Show Us Your Rack!

[davedove]

Has anybody noticed that these rackbuilder programs put the Crossfield award before the Yeager in precedence ... when according to regs it's the other way around?

Jack

Actually, the most recent reg (as far as I know), the 39-1, dated 23 march 2005, places the Crossfield at higher precedence than the Yeager.  That makes sense, since it's more difficult to get the Crossfield, not to mention that you have to have the Yeager before you can get the master level in AE, the requirement for the Crossfield.

[ColonelJack]

I stand corrected.

grumble ... grumble ... now I gotta re-do my rack ... grumble ... grumble ... and how do I fix my Ultra-Thin rack now ... grumble ... complain ... grumble

Jack

[mdickinson]

That is very impressive. I'm sure there is an interesting story behind the Silver Medal of Valor. Perhaps we can hear that in another thread...

One question though. I am not aware of any provision in CAPR 39-3 that allows the addition of triangular clasps to the Disaster Relief Ribbon or the Disaster Relief Ribbon With "V" Device.

I can imagine how clasps might be permitted on the one with the "V" device - for serving in multiple presidentially-declared disasters - but I haven't seen anything in writing allowing clasps to be worn. Could anyone give me a pointer to a reg? Or is the poster wearing them in error?

As for the regular DR ribbon - Seems to me this ribbon is an achievement, sort of like earning your Loening; you take a bunch of courses and serve at several DR missions or DREVALs. So how could it possibly have clasps added to it?
(Please don't tell me you've decided on your own that every additional 5 DREVALs merits a clasp? )

[mdickinson]

Has anybody noticed that these rackbuilder programs put the Crossfield award before the Yeager in precedence ... when according to regs it's the other way around?

Actually, the most recent reg (as far as I know), the 39-1, dated 23 march 2005, places the Crossfield at higher precedence than the Yeager.  That makes sense, since it's more difficult to get the Crossfield, not to mention that you have to have the Yeager before you can get the master level in AE, the requirement for the Crossfield.

Good call by davedove. The Crossfield takes at least a year to earn, whereas the Yeager can be accomplished in an hour or two.

The precedence was published in error (in both CAPM 39-1 and CAPR 39-3) when the Crossfield first came out in 1998. The error was quickly corrected by a policy letter from the Aerospace Education department, but was not corrected in M39-1 until the current version came out on 23 Mar 05.

Amazingly, it's now 9 years after the mistake was found, and since CAPR 39-3 has not been reissued, it still lists the old (incorrect) order of precedence. Jack, that ought to make you feel better... when you put your Yeager ribbon before your Crossfield ribbon, you were following a valid reg! 

[Briski]

Why am I getting a feeling that this thread is more about penis size?

Dangit! I hate those, I always lose.

I don't feel like taking the time to figure out how to post my ribbons, but now that I can wear "all, some or none" again, here's what I'll be wearing:

-highest cadet achievement ribbon (with silver star)
-International Air Cadet Exchange
-Cadet Advisory Council (with silver star)
-National Cadet Special Activities (with two bronze clasps)
-Encampment (with one silver clasp)

yay! for only wearing five ribbons again for the first time since I was a C/SSgt. 

[MIKE]

• Unit Ciatation Award - NER 9/11
• Leadership Ribbon
• Membership Ribbon
• General Chuck Yeager Award
• Earhart Award
• Red Service w/ bronze clasp - Should rate second clasp at the end of the summer
• Search & Rescue "Find"
• Search & Rescue
• Cadet Advisory Council w/ bronze star - Not actually on my rack yet
• Encampment w/ bronze clasp

No Coast Guard Auxilary awards yet.  My trops are pretty bare, and earning some means just one more thing I have to align 1/4 of an inch above the pocket.

[Flying Pig]

Something Like this.....

[Flying Pig]

OK..I dont know what I'm doing...I tried to post the "Marine Corps Medals" attachement....who knows.

[Al Sayre]

Since Photo bucket is blocked at work, and my dial up moves at a snails pace, I attached miine as a .pdf

[ltcmark]

One question though. I am not aware of any provision in CAPR 39-3 that allows the addition of triangular clasps to the Disaster Relief Ribbon or the Disaster Relief Ribbon With "V" Device.

I can imagine how clasps might be permitted on the one with the "V" device - for serving in multiple presidentially-declared disasters - but I haven't seen anything in writing allowing clasps to be worn. Could anyone give me a pointer to a reg? Or is the poster wearing them in error?

As for the regular DR ribbon - Seems to me this ribbon is an achievement, sort of like earning your Loening; you take a bunch of courses and serve at several DR missions or DREVALs. So how could it possibly have clasps added to it?
(Please don't tell me you've decided on your own that every additional 5 DREVALs merits a clasp? )

Currently I do not wear the second CD ribbon.  I was under the same impression that you were on the wear.  I found out that I was approved for the SMV and I decided I need to update my rack.  I was on the NHQ web site (http://level2.cap.gov/index.cfm?nodeID=5172) and found a link to a rack builder program (http://dafab.no-ip.info/CAPCode/CAPRibbons.htm).  It was there that I figured out that it is possible to have clasp on the DR ribbon.  The reg is not cut and dry but if you look at it real close this is what it says:

CAPR 39-3, Section A, Paragraph 6b says:

Repetitive Awards:  Subsequent awards of the same decoration or ribbon are denoted by the CAP bronze clasp, worn on the ribbon of the original award. A CAP silver clasp is equivalent to, and is worn in the place of, five bronze claps.

also the criteria for the award is:

CAPR 39-3, Section F, Paragraph f:

f. Disaster Relief Ribbon. Awarded for participation in five actual/evaluated disaster relief missions and completion of two of the following requirements:

You can look up the requirements.

