Wearing the ABU's

[Stonewall]

I still think your proposal is the best one I've seen.

Thanks, Hawkeye.

Will give some more feedback on ABU.

It is very light in color, so it dirties a lot quicker, as do the tan and/or green boots.  That said, the ABUs are stain resistent and are [darn] good at reppeling coffee.  Yep, once again, I had a faulty coffee lid and dribbled coffee down my chin and onto my new ABUs.  Not once, but twice.  I wiped it off with a wet napkin and when it dried, no evidence of my little accident.

Boots, however, get those bad boys dirty and try to clean them and they just become darker in color.  There's probably a better way to clean them but I haven't figured it out yet.  Although a "battle uniform", people do get upset when your boots are dirty.

I'm going to the field, as in the woods field, next month and will let you know how they do.

I still don't like the layout of the ABUs as they're no different than BDUs, but as far as fitting, they're better.

[DNall]

2. BDU was inexpensive because it was produced for all the branches of the US military, including the Coast Guard. That's many, many times more units than the USAF needs by itself. The BDU was also cheaper to produce because it used less expensive fabrics and patterns (no internal pockets and no double cargo pockets).
3. The ABU price doesn't need to be in line with the BDU because it's already accounted for in the budget. All Airmen now receive a higher uniform allotment to purchase the ABU.

There's only so much discount you can get on items thru bulk production. At some point there is a unit cost based on materials, labor, etc that they can't/won't go below. We're pretty much there with BDUs.

The AF logic (which doesn't mean it's right) is that the AF is a large enough demand pool that eventually ABU prices will be roughly in line with BDU prices. Obviously that is not going to be the case during roll out, which is why the allotment is temporarily increased.

I tend to agree with that logic, though I can't say how long it'll take to get there. That'll be about the point CAP is authorized to wear it though. However, I don't think boots will ever get to that point, and that's very unfortunate.

[SARMedTech]

I still think your proposal is the best one I've seen.

Thanks, Hawkeye.

Will give some more feedback on ABU.

It is very light in color, so it dirties a lot quicker, as do the tan and/or green boots.  That said, the ABUs are stain resistent and are [darn] good at reppeling coffee.  Yep, once again, I had a faulty coffee lid and dribbled coffee down my chin and onto my new ABUs.  Not once, but twice.  I wiped it off with a wet napkin and when it dried, no evidence of my little accident.

Boots, however, get those bad boys dirty and try to clean them and they just become darker in color.  There's probably a better way to clean them but I haven't figured it out yet.  Although a "battle uniform", people do get upset when your boots are dirty.

I'm going to the field, as in the woods field, next month and will let you know how they do.

I still don't like the layout of the ABUs as they're no different than BDUs, but as far as fitting, they're better.

Hey KB-

Maybe you can explain something that has been puzzling me. Why did the AF design what is obviously meant to be yet another attempt at an urban camouflage, give it a pattern which was meant originally to blend in with SE Asian vegetation and then come up with a "foliage green" boot?

[JayT]

I still think your proposal is the best one I've seen.

Thanks, Hawkeye.

Will give some more feedback on ABU.

It is very light in color, so it dirties a lot quicker, as do the tan and/or green boots.  That said, the ABUs are stain resistent and are [darn] good at reppeling coffee.  Yep, once again, I had a faulty coffee lid and dribbled coffee down my chin and onto my new ABUs.  Not once, but twice.  I wiped it off with a wet napkin and when it dried, no evidence of my little accident.

Boots, however, get those bad boys dirty and try to clean them and they just become darker in color.  There's probably a better way to clean them but I haven't figured it out yet.  Although a "battle uniform", people do get upset when your boots are dirty.

I'm going to the field, as in the woods field, next month and will let you know how they do.

I still don't like the layout of the ABUs as they're no different than BDUs, but as far as fitting, they're better.

Hey KB-

Maybe you can explain something that has been puzzling me. Why did the AF design what is obviously meant to be yet another attempt at an urban camouflage, give it a pattern which was meant originally to blend in with SE Asian vegetation and then come up with a "foliage green" boot?

I don't really see much 'Urban Camouflage' in that pattern. I see an attempt to cover all enviroments with one uniformed shade of gray. Nore do I see a lot of the orginally tiger stripes in it.

[RiverAux]

2. BDU was inexpensive because it was produced for all the branches of the US military, including the Coast Guard.

When has the Coast Guard worn the BDU?  I wouldn't be surprised if maybe it has happened, but there wouldn't have been enough Coasties in them to help in terms of economy of scale.

[Stonewall]

2. BDU was inexpensive because it was produced for all the branches of the US military, including the Coast Guard.

When has the Coast Guard worn the BDU?  I wouldn't be surprised if maybe it has happened, but there wouldn't have been enough Coasties in them to help in terms of economy of scale.

