Questions about the blue polo shirt uniform combo and senior BDU's

[xray328]

Forgive me in advance, I'm sure it's all in the regs, just can't find it...

If Senior Members wear the blue polo/grey slacks combination are we still saluting other Seniors? Are cadets still saluting us?

Are combat boots (spit shined Corcoran's) authorized to wear with this combo? And if it's authorized is anyone actually wearing them?

We're going to a cadet activity this weekend where BDU's are the uniform of the day, I'm good to go except for the "CAP" insignia, still waiting on Vanguard.  Am I gonna get thumped for not having it on?

Thanks.

[Tim Day]

Xray,

CAPP 151, "Respect on Display" has a very clear explanation of when to salute as well as other helpful information about CAP customs and courtesies.

In the specific case you mention, no - when you are wearing civilian clothes or corporate uniform you do not salute. However, junior personnel in AF-style uniform should salute senior personnel in any uniform or civilian clothes on recognition. The senior will return the salute if in AF-style uniform or otherwise politely acknowledge the salute ("Thank you, Cadet Captain Smith" works great) if not in AF-style uniform.

And no, you should not wear an incomplete uniform (BDU without insignia).

[xray328]

CAPP 151,  thank you sir.

[winterg]

To answer your question about the combat boots with Polo combination.

Yes.  CAPM 39-1 section 5.2.2.6

[xray328]

Perfect, thank you sir.

[TheSkyHornet]

Xray,

CAPP 151, "Respect on Display" has a very clear explanation of when to salute as well as other helpful information about CAP customs and courtesies.

In the specific case you mention, no - when you are wearing civilian clothes or corporate uniform you do not salute. However, junior personnel in AF-style uniform should salute senior personnel in any uniform or civilian clothes on recognition. The senior will return the salute if in AF-style uniform or otherwise politely acknowledge the salute ("Thank you, Cadet Captain Smith" works great) if not in AF-style uniform.

And no, you should not wear an incomplete uniform (BDU without insignia).

I disagree.

If a junior individual wearing an Air Force-style uniform recognizes a superior officer wearing civilian attire, he/she would not render a salute to that superior.

The salute is rendered to the grade/uniform, not the person wearing it.

[vorteks]

In the specific case you mention, no - when you are wearing civilian clothes or corporate uniform you do not salute. However, junior personnel in AF-style uniform should salute senior personnel in any uniform or civilian clothes on recognition. The senior will return the salute if in AF-style uniform or otherwise politely acknowledge the salute ("Thank you, Cadet Captain Smith" works great) if not in AF-style uniform.

CAPP 151 says on page 3:

"For senior members, the rendering of customs and courtesies is expected when wearing a military-style uniform (all uniform combinations except the polo shirt and blazer). "

The aviator shirt combo is a corporate-style uniform, and it's not excluded from rendering C&C.

The pamphlet follows up the above guideline with: 

"Regardless, CAP encourages all members to take part in something larger than themselves by participating in these rich traditions."

As a new member I was tripped up a few times trying to figure out when and when not to salute or return a salute when wearing the corporate uniforms. Now I always return a salute, regardless of the style of the uniform I'm wearing, and I have no problem initiating a salute when I'm wearing the aviator shirt combo.

[PA Guy]

Xray,

CAPP 151, "Respect on Display" has a very clear explanation of when to salute as well as other helpful information about CAP customs and courtesies.

In the specific case you mention, no - when you are wearing civilian clothes or corporate uniform you do not salute. However, junior personnel in AF-style uniform should salute senior personnel in any uniform or civilian clothes on recognition. The senior will return the salute if in AF-style uniform or otherwise politely acknowledge the salute ("Thank you, Cadet Captain Smith" works great) if not in AF-style uniform.

And no, you should not wear an incomplete uniform (BDU without insignia).

Are you saying that when wearing an aviator shirt or BBDU you should not render/return a salute?

From CAPP 151:

Senior Members. For senior members, the rendering of customs and
courtesies is expected when wearing a military-style uniform (all
uniform combinations except the polo shirt and blazer).

This seems to restrict saluting only when wearing a polo or blazer?

[THRAWN]

Xray,

CAPP 151, "Respect on Display" has a very clear explanation of when to salute as well as other helpful information about CAP customs and courtesies.

In the specific case you mention, no - when you are wearing civilian clothes or corporate uniform you do not salute. However, junior personnel in AF-style uniform should salute senior personnel in any uniform or civilian clothes on recognition. The senior will return the salute if in AF-style uniform or otherwise politely acknowledge the salute ("Thank you, Cadet Captain Smith" works great) if not in AF-style uniform.

And no, you should not wear an incomplete uniform (BDU without insignia).

I disagree.

If a junior individual wearing an Air Force-style uniform recognizes a superior officer wearing civilian attire, he/she would not render a salute to that superior.

The salute is rendered to the grade/uniform, not the person wearing it.

It's not required, but it doesn't hurt to salute your wing king when he is wandering around your squadron area in Bermuda shorts and a Magnum PI shirt. You salute the position, not just the grade...

[xray328]

If I'm saluted I'm returning the salute regardless of uniform. It's just the respectful thing to do, especially as new member working with cadets.

[TheSkyHornet]

Xray,

CAPP 151, "Respect on Display" has a very clear explanation of when to salute as well as other helpful information about CAP customs and courtesies.

In the specific case you mention, no - when you are wearing civilian clothes or corporate uniform you do not salute. However, junior personnel in AF-style uniform should salute senior personnel in any uniform or civilian clothes on recognition. The senior will return the salute if in AF-style uniform or otherwise politely acknowledge the salute ("Thank you, Cadet Captain Smith" works great) if not in AF-style uniform.