After seeing the question on the clasp on the rack builder program I saw that it was possible to have clasp on the DR ribbon, the criteria for multiple awards is the participation in the 5 actual/evaluated DR missions.  I have 30 over the years.

If you want to dispute it, then NHQ needs to change the rack builder program they endorse by providing the link.

There you have it.

Tags - MIKE

[Hawk200]

... and how do I fix my Ultra-Thin rack now ...

The only way I can think of is to pick up the phone, dial some numbers, and when they answer, say, "Hello, Ultrathin ribbons? I'd like to make an order, please."

Other than that, there's really no easy way.

[TDHenderson]

Small but growing!

[Capt M. Sherrod]

After seeing the question on the clasp on the rack builder program I saw that it was possible to have clasp on the DR ribbon, the criteria for multiple awards is the participation in the 5 actual/evaluated DR missions.  I have 30 over the years.

If you want to dispute it, then NHQ needs to change the rack builder program they endorse by providing the link.

I don't disagree with you about changing the builder, sir.  That same builder will allow you to wear multiple Davis Ribbons with stars on all of them, when I know for a fact that you are only authorized a maximum of 3 silver stars for 3 master ratings.  I find that the McChord builder is lot more accurate / reliable.  Just my .02.

[acarlson]

Why am I getting a feeling that this thread is more about penis size?

hmmm  maybe cause that's all you're thinking about perhaps?

[mdickinson]

[picture of rack containing a DR ribbon with a triangular clasp on it]

I am not aware of any provision in CAPR 39-3 that allows the addition of triangular clasps to the Disaster Relief Ribbon

Seems to me this ribbon is an achievement, sort of like earning your Loening; you take a bunch of courses and serve at several DR missions or DREVALs. So how could it possibly have clasps added to it?
(Please don't tell me you've decided on your own that every additional 5 DR missions merits a clasp? )

Currently I do not wear the second CD ribbon.  I was under the same impression that you were on the wear.  I found out that I was approved for the SMV and I decided I need to update my rack.  I was on the NHQ web site (http://level2.cap.gov/index.cfm?nodeID=5172) and found a link to a rack builder program (http://dafab.no-ip.info/CAPCode/CAPRibbons.htm).  It was there that I figured out that it is possible to have clasp on the DR ribbon.  The reg is not cut and dry but if you look at it real close this is what it says:

CAPR 39-3, Section A, Paragraph 6b says:
Repetitive Awards:  Subsequent awards of the same decoration or ribbon are denoted by the CAP bronze clasp, worn on the ribbon of the original award. A CAP silver clasp is equivalent to, and is worn in the place of, five bronze claps.

and CAPR 39-3 paragraph 21.f says the criteria for the award is:
[requirements moved to reply, below]

After seeing [...] on the rack builder program [...] that it was possible to have clasps on the DR ribbon, the criteria for multiple awards is the participation in the 5 actual/evaluated DR missions.  I have 30 over the years.

If you want to dispute it, then NHQ needs to change the rack builder program they endorse by providing the link.

First of all, congrats on the SMV, the Exceptional Service, and others. You've clearly given a great deal to the organization and I salute you for it!

1. Regarding your last point, which I would rephrase as "the CAP Knowledgebase gave a link to a ribbon checker, therefore any combination of ribbons and clasps that is possible on that ribbon checker must be valid":

Given what I know of the level of scrutiny given by national HQ to the Knowledgebase answers, I feel confident in saying that when they provided a link to a ribbon checker, they were trying to be helpful - they didn't mean to say "we endorse this ribbon checker; we have stress-tested it in every way, and we hereby authorize the wear of any ribbon/clasp combination that this ribbon checker will allow you to make appear on your screen."


2. Regarding the paragraph in CAPR 39-3 that says "Repetitive Awards: Subsequent awards of the same decoration or ribbon are denoted by the CAP bronze clasp":

I believe the first two words of that paragraph mean the paragraph is referring only to awards that can be earned more than once. I don't think this paragraph means that any award can be earned more than once.

If that were the case, I could retake the "Level I CAP Orientation Course" and then add a bronze clasp to my Membership Ribbon, since "I've completed the requirements twice!"