Well, seeing that the USCG only makes up about 3% of the total US military, they wouldn't make a dent either way.  However, I've seen Coasties in BDUs around these parts, but not enough to talk about.

[SARMedTech]

2. BDU was inexpensive because it was produced for all the branches of the US military, including the Coast Guard.

When has the Coast Guard worn the BDU?  I wouldn't be surprised if maybe it has happened, but there wouldn't have been enough Coasties in them to help in terms of economy of scale.

Well, seeing that the USCG only makes up about 3% of the total US military, they wouldn't make a dent either way.  However, I've seen Coasties in BDUs around these parts, but not enough to talk about.

I don't know if they still are, but a little over a year ago, USCG Port Security Specialists (a reservist-only billet) were wearing woodland BDUs in some locations. Also, the new "untucked" ODU's are really nothing more than BBDU's which were intended to both bring the CG more in line with the appearance of the other services and maintain the distinctive blue utility uniform of the USCG.

[Stonewall]

Hey KB-

Maybe you can explain something that has been puzzling me. Why did the AF design what is obviously meant to be yet another attempt at an urban camouflage, give it a pattern which was meant originally to blend in with SE Asian vegetation and then come up with a "foliage green" boot?

I have no idea what the rationale was, but obviously they wanted the same color scheme as the Army but not the same pattern.  If you ask me, the pattern doesn't really matter too much, as long as they aren't straight lines.  But the color scheme, I'm still not convinced there is such thing as a camouflage for all enviornments.

IMHO, the Marine Corps has it right with 2 color schemes, desert and woodland.

[DNall]

^ second. And an expeditionary force with multiple different calibers of ammunition is an exorbitantly expensive logistics nightmare. So how is this a good idea? unfortunately they don't listen to logic on these things.

[RiverAux]

2. BDU was inexpensive because it was produced for all the branches of the US military, including the Coast Guard.

When has the Coast Guard worn the BDU?  I wouldn't be surprised if maybe it has happened, but there wouldn't have been enough Coasties in them to help in terms of economy of scale.

Well, seeing that the USCG only makes up about 3% of the total US military, they wouldn't make a dent either way.  However, I've seen Coasties in BDUs around these parts, but not enough to talk about.

I don't know if they still are, but a little over a year ago, USCG Port Security Specialists (a reservist-only billet) were wearing woodland BDUs in some locations. Also, the new "untucked" ODU's are really nothing more than BBDU's which were intended to both bring the CG more in line with the appearance of the other services and maintain the distinctive blue utility uniform of the USCG.

A few hundred reservists...

[Slim]

2. BDU was inexpensive because it was produced for all the branches of the US military, including the Coast Guard.

When has the Coast Guard worn the BDU?  I wouldn't be surprised if maybe it has happened, but there wouldn't have been enough Coasties in them to help in terms of economy of scale.

Well, seeing that the USCG only makes up about 3% of the total US military, they wouldn't make a dent either way.  However, I've seen Coasties in BDUs around these parts, but not enough to talk about.

I don't know if they still are, but a little over a year ago, USCG Port Security Specialists (a reservist-only billet) were wearing woodland BDUs in some locations. Also, the new "untucked" ODU's are really nothing more than BBDU's which were intended to both bring the CG more in line with the appearance of the other services and maintain the distinctive blue utility uniform of the USCG.

A few hundred reservists...

I also seem to recall seeing photos of a crew on a 110' WPB wearing DCUs on an MSO deployment in the Gulf.

[SARMedTech]

2. BDU was inexpensive because it was produced for all the branches of the US military, including the Coast Guard.

When has the Coast Guard worn the BDU?  I wouldn't be surprised if maybe it has happened, but there wouldn't have been enough Coasties in them to help in terms of economy of scale.

Well, seeing that the USCG only makes up about 3% of the total US military, they wouldn't make a dent either way.  However, I've seen Coasties in BDUs around these parts, but not enough to talk about.

I don't know if they still are, but a little over a year ago, USCG Port Security Specialists (a reservist-only billet) were wearing woodland BDUs in some locations. Also, the new "untucked" ODU's are really nothing more than BBDU's which were intended to both bring the CG more in line with the appearance of the other services and maintain the distinctive blue utility uniform of the USCG.

A few hundred reservists...

I also seem to recall seeing photos of a crew on a 110' WPB wearing DCUs on an MSO deployment in the Gulf.

And  a recent google search I did turned up a photo of Adm. Thad Allen (Commandant of the USCG) wearing tri-colors.

[Earhart1971]

Civil Air Patrol should not have CAMO BDUs of any type.

We do not need to be invisible to Aircraft.

Blue BDUs make us look like a Cleaner in an office Building, or a SWAT Team member.

My vote is for Solid Tan or Kahki, BDUs that are already available in good supply by any supplier of BDUs.