And no, you should not wear an incomplete uniform (BDU without insignia).

I disagree.

If a junior individual wearing an Air Force-style uniform recognizes a superior officer wearing civilian attire, he/she would not render a salute to that superior.

The salute is rendered to the grade/uniform, not the person wearing it.

It's not required, but it doesn't hurt to salute your wing king when he is wandering around your squadron area in Bermuda shorts and a Magnum PI shirt. You salute the position, not just the grade...

Very true; however, as it is not a requirement, it's not something I would go out of my way to promote or enforce.

If I'm wearing civilian clothing and a cadet doesn't salute me, that's totally fine. If I'm in uniform and a cadet doesn't salute me, depending on the circumstances of the situation (such as walking past me in a parking lot), I'm generally not going to do anything about it. Let's not nit-pick here. That's where you get poor leadership. If we're in training country and a salute was most definitely warranted based on the environment and operating conditions, I wouldn't say anything in group. I would address it off-to-the-side later at an appropriate opportunity, not in front of the rest of the squadron/flight. And it's generally along the lines of "Hey, just make sure you salute officers when you're supposed to, alright? If you don't know, salute, and ask later on if it's appropriate." I'd rather they attempt and ask than to not do anything, but I'm not going to chastise anyone for a quick mistake.

When I was in Army ROTC in college, I walked right past a Lieutenant Colonel and didn't salute after direct eye contact. He didn't say anything. Later that day, he told the entire battalion that if they walk past a senior officer, they are supposed to salute (and explained the whole ordeal on when to drop a salute). I went up to him after training that day and apologized for it and said I know the speech was addressing that incident with me. He said it wasn't a big deal and not to worry about it, "sh---stuff---happens." Easy peasy.

[Eaker Guy]

If I'm saluted I'm returning the salute regardless of uniform. It's just the respectful thing to do, especially as new member working with cadets.

+10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

[Eaker Guy]

As a cadet, it is my general practice to salute all senior members, regardless of uniform. When in polo/blazer, it appears that it is their choice to salute back. It is not expected, but I believe it should be encouraged.

[Storm Chaser]

As a cadet, it is my general practice to salute all senior members, regardless of uniform. When in polo/blazer, it appears that it is their choice to salute back. It is not expected, but I believe it should be encouraged.

Just remember, not every senior member is an officer. Cadets only need to salute officers in the grades of FO or higher. A verbal greeting should be rendered to all other senior members without grade or NCOs.

[THRAWN]

As a cadet, it is my general practice to salute all senior members, regardless of uniform. When in polo/blazer, it appears that it is their choice to salute back. It is not expected, but I believe it should be encouraged.

Just remember, not every senior member is an officer. Cadets only need to salute officers in the grades of FO or higher. A verbal greeting should be rendered to all other senior members without grade or NCOs.

Sure about that? Take a look in CAPP 151 for the answer.

[Eaker Guy]

As a cadet, it is my general practice to salute all senior members, regardless of uniform. When in polo/blazer, it appears that it is their choice to salute back. It is not expected, but I believe it should be encouraged.

Just remember, not every senior member is an officer. Cadets only need to salute officers in the grades of FO or higher. A verbal greeting should be rendered to all other senior members without grade or NCOs.

As I said, I believe it should be encouraged.

--C/Maj Kiss

[Tim Day]

Xray,

CAPP 151, "Respect on Display" has a very clear explanation of when to salute as well as other helpful information about CAP customs and courtesies.

In the specific case you mention, no - when you are wearing civilian clothes or corporate uniform you do not salute. However, junior personnel in AF-style uniform should salute senior personnel in any uniform or civilian clothes on recognition. The senior will return the salute if in AF-style uniform or otherwise politely acknowledge the salute ("Thank you, Cadet Captain Smith" works great) if not in AF-style uniform.

And no, you should not wear an incomplete uniform (BDU without insignia).

I disagree.

If a junior individual wearing an Air Force-style uniform recognizes a superior officer wearing civilian attire, he/she would not render a salute to that superior.

The salute is rendered to the grade/uniform, not the person wearing it.

When in uniform, salute officers upon recognition, regardless of
what the officer is wearing. For example, uniformed cadets salute their
squadron commander even if that commander is in civilian attire. In
such instances, the commander typically would verbally acknowledge
the salute, but not return it.

During my 24 years in the Navy, courtesies were rendered to persons, to whom grade is assigned even when they are not in uniform.

[Tim Day]

If I'm saluted I'm returning the salute regardless of uniform. It's just the respectful thing to do, especially as new member working with cadets.

This is not incorrect. CAPP 151 states typically a senior officer in civilian clothes would return a salute by verbally acknowledging that salute, but there's no prohibition on returning a salute when in civilian clothes. Either the salute or a courteous verbal response can demonstrate the same level of respect.

[xray328]

Reminds me of that seen at the end of "Men of Honor" Don't be that guy...

http://youtu.be/9IxUdFJlcDo

(First couple minutes)

[Sapper168]

As a cadet, it is my general practice to salute all senior members, regardless of uniform. When in polo/blazer, it appears that it is their choice to salute back. It is not expected, but I believe it should be encouraged.

Just remember, not every senior member is an officer. Cadets only need to salute officers in the grades of FO or higher. A verbal greeting should be rendered to all other senior members without grade or NCOs.

No distinction is made between Senior member Officers and NCO's.

CAPP-151, Respect on Display, page 5, first sentence under 'Key Principle.'     

" When outdoors and in uniform, cadets salute military officers, CAP senior members, and cadet officers higher in rank than themselves."

Emphasis mine.