Flight Suit Wear

[afgeo4]

Why do rated members get a flight suit to wear when not flying and and everyone else is in BDU's?  So basically, your better than everyone else if your a pilot, and you have a need to differentiate yourself from those around you?  (not you personally.)  What is an AE activity?  Would that be an Aerospace lesson to cadets?  So, the cadets are all in Blues or BDU's and you roll in wearing your bag.  Doesn't make sense.

As far as flight suits go, EVERYONE should be allowed to wear them.  Especially when I have seen hundreds of them sitting in DRMO's. 

"Rated" members get to wear flightsuits because they are rated...just like other aircrew, civil and military.
Why?  Because we are better.   Not in the personal sense but because we have spent the bucks (pilots) and did the work to achieve the rating.   Simple as that.   Want to wear the flightsuit?   Earn it.   Otherwise, BDU for you.
Which is exactly why some want to restrict us from wearing it...

WHAT are you talking about?

Flightsuits are worn for protection and utility while flying. They were designed for aviators to protect them from fire and the pockets were placed in such a way that would allow for ease of access in the sitting position. There is NO uniform that denotes that anyone is "better" or worse for ANY reason.

Field uniforms are worn for protection from the elements, camouflage, and durability in the field. Their pockets were placed specifically to assist in field conditions.

All military uniforms were created for specific uses and none were created to denote "status". That's what rank insignia is for.

Now I suggest you apologize to all the ground pounders before your aircraft suffers a "forced landing" and you become dependent on their inexpensive training.

[SJFedor]

If I could find a smiley or avatar for "Pissing Into the Wind", I'd be posting it right now.

Seriously, this post is asinine to an almost hilarious level. What measureable outcome can come from this argument? The division of our aircrews and ground teams by uniform?

My personal opinion? Regulations excluded, if someone wants to wear a flightsuit, let them, if it's appropriate for the situation. Doing office work and the flightsuit is more comfortable and convienant then blues? Go for it.

Frackin ridiculous....

[SJFedor]

"Rated" members get to wear flightsuits because they are rated...just like other aircrew, civil and military.
Why?  Because we are better.   Not in the personal sense but because we have spent the bucks (pilots) and did the work to achieve the rating.   Simple as that.   Want to wear the flightsuit?   Earn it.   Otherwise, BDU for you.
Which is exactly why some want to restrict us from wearing it...

Speak for yourself there, cowboy. I absolutely do not consider myself better then the officer dedicated to running the cadet program, the non-flying IC, or any other contributing member of CAP, flying or not.

Your pompous attitude and general disdain for anyone except those in your "percieved" flying club is disgusting.

And this is coming from a rated CAP Pilot, Mission Pilot, and Mission Check Pilot.

[DogCollar]

Okay...I'm willing to earn the wrath of those wearing the flight suit.  I understand safety, but after that, I don't understand the appeal?  It reminds me of the overalls that the exterminator wears when spraying for bugs at my house!!

Why do I suddenly hear Cessna's circling above???  Oh, I see them...when did they start letting Cessna's carry ordinance???  Oooops

[JayT]

Okay...I'm willing to earn the wrath of those wearing the flight suit.  I understand safety, but after that, I don't understand the appeal?  It reminds me of the overalls that the exterminator wears when spraying for bugs at my house!!

Why do I suddenly hear Cessna's circling above???  Oh, I see them...when did they start letting Cessna's carry ordinance???  Oooops

Well, but bug killers don't get cool patches Padre!

[Pace]

"Rated" members get to wear flightsuits because they are rated...just like other aircrew, civil and military.
Why?  Because we are better.   Not in the personal sense but because we have spent the bucks (pilots) and did the work to achieve the rating.   Simple as that.   Want to wear the flightsuit?   Earn it.   Otherwise, BDU for you.
Which is exactly why some want to restrict us from wearing it...

You have 116 to my 13, cadet....   Hardly reposting and criticizing "every single thing."

Yikes.  You seem to have a problem with respect.  Telling non-aircrew members that they're a lower class of member and using the term "cadet" as an indicator of a lower status of member as well won't be tolerated here.

I'll take 1 hard working, motivated mission radio operator or flight line marshaller over 10 arrogant pilots any day.
-CFI / CAP Pilot / IC

[Hawk200]

If I could find a smiley or avatar for "Pissing Into the Wind", I'd be posting it right now.

Seriously, this post is asinine to an almost hilarious level. What measureable outcome can come from this argument? The division of our aircrews and ground teams by uniform?