Opens up the Swede Jungle or Desert Boots.

Also, Black Boots could be worn.

Subdued Name Tapes and badges could be used, if nothing else looks nicer than the blue tapes.

Then it becomes an exclusive CAP Uniform, but recognizable as a Uniform of a Service. Not a Blue Collar service worker or Swat Team member.

Tan is more visible in most areas that are Green, except parts of Nevada and Desert SW.

But 90% of the country is GREEN.

For those in the Desert, wear a orange vest for Ground Team Search.

Spacing - MIKE

[lordmonar]

We should not wear camo because it makes it hard to see....so we should not wear green, tan, khaki, or any other "blending" color.

We should not wear anything that makes us look like SWAT teams....so out go ODs, Woodland, DCUs, Black, Blue, Tan, Khaki and a whole lot of other colors.

We should not look like an office building cleaner....out goes orange, yellow, white, blue, tan, khaki, blue jeans, polo shirts, hospital scrubs, and some really awful general purpose "cleaning lady smocks" I've seen around!

I don't know...I'm kind of stupid....but I can't think of any color that has not already been claimed by someone you don't think we should look like. 

I want to look like the service we support....so let's go with ABU's and orange vest for aircraft visibility.

[DC]

Yeah, if you want to play the high visibility thing then lets go with totally blaze orange. But then one runs the risk of looking like a prison inmate.

[Earhart1971]

We should not wear camo because it makes it hard to see....so we should not wear green, tan, khaki, or any other "blending" color.

We should not wear anything that makes us look like SWAT teams....so out go ODs, Woodland, DCUs, Black, Blue, Tan, Khaki and a whole lot of other colors.

We should not look like an office building cleaner....out goes orange, yellow, white, blue, tan, khaki, blue jeans, polo shirts, hospital scrubs, and some really awful general purpose "cleaning lady smocks" I've seen around!

I don't know...I'm kind of stupid....but I can't think of any color that has not already been claimed by someone you don't think we should look like. 

I want to look like the service we support....so let's go with ABU's and orange vest for aircraft visibility.

For others: Lordmonar and I  never agree on anything.

Lordmonar, If you had a choice between Tan and Green, which would be more visible with a Green landscape, to an aircraft crew?

ABUs make no sense for CAP, let's quit with the Air Force goofy uniform changes, the Air Force lost me on the Burgandy, Gray Epaulets, and the Airline Pilot Uniform.

I don't like the Air Forces Fashion choices of late, and CAP needs help in that area too.

I am interested in what others think, TAN or Blue or ABU, which uniform?

Lets have a CAP Uniform and quit following the bad choices of another service.

By the way, I like the Air Force and I am an Air Force Vet.

Someday CAP Cadets will OWN the Air Force!

Spacing - MIKE

[RickFranz]

I have the blue now and I kinda let it.  It is different than anything around here and the only Law Enforcement that wears them in KS is the DOT.  There is more of us then them (DOT) so it might look like they are coping us.

Really I do think it would look better for all the Seniors to be in a corp. uniform.  Most of the sizes of AF uniforms we get are for the young and very, very trim.  I think if we all went to the corp. uniform that might get some of the folks that don't look quite right in a AF uniform, out of that uniform. 

This is just my opinion.

[lordmonar]

Earhart,

The point is....no one person's opinion counts here.

For what ever reason you can come up with "this uniform is the best" someone will come up with an equally valid reason why we should not wear such uniforms.

But...tacky fashion sense or not....the USAF is wearing ABUs.  CAP can do nothing and keep what we got, change to match the USAF or go a third direction.

Let's vote!

[SarDragon]

Yeah, if you want to play the high visibility thing then lets go with totally blaze orange. But then one runs the risk of looking like a prison inmate.

Or in CA, a CalTrans worker.

[DNall]

Civil Air Patrol should not have CAMO BDUs of any type.

We do not need to be invisible to Aircraft...............

CAP is not an independent agency. It does not & cannot exist in any form separate from the Air Force at any time now or in the future, period.

The AF wants CAP in AF-style uniforms for several reasons, the most practical of these being economies of scale in the supply chain (and potential surplus) keep down costs, especially but exclusively for cadets. That's not nearly the only reason, but it is the most stated & practical one.

This is the policy of the land from both CAP & AF, and it will not change:

I want to look like the service we support....so let's go with ABU's and orange vest for aircraft visibility.

This thread is not talking about alternate uniforms or we should be in this or that. The premise stipulates that we will be in ABUs at some point soon but unknown. It's not concerned so much with when that date might be, as much as the nature of the uniform we're getting, not the CAP aspects, just the uniform underneath. Anything outside those bounds is covered extensively in many other threads (ie beating dead horse). 

And we don't freakin vote in the military, nor paramilitary organizations.