Update on ABU wear.

[Hawk200]

The uniforms do however provide the general public with pre-conceived notions on what people's roles are. The folks with guns enforce laws, the folks with big fire trucks typically put wet stuff on red stuff, and the folks in cammo are the people we send to other countries to defend our nation.

Is this all that you think military personnel are? Where have you been living?

How about the National Guard personnel that deliver supplies to people stranded in blizzards?

How about the National Guard personnel that showed up to drop barriers on broken dykes in New Orleans?

How about the ones that filled and placed sandbags?

How about the ones that showed up to assist when wildfires burn down a local community (something I've done personally)

Doesn't seem like they're all here to get sent to another country. How about considering the facts first before making an argument with no validity.

I'll second you aveighter.

[Fubar]

No? Coulda fooled me with statements like, "... they like to dress up like active duty personnel when they are not."

You are of course right and I apologize. That statement was too harsh, I let my emotions get the better of me. This will not come as a surprise, but it's not unusual to have my intelligence questioned and I should be able to handle it better.

Assuming you're not in the military, why are you so passionate about wearing the essentially the same uniform as those who are actually in the military? If it's not because you want to look like someone in the military (which I infer is not a reason you do), then why? Someone mentioned authority, but I don't see that as an issue a uniform resolves. Respect was also mentioned, but the CAP should stand on it's own reputation, not mooch off our members in the military.

(I've read this last paragraph a few times, I really hope it comes off as inoffensive as I intend and I won't have to apologize again).

You show your ignorance with the Red Cross comparison. Question: of which branch of the US military is the American Red Cross an auxiliary? Answer: None.

Perhaps this is a bit anal-retentive (is that supposed to be hyphenated?), but given the number of MOUs the ARC has with federal agencies and how integral they are to the response plans of FEMA (for as well as those work anyway), I'd say they are involved with more federal agencies than the CAP is and have far more responsibilities than CAP does. But no, you are right, they are not officially an auxiliary, but then maybe I was posting during a corporate moment, thus lessening the difference between CAP and the ARC?

The Civil Air Patrol is the auxiliary of the USAF. If you can't see the difference there, you might consider keeping your mouth shut for a while.

If I keep my mouth shut, how will I gain the benefit of being educated by people like you? The USAF tasks (and funds) the CAP with certain missions, FEMA and other agencies task the ARC with a number of responsibilities (often without funding) during a disaster. To me, the biggest difference between the two is that one organization was given the title of auxiliary and the other wasn't. Doesn't seem to effect the accomplishments of either organization and I find it telling that nowhere on the BDU uniform does the word "AUXILIARY" appear.

My opinion is that wearing a uniform from our military is something that needs to be earned by joining the military. I have friends that are active duty USAF and I would feel absolutely silly wearing a military uniform in their presence. They gave up a lot to be in the air force, they move every few years and spend months apart from their families. I think the service CAP members provide is admirable, it's one of the reasons I was drawn to the organization, but it doesn't compare to joining the military.

At the end of the day, the USAF authorizes CAP members to wear an USAF-style uniform and the "corporate" military-style uniforms. While I don't understand why there are so many uniforms and why CAP couldn't function without a military uniform, it doesn't affect my enjoyment of being a member of CAP. As previously mentioned, I'm new but according to my research the CAP military uniform used to be more distinctive but the push has been to reduce the differences between CAP and USAF uniforms, so clearly the leadership of the CAP see things differently than I do.

[Thom]

Did someone say low light conditions? http://www.1800nametape.com/safety#3M

Well, not to give Ma Blue any ideas, but have you seen what they did to the Australian Navy Uniforms, to assist with Man Overboard scenarios?



Eeeewwww.  I'll keep my Orange/Lime Vest, thank you very much.  At least that can come off, occasionally.

Thom Hamilton

[Fubar]

Is this all that you think military personnel are? Where have you been living?

No, it is not. I didn't think a full detailed task list was necessary given the topic of discussion, although perhaps I should have used the National Guard instead of the full-time military to describe the impression camouflage gives the general public since that is who the civilian population generally encounters during disasters.

I'm not in the National Guard and have no intention of dressing like I'm in the national guard, I haven't earned that right like you have.

And all though you don't care for me, I would still like to thank you for your service.

[Rotorhead]

My opinion is that wearing a uniform from our military is something that needs to be earned by joining the military.

Perhaps, but the military itself, i.e., the USAF, holds the opinion  that CAP members are justified in wearing a uniform similar to theirs.

My point was, and is, that you--as they used to say---have a lot of nerve coming into an organization and then telling its members how you feel things should be done.

If you don't feel worthy of wearing the USAF-style uniform, then don't.

But don't suggest that the rest of us are somehow wrong for wearing it.

