Wearing the ABU's

[lordmonar]

Well here we go with our relationship with the USAF again.....everytime I talk to someone in the USAF (besides me) who deals with CAP...they have nothing but good things to say about us.

Sure we step on our own appendages from time to time...but so does the USAF.  The understand that individuals are not CAP.

And I understand the need to work with the USAF and not do an end around with them.

But I have to tell you that the ACA and other military schools do not "earn" the right to wear uniforms....it is the law...they can wear the unifrom even if they piss off every military service.  They military services can't stop them from wearing the uniform....so long as they wear a patch on their unifroms stating that they are a school/educational program.

I just want to point this out to the doom and gloomers.  We enjoy a good relationship with the USAF dispite electing some poor leaders....dispite our lack of enforcing uniform standards....dispite our seeming unending internal politics.  If we did not they would stop funding us.

[0]

I just want to point this out to the doom and gloomers.  We enjoy a good relationship with the USAF dispite electing some poor leaders....dispite our lack of enforcing uniform standards....dispite our seeming unending internal politics.  If we did not they would stop funding us.

Here, here! And isn't that what the VSAF program is about?  A good working relationship with the Air Force.  It is making our ties stronger not weaker.  I can't wait till the program is out of it's Pilot Phase and gets started up at other bases too.

[Eagle400]

Well here we go with our relationship with the USAF again.....everytime I talk to someone in the USAF (besides me) who deals with CAP...they have nothing but good things to say about us.

Then obviously the relationship between CAP and Nellis is good.  It's not like that everywhere, however. 

Sure we step on our own appendages from time to time...but so does the USAF.  The understand that individuals are not CAP.

Yes, but the Air Force has an IG and quality assurance system that is more reliable than CAP's.  Why that is I don't know... maybe it's because the AF IG's and QA personnel are actually paid... but one is definitely more reliable than the other.

There's something called MTBF... Mean Time Between Failures... that measures how long something can go without a problem.  I'm guessing the AF IG's MTBF is twice as long as CAP's.   

But I have to tell you that the ACA and other military schools do not "earn" the right to wear uniforms....it is the law...they can wear the unifrom even if they piss off every military service.  They military services can't stop them from wearing the uniform....so long as they wear a patch on their unifroms stating that they are a school/educational program.

So... because CAP no longer wears wing patches on the blues, they can be taken away by the AF.  Got it.  Now I know why the reverse American flag patch was made mandatory for the BDU!   

I just want to point this out to the doom and gloomers.  We enjoy a good relationship with the USAF dispite electing some poor leaders....dispite our lack of enforcing uniform standards....dispite our seeming unending internal politics.  If we did not they would stop funding us.

I hope Col Hodgkins and all the CAP-USAF personnel see it the same way, sir.

[Eagle400]

Back to the topic... I predict that when the AF is able to supply every airman with 4 sets of ABU's, CAP will get them.

[DNall]

Back to the topic... I predict that when the AF is able to supply every airman with 4 sets of ABU's, CAP will get them.

It's not a prediction, it's a statement of fact from the AF. The only thing left to speculate on is when that may happen & what we'll be attaching to them (colors)

[SDF_Specialist]

Back to the topic... I predict that when the AF is able to supply every airman with 4 sets of ABU's, CAP will get them.

It's not a prediction, it's a statement of fact from the AF. The only thing left to speculate on is when that may happen & what we'll be attaching to them (colors)

Let's hope it's something other than the ultramarine blue. I'm stuck on the subdued nametapes. There is no real reason we can't wear them. I know, I know. Wishful thinking.

[Smokey]

I just came back from a meeting this afternoon at Edwards AFB....First on the ABU....I noticed the AF is not enforcing the hgt/wgt requirements with any gusto...I saw 3 airmen walking into the BX. All 3 had on the ABU. A female Master Sgt was about 5'5" and had to weight upwards of 180 lbs. She was soooo wide, she would have to sit down in shifts.  A male with her was about 6'00" and had to be weighing in at 250.

Two....CAP was again well treated. It was an EOM briefing for the space shuttle. The Brig General in charge treated me as part of the overall DOD team. I was treated and addressed no differently than regular AF including folks from 1st AF who were there.   Maybe it's just the relationship I Have with the Shuttle Team or the outstanding way my crew has performed in both real landings or exercises.

Carry on...

[Hawk200]

Two....CAP was again well treated. It was an EOM briefing for the space shuttle. The Brig General in charge treated me as part of the overall DOD team. I was treated and addressed no differently than regular AF including folks from 1st AF who were there.   Maybe it's just the relationship I Have with the Shuttle Team or the outstanding way my crew has performed in both real landings or exercises.

