New USAF Service Coat

[JohnKachenmeister]

Thanks.  I saw the Death's Head, but the pilot badge and gray color threw me.  Also he didn't have the little lighting bolts "SS" letters.  (Fur "Schutzstaffeln").

[teesquared]

Hmmm. Looks like we're going back to our roots. 

USAAF WW2 uniform.

[Pylon]

By the way, the comparisons to Nazi Germany's uniforms are un-needed.  The scalloped pockets, wasit belt, and the general appearance of those uniforms is Prussian in original.  Dozens of militaries have adopted the same look and appearance.

[fyrfitrmedic]

AAAAAA!!! Now I know why I don't like it... it reminds me of this:

I think Nazi Germany had some of the best looking uniforms ever. Just my opinion.

Hugo Boss was the design house for many of the Third Reich's uniforms, if me mory serves.

[MIKE]

Consider this your second warning.

[Smokey]

I don't think anyone here is condoning the Nazis or what they stood for. The discussion was a reference to similarities in uniforms styles.

I will be the first the slap the s**t out of anyone here who says anything in support of Nazis ideas. And I am a first generation American of German descent.

But to ignore history or references to it in the vein of political correctness is wrong.  A discussion of uniform styles, uniform heritage, etc without political comment should be acceptable.

Should we not discuss a uniform if it had similarities to Iraq's Republican Guard, or the Chinese Army ...certainly not.  I don't believe anyone here is advocating the philosophies of those we detest.  However, a civil discussion of uniform origins, similarities, etc.  makes for healthy discussion.

Should however anyone inject ideologies into the discussion, they deserve to be cut off.

[Bear Walling]

Since the comparisons are un-needed, I will just keep them to myself... Sorry if anything I have said offended anyone, it was not intentional. I was just replying to someone elses post.

[LtCol White]

Hmmm. Looks like we're going back to our roots. 

USAAF WW2 uniform.

That is exactly what USAF was doing when they were looking for a new coat. They looked at the uniform worn by Billy Mitchell and also Hap Arnold. The version selected was the Hap Arnold with smaller lapels. They are going to wear test with and without the belt so the belt is not a done deal.

[mikeylikey]

Hmmm. Looks like we're going back to our roots. 

USAAF WW2 uniform.

That is exactly what USAF was doing when they were looking for a new coat. They looked at the uniform worn by Billy Mitchell and also Hap Arnold. The version selected was the Hap Arnold with smaller lapels. They are going to wear test with and without the belt so the belt is not a done deal.

I understand the AF referes to the jacket as the "HAP Arnold", but in all reality it is the Army Service Jacket circa 1928.  Why can't they call it that.  To associate it with Arnold, makes you think he designed it.  Don't forget all AF uniforms up until 1953 were Army uniforms.   

Edit: Quotes -TA

[Major Carrales]

Hmmm. Looks like we're going back to our roots. 

USAAF WW2 uniform.

That is exactly what USAF was doing when they were looking for a new coat. They looked at the uniform worn by Billy Mitchell and also Hap Arnold. The version selected was the Hap Arnold with smaller lapels. They are going to wear test with and without the belt so the belt is not a done deal.

I understand the AF referes to the jacket as the "HAP Arnold", but in all reality it is the Army Service Jacket circa 1928.  Why can't they call it that.  To associate it with Arnold, makes you think he designed it.  Don't forget all AF uniforms up until 1953 were Army uniforms.   

Edit: Quotes -TA

These jackets were based on designs seen in PHOTOs and Paintings of Mitchell and Arnold.  As far as the ARMY, I don't recall the US Army ever having a blue uniform of that cut.

[mikeylikey]

^ The Army did not.  The AF used the same cut jacket just colored it blue. 

[afgeo4]

Then why not redesign the service cap to look like the old one? Then we could just color them all shades of gray and scare people on streets into thinking they fell into a 1950's WW2 movie!

[Smokey]

From Todays Air Force magazine online......

Fit Tests for New Coat Begin: Some 150 airmen in the San Antonio area are participating in a fit test of the Air Force's new service coat, dubbed the Heritage Coat. The test will run from Jan. 28 to Feb. 1 at Brooks City-Base, Lackland Air Force Base, and Randolph Air Force Base. Later in February and in March, the fit test moves to the Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs, Colo. and Maxwell AFB, Ala. Heritage Coat program manager, Capt. Jonathan Pellum, with the 648th Aeronautical Systems Squadron at Brooks, said the fit tests will provide initial data this spring that will show whether the service needs to make changes to the coat before beginning the wear test later this year. The Air Force designed the new coat based on input from airmen who said they favored a historical influence. (311th Human Systems Wing report by Rudy Purificato)

[RogueLeader]

Then why not redesign the service cap to look like the old one? Then we could just color them all shades of gray and scare people on streets into thinking they fell into a 1950's WW2 movie!

Hey, then our epaulets would match then, and we wouldn't be asking for anything new. Right?

[afgeo4]

From Todays Air Force magazine online......

Fit Tests for New Coat Begin: Some 150 airmen in the San Antonio area are participating in a fit test of the Air Force's new service coat, dubbed the Heritage Coat. The test will run from Jan. 28 to Feb. 1 at Brooks City-Base, Lackland Air Force Base, and Randolph Air Force Base. Later in February and in March, the fit test moves to the Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs, Colo. and Maxwell AFB, Ala. Heritage Coat program manager, Capt. Jonathan Pellum, with the 648th Aeronautical Systems Squadron at Brooks, said the fit tests will provide initial data this spring that will show whether the service needs to make changes to the coat before beginning the wear test later this year. The Air Force designed the new coat based on input from airmen who said they favored a historical influence. (311th Human Systems Wing report by Rudy Purificato)

Never thought the day would come when wear testing of a uniform would fall solely on AETC.