[Larry Mangum]

FUBAR,

A lot of us have served or currently serving in the military and were taught to wear a uniform properly.  Because of that we take the wear of the uniform seriously. 

The Air Force had honored Civil Air Patrol and it members by allowing us to wear it's uniforms.  It behoves all of us to recognize that it is an honor and to always strive to wear whatever uniform we put on in such a manner that it brings credit upon us; Civil Air Patrol; and the Air Force.

Civil Air Patrol, as the auxillary of the Air Force, is by it's very nature a para military organization and not a social club. But like any organization, wither it is the Lions or the Optimist, when a person joins that organization, the person agrees to follow it's rules and bylaws. In CAP, that means following the rules and regulations as established in our regulations and manuals. This includes CAPR 39-1 and its supplements and ICL's.

BTW, You do know what FUBAR stands for right?

[Fubar]

My point was, and is, that you--as they used to say---have a lot of nerve coming into an organization and then telling its members how you feel things should be done.

Point taken. Believe it or not, I did not intend the sharing of my opinion to indicate all other opinions are wrong (my hot-headed comment did not help my cause at all in this). This all started because I was sharing why I thought the polo shirt existed.

If you don't feel worthy of wearing the USAF-style uniform, then don't.

That's the plan unless someone changes my mind about the military uniform. I do plan on talking about this with some of the active duty USAF and national guard members I know to get their take.

But don't suggest that the rest of us are somehow wrong for wearing it.

It's wrong for me, but I fully respect people to come to their own decisions. As you say, the USAF says it's ok so it's certainly not wrong as far as they're concerned (and they ultimately hold the opinion that matters).

[Fubar]

A lot of us have served or currently serving in the military and were taught to wear a uniform properly.  Because of that we take the wear of the uniform seriously.

You and your fellow members of the military, both past and present, are the biggest factor I considered when I made the personal choice about which uniform I wear. I would not be embarrassed to wear the AF uniform because of the people in the military who have worn it before me, but that their accomplishments and service deserve distinction from people like me who have not served through military service. My concern is my wearing their uniform lessons that distinction.

The Air Force had honored Civil Air Patrol and it members by allowing us to wear it's uniforms.  It behoves all of us to recognize that it is an honor and to always strive to wear whatever uniform we put on in such a manner that it brings credit upon us; Civil Air Patrol; and the Air Force.

Very well stated. Your comment definitely puts me in a box, do I respect the USAF by graciously accepting the honor of wearing their USAF uniform, or do I hold to my convictions that I don't want to be mistaken for the men and women who have sacrificed so much to be a member of the Military, Military Reserves, and National Guard?

You've given me much to think about.

BTW, You do know what FUBAR stands for right?

Heh, yes I do and I assure you, I'm plenty ugly enough to pull off using the nickname. In fact i was surprised the username was still available here.

[heliodoc]

Fubar knows his "call sign"

With the CAP uniform "issues" and desires to be in the ABU ........  its SNAFU

What only CAPers know what FUBAR stands for??

[BrandonKea]

I do plan on talking about this with some of the active duty USAF and national guard members I know to get their take.

There's a difference between the uniform we wear and the USAF uniform. It is modeled in the same style, but it isn't the same. Asking a lay AD Air Force person wouldn't really get you much, but the Air Force as a whole has stamped their seal of approval on us wearing AF-Style uniforms, so as long as you wear it IAW 39-1, they officially "don't care."

[JohnKachenmeister]

The facts remain...

The Civil Air Patrol is the only military auxiliary that has a battle history.

The Civil Air Patrol has worn the uniform of the US Air Force, with distinctive insignia, since the days when the Air Force was the Army Air Corps.

The Air Force is a big part of our heritage.  WE are a big part of the Air Force's heritage.  It is because of us that the USAF can lay claim to the fact that its Auxiliary became the first irregular military force to engage and drive off a foreign enemy since the War of 1812.

All of these facts result in the Air Force welcoming us as their Auxiliary, and authorizing us to wear the uniform, with distinctive insignia. 

If you are ashamed of our traditions and heritage, Fubar, we are ashamed of you.

[heliodoc]

Fubar

Welcome to CAPTALK where the history lessons and verbal errrr typed abuse of non initiated CAP new folks come in to play

U pay your dues here....but take this website with a grain a' salt and wear your duck feathers of Teflon

You'll be amazed at you do or don't learn here

Some accurate and some wishing it was accurate

[Fubar]

If you are ashamed of our traditions and heritage, Fubar, we are ashamed of you.

I don't recall stating I was ashamed of the Civil Air Patrol and if I did, it was a tremendous error.

However if you wish to be ashamed of me, I'm afraid you'll have to get in line. It's easy to spot, it's the one that starts behind my mother.

[aveighter]

This person is merely a fool, here only for their own amusement. 

Probably not even an American.

Any further dialogue is simply a waste of time.

[Spike]

^??