Senior ABUs at the Winter Command Council

[lordmonar]

That's a fair point, Sir. I also find it amazing how a certain other core value often goes out the window when it comes to wearing the USAF-style uniforms.

And when confronted with a core value violation, one should challenge that officer and/or report him/her to the appropriate authority.

So yes....there are a lot of integrity issues in CAP.  Lots of them.   Let's work the problem and not add more to the mix.

[Holding Pattern]

Let's work the problem and not add more to the mix.

Hear, Hear!

[Майор Хаткевич]

Two wrongs certainly don't make a right. But that said, as a member of the "Two Plus Benjamins" club,  I've given up on "calling people on it", as their response is always "respect!(tm)", whereas "integrity" seems to fall by the wayside. Those who wear it and shouldn't, know it. I'll leave it up to them to deal with it the next time they talk to my cadets about Integrity.

[vorteks]

And when confronted with a core value violation, one should challenge that officer and/or report him/her to the appropriate authority.

No disagreement there. And it might work if 39-1 (1.2.2) was enforced anywhere in the organization, which we all know it isn't by and large.

[vorteks]

Two wrongs certainly don't make a right. But that said, as a member of the "Two Plus Benjamins" club,  I've given up on "calling people on it", as their response is always "respect!(tm)", whereas "integrity" seems to fall by the wayside. Those who wear it and shouldn't, know it. I'll leave it up to them to deal with it the next time they talk to my cadets about Integrity.

Exactly what happened here.

[Ned]

Two wrongs certainly don't make a right. But that said, as a member of the "Two Plus Benjamins" club,  I've given up on "calling people on it", as their response is always "respect!(tm)", whereas "integrity" seems to fall by the wayside. Those who wear it and shouldn't, know it. I'll leave it up to them to deal with it the next time they talk to my cadets about Integrity.

All of us have a responsibility to help each other wear the uniform properly.  Please reconsider your decision not to help other members by respectfully pointing out uniform discrepancies.  I know I appreciate it when others point out my errors to me.

"Duty is almost never the easiest path."


Thank you for all you do for CAP.

Ned Lee

[lordmonar]

And when confronted with a core value violation, one should challenge that officer and/or report him/her to the appropriate authority.

No disagreement there. And it might work if 39-1 (1.2.2) was enforced anywhere in the organization, which we all know it isn't by and large.

Highly disagree.   By and large 39-1 is followed and enforced.   And where it is not...enforcement starts with the individual members.

[vorteks]

And when confronted with a core value violation, one should challenge that officer and/or report him/her to the appropriate authority.

No disagreement there. And it might work if 39-1 (1.2.2) was enforced anywhere in the organization, which we all know it isn't by and large.

Highly disagree.   By and large 39-1 is followed and enforced.   And where it is not...enforcement starts with the individual members.

I referred specifically to section 1.2.2. Let's be honest here.

[lordmonar]

And when confronted with a core value violation, one should challenge that officer and/or report him/her to the appropriate authority.

No disagreement there. And it might work if 39-1 (1.2.2) was enforced anywhere in the organization, which we all know it isn't by and large.

Highly disagree.   By and large 39-1 is followed and enforced.   And where it is not...enforcement starts with the individual members.

I am honest......1.2.2. is by and large followed.  And where it is not....enforcement starts with members confronting the miscreant and reporting it to the appropriate authority.


I referred specifically to section 1.2.2. Let's be honest here.

I am being honest.   Most people do follow 39-1 and para 1.2.2. specifically.   In those case where they do not.  It is up to us to challenge those members and report them to higher authority.

[RiverAux]

Judging by those pictures, the weight standards will be eliminated for the USAF-style uniforms as well.  :clap:

You can be very overweight and still be withing CAP standards.  Consult the chart, but basically you're probably going to be ok unless your BMI is in the "obese" category. 

[vorteks]

I am being honest.   Most people do follow 39-1 and para 1.2.2. specifically.   In those case where they do not.  It is up to us to challenge those members and report them to higher authority.