Speaking of... the General in question isn't with AETC, so how come he's wearing it?

[DNall]

Cause generals get all the cools new stuff before everyone else.

[Eclipse]

http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123083454

Brooks to serve as initial venue to test fit new service coat

by Rudy Purificato
311th Human Systems Wing

1/23/2008 - BROOKS CITY-BASE, Texas (AFPN)  -- About 150 Airmen from Brooks City-Base, Lackland and Randolph Air Force Bases in Texas, will participate in a fit test of the new Air Force Heritage service dress coat here Jan. 28 - Feb. 1.

Subsequent fit tests in February and March are slated for the Air Force Academy and Maxwell-Gunter AFB, Ala. prior to an official wear test period scheduled for this summer.

The initiative to replace the current Air Force service dress coat was inaugurated in 2006 by Gen. T. Michael Moseley, Air Force Chief of Staff.

"Only the service coat is being replaced," said Capt. Jonathan Pellum, Heritage Coat program manager for the 648th Aeronautical Systems Squadron here. "General Moseley wanted the coat updated to reflect Air Force heritage."

The 648th AESS, part of the 77th Aeronautical Systems Group, is tasked with conducting the series of fit tests for Airmen.

"Once we complete the fit test at Maxwell, we will be able to provide initial data by May to the Air Force Chief of Staff," Captain Pellum said. "This data will determine if changes or modifications to the coat are needed before the garment is wear tested. About 200 active-duty members Air Force-wide will test wear the new coat."

The Air Force Uniform Program Office at Wright-Patterson AFB, Ohio, is responsible for making modifications to the new coat that currently is a 55 percent polyester/45 percent wool blend.

According to a story by Staff Sergeant J.G. Buzanowski from the Secretary of the Air Force Public Affairs Office, the new service coat has gone through several prototypes. Air Force leaders have since settled on a design similar to the uniform worn by Gen. Henry "Hap" Arnold during World War II.

In Sergeant Buzanowki's story, Brig. Gen. Floyd L. Carpenter, Airmen Development and Sustainment director, said, "We tried several design variations with different lapel styles and sizes, with and without buttons, belted and unbelted, as well as versions with a wide variety of pocket configurations. The prototype coat being tested pulls the strongest mix of detail preferences into one coat and combines them with the latest in textile assembly industry."

General Carpenter said the Air Force Uniform Board will make the decision on final coat modifications. General Moseley has final approval on the new design prior to its production. Captain Pellum estimates, if the program becomes mandatory, the initial cost to be $125 million to manufacture the new coat for the active and Reserve components.

The captain said the Air Force Honor Guard will be among the first to receive the new coat.

[BuckeyeDEJ]

I don't have a problem with the current uniform. I'd rather wear a simple uniform than a museum exhibit.

Hey, doesn't the side with the simplest uniforms win? 

Were you around when that one came in? There is such a thing as too simple.

I can remember Airline pilot and stewardess jokes being told, ad nauseam. Can't say I'm gonna miss it, I don't like suits anyway.

I wore the old blues. They were fine, but in retrospect, we looked like the Air Army and the Civil Army Air Patrol. This uniform identifies us as a separate service, it takes the "clean uniform" philosophy to its logical end, and it just plain works.

The heritage coat is more backlash from some in the Air Force who didn't like the 1993 change. Comments on Air Force Times don't run favorable, if I remember correctly. Some unidentified captain said it should be the subject of a fraud, waste and abuse complaint!

The temptation to keep adding insignia to it runs counter to what the 1993 concept was all about, though at least the Air Force's insignia is tasteful (why can't CAP's be?).

Someone said Gen. Brady is wearing the heritage coat because "generals get all the cool stuff." Not true. He was one of the uniform board members who helped make the decision. The photos that leaked out a couple of years ago across the Air Force had him (then with one less star) in all the service coat options, be it the "Billy Mitchell," the "Hap Arnold" or the "Star Trek" (the latter had a choker collar that the rank went on). Generals don't always get the "cool stuff" first.

[Eclipse]

The temptation to keep adding insignia to it runs counter to what the 1993 concept was all about, though at least the Air Force's insignia is tasteful (why can't CAP's be?).

What's not tasteful about our service dress insignia?  Its basically identical to the USAF.

[BuckeyeDEJ]

The temptation to keep adding insignia to it runs counter to what the 1993 concept was all about, though at least the Air Force's insignia is tasteful (why can't CAP's be?).

What's not tasteful about our service dress insignia?  Its basically identical to the USAF.

It's not the basic uniform, but what CAP does with it!

Start with the specialty-track shields. I'd much rather see those badges replaced with badges that go over the ribbons, not too much unlike the Air Force's specialty insignia. But this time, maybe Vanguard can design them or the Institute of Heraldry or something, rather than someone with a PC, Microsoft Publisher and the latest clip-art collection?

(Full disclosure: In real life, I'm a designer. Illustrator, Photoshop, FreeHand, QuarkXPress, Mac and PC if I have to, and professional accolades along the way. I think I have some standing here. And I had to get a dig in on Publisher, sorry.)

Won't even mention the sordid assortment of patches available for the BDU, which got out of hand a long time ago. The Pluto ES patch added insult to injury -- the previous patch was superfluous, the new one hokey.

Many of you may not remember (or at least you didn't wear) the cadet achievement ribbons pre-mid-1980s, which had cartoons on 'em. I wore them... and felt some relief when they were redesigned!

I guess my feeling is that we need to be a little more reverent and restrained when it comes to adding or designing insignia. Image goes a long way toward getting respect, especially from our parent service.