My personal opinion? Regulations excluded, if someone wants to wear a flightsuit, let them, if it's appropriate for the situation. Doing office work and the flightsuit is more comfortable and convienant then blues? Go for it.

Frackin ridiculous....

I like your viewpoint. The flightsuit is comfortable in the plane (or a helicopter), and it's just as comfortable sitting in an office chair after the flight doing paperwork.

Most of the naysayers seem to be stuck on it as a status symbol. There is a lot of irony in that, because I have only been on one flight in the last couple of years where I wasn't the only one on the aircrew wearing a flightsuit. Everyone else was in a golf shirt. The only other person wearing one was a mission pilot who was flying as the observer that day.

[Smokey]

On the Nellis AFB website today is a story about AF Chief of Staff Gen Michael Mosley meeting with a Saudi Prince.....care to notice what uniform he is wearing for this important meeting......

Also this picture was taken on a Friday (8 Feb) ...and it appears the General is wearing his "Friday" name patch using his callsign "Buzz." Also note the color of his boots.

The pic attached is a bit small, but if you go to the Nellis website (www.nellis.af.mil ) and open the story you can get to a bigger pic)

[kilnerd]

I am not going to argue points here, I will only say that so long as a member is in uniform, wearing it properly, and presenting a professional image why does it matter so long as the uniform is appropriate for the occasion.

Oh and BTW, If you look at various pics of the AF Chief of Staff at different times, many of those times you will notice a patch on the left sleeve where the pen pouch cover was, it is an F-15 silhouette patch. Also, if you reference his bio you will see that this is one of his rated airframes. I do not think that people should wear them (they are referred to as morale patches) but it is hard to tell people not to do something that their leader does.

[Hawk200]

I do not think that people should wear them (they are referred to as morale patches) but it is hard to tell people not to do something that their leader does.

Generals are typically allowed some latitude with their uniform items. Things like jackets with names embroidered, belt buckles, some even wear fancy pistol belts with BDU's.

As for the morale patches, if the general wears it and doesn't discourage it, there's probably no real issues. But if they're telling people not to wear it, and they do, there's a problem.

Flightsuits are particularly troublesome on that issue, because it's easy to place or remove unauthorized patch. I don't know if it's an issue in the active Army, but I've been seeing some unauthorized patches on ACU's in the last couple months on the Guard side of the house. I think the "Regular Guy" tab has been the most prominent.

[afgeo4]

On the Nellis AFB website today is a story about AF Chief of Staff Gen Michael Mosley meeting with a Saudi Prince.....care to notice what uniform he is wearing for this important meeting......

Also this picture was taken on a Friday (8 Feb) ...and it appears the General is wearing his "Friday" name patch using his callsign "Buzz." Also note the color of his boots.

The pic attached is a bit small, but if you go to the Nellis website (www.nellis.af.mil ) and open the story you can get to a bigger pic)

He is an aviator and flew to Saudi Arabia which allows him to wear the proper duty uniform for flying, the flightsuit. Friday patches are authorized by commanders and funny thing is... he's the commander. Boots are 100% appropriate color for his uniform. They're sage green. His t-shirt is sand in color. He, like all other generals has been wearing the ABU for a while.

How does this relate to our topic?

[SarDragon]

Well, George, it may not exactly relate to the topic, but I think you ought to read the caption, quoted below, before further commenting on the picture. [emphasis mine]

2/11/2008 - NELLIS AIR FORCE BASE, Nev.—U.S. Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. T. Michael Moseley, welcomes His Royal Highness Prince Khalid bin Abdul Aziz Al-Saud here Feb. 8. The prince, who is the Assistant Minister of Defense and Aviation for Military Affairs, arrived at Nellis to observe the Royal Saudi air force's participation during the ongoing Red Flag exercise. (U.S. Air Force photo by Senior Airman Larry E. Reid Jr.)

[BlueLakes1]

Here are a few other press releases with the good general in a flightsuit and not flying.

http://www.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/080123-F-5190P-001.jpg

The caption to this photo reads:

Army, Air Force leaders discuss interoperability
Army Chief of Staff Gen. George W. Casey Jr. (left), and Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. T. Michael Moseley sign a memorandum of agreement during the "Warfighter Talks" held Jan. 23 at Bolling Air Force Base, D.C. The two generals met to discuss interdependency and interoperability between the Army and Air Force. (U.S. Air Force photo/Michael Pausic)

To save you potential embarassment, Bolling doesn't have runways; the General couldn't have flown there.

http://www.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/051213-F-3050V-079.jpg

Media round table
WASHINGTON (AFPN) -- Chief of Staff of the Air Force Gen. T. Michael Moseley (left) -- with Secretary of the Air Force Michael W. Wynne at his side -- answers a reporter's question during a media round table discussion at the Pentagon Dec. 13. (U.S. Air Force photo by Master Sgt. Jim Varhegyi)

I KNOW he didn't fly there!

http://www.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/051014-F-0000L-001.jpg

General McNabb takes command of AMC 
SCOTT AIR FORCE BASE, Ill. -- Gen. T. Michael Moseley, far left, Air Force Chief of Staff, transfers command of Air Mobility Command to Gen. Duncan McNabb. The assumption of command took place here Oct. 14.