3. Regarding your opinion that the Disaster Relief Ribbon can be earned multiple times:

Unlike many of the the other ribbon requirement descriptions in 39-3, this one one doesn't say "add clasps for multiple awards." It gives the requirement to earn the award as
"Participation in five actual/evaluated disaster relief missions and completion of two of the following requirements:
(1) All of the following Red Cross courses: Introduction to Disaster Services, Disaster Damage Assessment, and Shelter Management
(2) The Red Cross course "Damage Assessment Supervision in Disaster"
(3) The Red Cross course "CPR and Advanced First Aid"
(4) Radiological Monitoring for Instructors
(5) Radiological Defense Officer Course
(6) Airborne Radiological Monitoring Course
(7) Participation in other equivalent disaster relief activities totaling at least 40 hours of activity certified by disaster relief agency. This could include any training similar to the above courses and/or actual mission activity (in addition to the five required missions).

So after seeing that a ribbon checker lets you add clasps, you figured you can add a clasp each time you participate in another five DR missions or DREVALs. Do you also have to accomplish another two of the seven requirements each time you add a clasp?

I can't say for sure which of us is right. It's definitely not clear from 39-3...
Perhaps someone should put the question to the Knowledgebase and see.


4. While we're on the subject, here are two more DR Ribbon questions that are not answered by any of the regulations:

a. Can a member wear both the DR ribbon and the DR ribbon With "V" device? (I think they can, but that's based only an answer I saw in the Knowledgebase a year ago - which is no longer there - not on anything I read in a regulation.)

b. If a member wears both the DR ribbon and the DR ribbon With "V" Device, which comes first? Neither 39-3 or 39-1 mention the V-device version in their ribbon precedence charts. The only clue I have is that in 39-3 paragraph 21, the ribbons seem to be listed in precedence order, and the regular DR ribbon is mentioned first. But that's just guessing. Anyone have an answer?

Inquiring minds want to know! (especially before they lay down $$$ for an ultra-thin rack! )

[jimmydeanno]

... and how do I fix my Ultra-Thin rack now ...

Rebuild, Repair or New?
We at UltraThin realize that new ribbons and medals can be an expensive proposition with the number of decorations that individuals receive and the frequency of new awards. Even with our reasonable prices these changes can amount to a fair amount of cash outlay over the period of a few months.

Because of this we offer, where possible, the ability to modify or repair current ribbon and medal sets. Obviously there are times when this is just impossible due to the age or condition of the set.

http://www.ultrathin.com/rebuild.htm

[Eagle400]

Here's my cadet 'fruit salad':

CAP Solo Wings

Commander's Commendation Medal (x2)
Unit Citation Medal
Amelia Earhart Award Medal
Gen Billy Mitchell Award Medal with Silver Star
Dr Robert Goddard Achievement Ribbon
Gen Jimmy Doolittle Achievement Ribbon
Charles Lindbergh Achievement Ribbon
Capt Eddie Rickenbacker Achievement Ribbon
Wright Brothers Achievement Ribbon
Gen Hap Arnold Achievement Ribbon
Gen John F. Curry Achievement Ribbon
Air Force Association Outstanding CAP Squadron Cadet of the Year Award
Red Service Medal (x2)
Search Find Medal
Cadet Community Service Ribbon
CAC Ribbon with Bronze Star
National Cadet Special Activity Ribbon
Encampment Medal (x4)
Recruiter Ribbon (x2)

I would post a picture of the rack from http://medals.lava.pl/us/uschk.htm, but I don't know how.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks.   

[Major Carrales]

generate your "Rack," push the "print screen" option, save it to a file and send it to me.

I'll put it in my photobucket and then here for the world to see, and you to have.

jecarrales@yahoo.com

[bricktonfire]

C/A1C Cody Benac



 





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Above:
CAP Ground Team Badge


Civil Air Patrol Unit Citation Award


Civil Air Patrol Gen. Hap Arnold Achievement Award

Civil Air Patrol Gen. John F Curry Achievement Award

Civil Air Patrol Encampment Ribbon

[ctrossen]

Problem is, common sense gets in the way of regulation interpretation.

Other than the reg-nebulous entry in the Knowledgebase that I also remember seeing, I think the answer lies in the reg - by the simple fact that para 21.f. talks about the Disaster Relief Ribbon, while 21.g. refers talks about the Disaster Relief Ribbon with "V" Device, and every other lettered paragraph talks about a different service ribbon. Therefore it logically follows that they are two different ribbons.

As for precedence, I'd agree that the layout of CAPR 39-3 indicates to me that the DR w/"V" is a lower precedence than the stock DR ribbon, though the Knowledgebase article says that it's just the exact opposite. Common sense tellse me that the DR w/"V" should be a higher precedence award.

Take FWIW

4. While we're on the subject, here are two more DR Ribbon questions that are not answered by any of the regulations:

a. Can a member wear both the DR ribbon and the DR ribbon With "V" device? (I think they can, but that's based only an answer I saw in the Knowledgebase a year ago - which is no longer there - not on anything I read in a regulation.)

b. If a member wears both the DR ribbon and the DR ribbon With "V" Device, which comes first? Neither 39-3 or 39-1 mention the V-device version in their ribbon precedence charts. The only clue I have is that in 39-3 paragraph 21, the ribbons seem to be listed in precedence order, and the regular DR ribbon is mentioned first. But that's just guessing. Anyone have an answer?

Inquiring minds want to know! (especially before they lay down $$$ for an ultra-thin rack! )