

I have to scratch my head every time and wonder if its not some kind of a put-up.  (supposedly it was on the AF.mil site, but I don't recall if that was true)  Sort of a "PA goofed and put the photo up w/o it being fully vetted. It was taken during a practice for a ceremony." or "Someone got a little over creative with Photoshop.."

[MIKE]

Did someone say low light conditions? http://www.1800nametape.com/safety#3M

[wuzafuzz]

Did someone say low light conditions? http://www.1800nametape.com/safety#3M

Ha ha!  Actually that might be handy for backpacks, fanny packs, and tool bags that could go missing in the dark!

[AlphaSigOU]

Sounds like it's a Texas and Oklahoma thing so far.....except for OU...lol.  Go Horns! 

Hey! Quit dissin' my Sooners! 

[DrJbdm]

Darn Chuck, you had to be a Sooners fan....and to think I used to like you!     j/k

[JohnKachenmeister]

Sounds like it's a Texas and Oklahoma thing so far.....except for OU...lol.  Go Horns! 

I'm in Florida, but I agree with Texans most of the time.  This is one of those times.

[Fubar]

You do not get respect by not being identifiable as someone with authority. CAP get's that essence of authority by the Air Force uniforms and the title United States Air Force Aux. Just as Police and Fire Dept get the authority in part by the uniforms as well as the Federal and State Laws that give that authority.

I would argue that one earns respect by actions, not uniforms. Have you worn a police uniform? I did for many years and let me tell you, it does not get you respect for free. The uniforms do however provide the general public with pre-conceived notions on what people's roles are. The folks with guns enforce laws, the folks with big fire trucks typically put wet stuff on red stuff, and the folks in cammo are the people we send to other countries to defend our nation. That last one doesn't sound like the CAP to me. In fact the organizations that I've encountered that seemed to garner the least amount of respect are those emergency service organizations that wear "police-like" uniforms trying to get authority they don't have and respect they didn't earn.

I'm not looking for authority nor do I want to ride the coat tails of those in the military. CAP doesn't need authority with the general public, it needs solid relationships with emergency mangers. Obviously we need a professional and consistent appearance to achieve that goal, and I think the polo shirts accomplish that. The American Red Cross, a congressionally mandated organization (sound familiar?) somehow manages to make do without BDUs (granted, they've been around longer and the general public is aware of their mission).
 

Simple fix, if you are not into the military nature of CAP, then get out. Join another group. Turning CAP into a corporate mentality and getting rid of the Air Force and military style organization isn't going to make CAP any better. Actually CAP should go the opposite route and get even more military, even if it means an initial loss of membership numbers. We turn off a lot of people by not being one way or the other, trying to be both isn't the answer

Thank you for the offer to leave, but at this point I think I'll remain. I hope your threshold of tolerating fellow CAP members doesn't entirely depend on a person's opinion about whether or not they like to dress up like active duty personnel when they are not. I tend to lean more on what skills the person brings and their commitment level to the organization.

I have to admit, I'm new to CAP and new to this board. So far my opinion on uniforms has garnered one personal attack and an offer to leave the organization. It was not my intention to stir up trouble and I feel the need to be clear that I really don't care what uniform choices people make as long as they stay within the rules. If allowing people to dress up like they're in the military when there not brings solid volunteers to the organization and the USAF is OK with it, then so am I. Not that my approval required or requested. 

[Fubar]

I've seen that picture more than a few times (both with and without caption).

I don't care who ya are, that's funny right there. Great pic.

[Rotorhead]

I have to admit, I'm new to CAP and new to this board. So far my opinion on uniforms has garnered one personal attack and an offer to leave the organization. It was not my intention to stir up trouble

No? Coulda fooled me with statements like, "... they like to dress up like active duty personnel when they are not."

CAP has worn AF-style uniforms for a very long time; when you come here and start making statements like that, you're going to rile people up, and with good reason.

You show your ignorance with the Red Cross comparison. Question: of which branch of the US military is the American Red Cross an auxiliary? Answer: None.

The Civil Air Patrol is the auxiliary of the USAF. If you can't see the difference there, you might consider keeping your mouth shut for a while.

[aveighter]

Fubar. 

Handle well chosen.