Like it, don't like it, IT'S A DUTY UNIFORM, worn daily whether flying or not!

[Smokey]

Kind of interesting on the General's patches.  In the first one the patch on his right sleeve is from the 65th Aggressor Squadron (Red Flag adversary folks) at Nellis and the left sleeve is from the Weapons School at Nellis.

In the second photos he has the patch from the 66th Rescue Squadron at Nellis (they fly the HH-60) and the other sleeve the Weapons School.

His "Morale" patch on the pen pocket is the F-15 in both photos.

In the third picture he has the Heritage Flight patch worn by the demo team.

I don't think the General is rated in the HH-60 and don't think he served with the 66th RQS (at least according to his bio on the AF site).  He is a graduate of the Weapons School and was the commander there once.

[ricecakecm]

Here are a few other press releases with the good general in a flightsuit and not flying.

http://www.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/080123-F-5190P-001.jpg

The caption to this photo reads:

Army, Air Force leaders discuss interoperability
Army Chief of Staff Gen. George W. Casey Jr. (left), and Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. T. Michael Moseley sign a memorandum of agreement during the "Warfighter Talks" held Jan. 23 at Bolling Air Force Base, D.C. The two generals met to discuss interdependency and interoperability between the Army and Air Force. (U.S. Air Force photo/Michael Pausic)

To save you potential embarassment, Bolling doesn't have runways; the General couldn't have flown there.

http://www.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/051213-F-3050V-079.jpg

Media round table
WASHINGTON (AFPN) -- Chief of Staff of the Air Force Gen. T. Michael Moseley (left) -- with Secretary of the Air Force Michael W. Wynne at his side -- answers a reporter's question during a media round table discussion at the Pentagon Dec. 13. (U.S. Air Force photo by Master Sgt. Jim Varhegyi)

I KNOW he didn't fly there!

http://www.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/051014-F-0000L-001.jpg

General McNabb takes command of AMC 
SCOTT AIR FORCE BASE, Ill. -- Gen. T. Michael Moseley, far left, Air Force Chief of Staff, transfers command of Air Mobility Command to Gen. Duncan McNabb. The assumption of command took place here Oct. 14.

Like it, don't like it, IT'S A DUTY UNIFORM, worn daily whether flying or not!

Amen!

I went to a SAR Exercise over the weekend with my Wing Commander to observe the event and possibly put out some fires.  I called the wing king the day before "Hey boss, what are you going to wear?"  His reply:  "My bag.".  So I wore my bag too.  Did we fly?  Nope (he's not Form 5 current and I don't do much CAP flying anyways).  It's just the uniform he chose to wear, so I wore my bag to present a uniform appearance.

I don't see a difference between wearing a bag while performing office duties and wearing BDUs while performing the same duties.  Heck, I don't even have a set of BDUs with the most current set up on them.  Visit any Air Force Base, tons of guys walking around in bags.  My guess is that probably 85% or better are not going to be flying that day (for those that are rated).

So, like Matt said, it's a duty uniform.  Get over it.

[Carl C]

I wasn't going to bother but the number of out-of-context asinine comments and personal attacks is utterly amazing.

I took exception to one who seems to think aircrew (aircrew - not pilot) wearing a flightsuit indicated said crew held the opinion of being "better" (a quote) than other members.     I also suggest that flightsuit wear was indeed a form of reward for making the effort of obtaining aircrew (aircrew - not pilot) rating.   I did mention that becoming a pilot also entailed considerable expense but the gist of my comments refer to AIRCREW (aircrew - not pilots) as in Observer and Scanner as well as pilots.   I suggest the wear of BDU type is (or at least should be) along the same line a sort of reward for earning ground team rating.   I used the word "better" in reference to those who make the effort to achieve more than the general run-of-the-mill member.  I even specified that DID NOT imply personally "better."   etc, etc, etc....
Let's see...   oh yes.   "Cadet" is an entirely proper form of address.   For a cadet to presume to direct, limit, order and/or instruct an adult and senior member is, in my humble opinion - rather rude.
Take your shots...have a good time.   There's nothing of value here.     Mr. dcpacemaker, CAPTalk Moderator
Dark S'Member Lord (whatever that is), feel free to delete any and all trace of my posted opinion as well as my login information.   What a waste of time...