I'm sure you are. Personal observation and ubiquitous photographic evidence from all over the dang place gives me a different impression.

[lordmonar]

I am being honest.   Most people do follow 39-1 and para 1.2.2. specifically.   In those case where they do not.  It is up to us to challenge those members and report them to higher authority.

I'm sure you are. Personal observation and ubiquitous photographic evidence from all over the dang place gives me a different impression.

Well....since I don't know who you are....and what your frame of reference is....I can't really gain say you.

I will say that over the last five years I've been to four National Conventions, several NVWG Conferences, one PCR conference.   I've visited other units outside the region and wing as I have traveled with my job.   And my general impression is that by and large.....we follow the regs.   Sure the internet may give a different impression....but you rarely see a thread or face book post titled "Look at all these guys wearing their uniforms properly".   It is just not catchy.

YMMV.

[JeffDG]

I am being honest.   Most people do follow 39-1 and para 1.2.2. specifically.   In those case where they do not.  It is up to us to challenge those members and report them to higher authority.

I'm sure you are. Personal observation and ubiquitous photographic evidence from all over the dang place gives me a different impression.

That's a rather sweeping accusation that you are leveling against a large number of people.

If you have specific allegations make them.   If not, making such blanket accusations is highly disrespectful.

[Chappie]

Let's work the problem and not add more to the mix.

Hear, Hear!

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

[Lem]

Judging by those pictures, the weight standards will be eliminated for the USAF-style uniforms as well.  :clap:

You can be very overweight and still be withing CAP standards.  Consult the chart, but basically you're probably going to be ok unless your BMI is in the "obese" category.

RiverAux  I understand where you are coming from with that statement. Just for clarification  I meet the height and weight standards  to wear the USAF style uniform, BDU's and so forth.  but the last time I was in the doctors office I looked at the BMI index chart and it said I was obese for my height and weight.  I am 5ft 9in, the last time I weighed I came in just over 185lbs. Even the doctors are looking at the BMI as a misleading chart as you can have a person that is very physically fit, exercises, eats all the right stuff and still not meet the BMI chart  standards.
But I understand we must have a cut off point or we all as a whole would look silly in an USAF uniform with the button holes stretched to the max. And no one would consider taking us serious for any program much less the ES program.

[RiverAux]

said I was obese for my height and weight.  I am 5ft 9in, the last time I weighed I came in just over 185lb

Actually, that puts you in the "overweight" category.  Not the obese category.  You would have to weigh over 210 to be considered "obese". 

To be clear, I was not implying that the CAP height/weight chart was based on BMI categories, however there is an astonishingly close relationship between the two that I assume was pretty accidental. 

Actually works out that way for you -- at 5'9 your CAP weight limit is 208 -- just under the "obese" level of 210.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Two wrongs certainly don't make a right. But that said, as a member of the "Two Plus Benjamins" club,  I've given up on "calling people on it", as their response is always "respect!(tm)", whereas "integrity" seems to fall by the wayside. Those who wear it and shouldn't, know it. I'll leave it up to them to deal with it the next time they talk to my cadets about Integrity.

All of us have a responsibility to help each other wear the uniform properly.  Please reconsider your decision not to help other members by respectfully pointing out uniform discrepancies.  I know I appreciate it when others point out my errors to me.

"Duty is almost never the easiest path."


Thank you for all you do for CAP.

Ned Lee

Unfortunately I'm at the end of my rope on the issue. When a person whose uniform could serve me as an impromptu shelter for the night claims to weigh 20 pounds less than me, at the same height...there's just no "gentle" way to talk about it.

[lordmonar]

If he is under you in the chain of command....you introduce him to the 2b.
If he is outside your chain of command you report him to his commander and be done with it.

[Shieldel]

If he is under you in the chain of command....you introduce him to the 2b.
If he is outside your chain of command you report him to his commander and be done with it.

Something I learned the hard way Sergeant.

[Checotah]

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