I'd say it's probably part relationship, and partly that you are known to be competent. A perfect example of when the AF sees the cream of the crop, they treat them professionally.

If you were an incompetent idiot, I have serious doubts that you would have even been a the meeting.

I'd have to say "Well done!". You've shown that CAP does have people that work within the rules, and do your job with a sense of professional pride.

[DNall]

^agreed.

Look, SF looks down on bid army, Army talks trash about the easy life AF, navy talks crap about Cg, marines talk crap about everyone cause they think they can get away with it. Active duty talks crap to national guard, even when you're in iraq together, but we're suddenly one Army when you're saving their butts.  A whole lot, maybe most people, go into the mil cause they want to feel special & better than other people. the military implicitly encourages that as we build esprit de corps. That's all normal.

In that light, a lot of the AF looks at CAP as a bunch of disorganized undisciplined poorly trained civilians, and mostly old fogies, immature kids, rejects, or dodgers at that. The don't think we do anything all that important (by comparison to the big AF), we don't have big impressive gear, etc.

A lot of that is crap. It require educating the audience. River has made a good point about how CGAux is a required unit at their basic/commissioning sources. That's something AU/AETC could make happen. VSAF is a good step. I think we all know though that there is a lot of room for serious improvement on our part. Not to impress the AF, but because it makes us better, just as any valid criticism and adjustment should.

When it boils down though, actions speak louder than words. When they see you in there playing your role as part of the overall team, and doing so on standards they respect (competence), then things change. It's all going to be incremental, we just need to press ever forward.

In the meantime, we'll get ABUs eventually, don't worry about it too much at this point. You can't speed it up, all you can do is spin your wheels on something currently out of reach. just know it's def coming, and has nothing to do with the AF relationship one way or the other.

[mikeylikey]

^ I am not so concerned with eventually getting ABU's, I am more concerned about boots right now.  MCSS Army, does not carry black boots, an the woman at MCSS AF says this time next year they will stop carrying them as well, possibly sooner. 

WE need to either allow tan, or that sage green AF boot immediately.  I can no longer say "Cadet you need to go to this website and buy black boots for $125.00", without feeling weird about it. 

Thew two DRMO's I have been to in the last 3 months no longer carry any boots, the National Guard (army of course) will most likely not be collecting black boots from members anymore, because they are all in tan anyway.  Maybe the AF Reserve and Guard will swap out black for sage in the near future, but I doubt it.  PLUS who really wants to wear someone Else's broken in boots anyway??

So, we all agree ABU's will come, lets get on the boot issue.

I say this because my black boots I picked up about 10 years ago are worn out.  I switched them for Tan boots for Iraq and only wear black for CAP.  I seriously do not want to purchase another set of black boots, which I may not wear that often to begin with.

[0]

While I agree there's more important stuff to discuss, I would say boots aren't it.  While yes the military is going to other colors due to the uniform changes.  However, we would have another source of black boots, Law Enforcement will still be using black boots.  I myself have gotten a pair that is law enforcement type and they work fine.  A good supplier is Galls, they've got great quality stuff.

[Eeyore]

^ Most of the online sources are not cheap enough for cadets though; at least, not for brand new cadets. That only leaves surplus stores, and I'm sure that they will be out of black boots soon enough.

[mikeylikey]

We have hashed the ABU issue so much already.

[jimmydeanno]

I can't wait for the ABU, I'll be the first in line!

[cnitas]

I can't wait for the ABU, I'll be the first in line!

Where is your silver whistle and chain? 

[DNall]

^ oh dear God!

Boots are a fair issue to talk about. NHQ doesn't tend to take action on things until there's no reasonable supply at all, not just that it's dwindling. It'd require action from AF, which I don't know would be a priority for them. I guess if you made the point strong enough about the supply chain they might actually collect the black one as they trade out & deliver those over to us, but that's stop-gap.

[lordmonar]

The Air Force already authorised the sage boots with BDUs and flight suits...for this exact reason.

It would not be too unreasonable to ask for authorisation to wear the green boots now...so we are not asking our cadets to buy two sets of $100 boots in the next couple of years.

[mikeylikey]

I can't wait for the ABU, I'll be the first in line!

Yikes......

[tjaxe]

I can't wait for the ABU, I'll be the first in line!

I'll be second!

[0]

The Air Force already authorised the sage boots with BDUs and flight suits...for this exact reason.

It would not be too unreasonable to ask for authorisation to wear the green boots now...so we are not asking our cadets to buy two sets of $100 boots in the next couple of years.

But did they authorize them for us?