[Hawk200]

I wasn't going to bother but the number of out-of-context asinine comments and personal attacks is utterly amazing.

I took exception to one who seems to think aircrew (aircrew - not pilot) wearing a flightsuit indicated said crew held the opinion of being "better" (a quote) than other members.     I also suggest that flightsuit wear was indeed a form of reward for making the effort of obtaining aircrew (aircrew - not pilot) rating.   I did mention that becoming a pilot also entailed considerable expense but the gist of my comments refer to AIRCREW (aircrew - not pilots) as in Observer and Scanner as well as pilots.   I suggest the wear of BDU type is (or at least should be) along the same line a sort of reward for earning ground team rating.   I used the word "better" in reference to those who make the effort to achieve more than the general run-of-the-mill member.  I even specified that DID NOT imply personally "better."   etc, etc, etc....
Let's see...   oh yes.   "Cadet" is an entirely proper form of address.   For a cadet to presume to direct, limit, order and/or instruct an adult and senior member is, in my humble opinion - rather rude.
Take your shots...have a good time.   There's nothing of value here.     Mr. dcpacemaker, CAPTalk Moderator
Dark S'Member Lord (whatever that is), feel free to delete any and all trace of my posted opinion as well as my login information.   What a waste of time...

It all smacks of elitism. That's a problem. Everyone works on the team.

If a person doesn't fly at all, and never, there is probably no real reason for them to have a bag. If they want to wear it they should check with their CC. BDU's are far different. Try telling someone in the Air Force that they don't deserve to wear a utility unless they go in the woods, and they're likely to introduce their differing opinion to you in a painful manner. Allowing BDU wear as a "reward" is simple elitism, an attitude of "Look what I got!".

I guess you might not read this. If you do, hopefully you'll consider it enough of a waste of time to move on.

[BuckeyeDEJ]

Kind of interesting on the General's patches.

Gen. Moseley, like most senior officers, can opt to wear the patches of the unit he's visiting and/or flying with. This is not uncommon -- even if you're on an Air Force wing staff, and you're flying with one of your squadrons, you'll slap on their patches to fly with them.

I've seen the CSAF wear his HAF (that's Headquarters Air Force for you up in West Virginia) MAJCOM patch, as he typically would, on his flight suit.

You'll notice with the Saudi, he's wearing the ACC MAJCOM patch. He's not with ACC, needless to say, but NAFB is an ACC base.

Make sense?

[JayT]

I wasn't going to bother but the number of out-of-context asinine comments and personal attacks is utterly amazing.

I took exception to one who seems to think aircrew (aircrew - not pilot) wearing a flightsuit indicated said crew held the opinion of being "better" (a quote) than other members.     I also suggest that flightsuit wear was indeed a form of reward for making the effort of obtaining aircrew (aircrew - not pilot) rating.   I did mention that becoming a pilot also entailed considerable expense but the gist of my comments refer to AIRCREW (aircrew - not pilots) as in Observer and Scanner as well as pilots.   I suggest the wear of BDU type is (or at least should be) along the same line a sort of reward for earning ground team rating.   I used the word "better" in reference to those who make the effort to achieve more than the general run-of-the-mill member.  I even specified that DID NOT imply personally "better."   etc, etc, etc....
Let's see...   oh yes.   "Cadet" is an entirely proper form of address.   For a cadet to presume to direct, limit, order and/or instruct an adult and senior member is, in my humble opinion - rather rude.
Take your shots...have a good time.   There's nothing of value here.     Mr. dcpacemaker, CAPTalk Moderator
Dark S'Member Lord (whatever that is), feel free to delete any and all trace of my posted opinion as well as my login information.   What a waste of time...

Have fun with the little green men there Mister.

[mikeylikey]

This thread died about twelve posts up.  Perhaps a LOCK would be appropriate.  Until then let me get the last words in.

It does not matter who can or can not, who is allowed and not allowed, who should or should not.  All that matters is to remember to wear something.  On those cold days when you get the call to go fly, just imagine how terrible it would be if you went up in the Aircraft NAKED.  So from me to you, put something (anything) on and quit complaining that what you put on is not as great as what the guy down the block put on.  (Readers Digest Version of my Rant......don't go flying naked, wear something)

LOCK?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?