Better get used to the BDU - and some thoughts (rant?)

[zooompilot]

At our Wing meeting yesterday here is the word from National on the BDU.  According to the USAF, CAP will never conduct operations in the desert therefore there is no need for a change from the Woodland BDU.  The Woodland BDU is inline with CAPs mission and there are extensive supplies available of Woodland Camo BDu available.  Furthermore, if the BDU does run low there is always the blue BDU which CAP members can wear as an alternative uniform.  Therefore there will be no changes to the utility uniform - case closed, thread closed, end of story.  But wait.

Interestingly for me, I don't care BDU, ABU, Multicam, etc.  The BDU is nostalgic for me as a prior service Army CWO2 and I think the BDU is superior to all newer patterns and materials in many ways (and I can starch it so it looks great).  With that said, I think the switch to whatever uniform our mother service was wearing was of interest from simply a camaraderie standpoint.  AF JROTC or ROTC cadets will never see combat in the desert yet wear the current uniform of the Air Force.  State Defense Forces will never see combat in the desert however they wear the current uniform of the US Army.  Army Explorers, Young Marines, and Sea Cadets, wear the current uniform of their mother services, yet will never see combat of any sought. 

A combat uniform serves two purposes.  1st its utilitarian and serves it purpose to keep its wearer safe under combat and other conditions.  2nd, its a badge of pride for the wearer as a member of a community that values respect, honor, and service for its branch of service.  I joined CAP because I wish to continue to serve my country, and my community.  I also selfishly enjoy the camaraderie especially that of those who are prior service which gives me something that I could never get in the civilian world.  I find it interesting that of all the civilian services CAP is arguably the most active in saving lives with a need to be operationally ready with an expanding role in augmenting DEA, ICE, DHS, FEMA, and USAF roles.  For all that we seem to be looked on with the most disdain of all the non-military services mentioned.  Why?  Because some idiot poser trolled for salutes on a military base?

I've been a CAP member for almost 3 years and dedicate literally hundreds of hours per year including giving up my vacation for the last 3 years to teach at NESA.  There are tens of thousands more like me that do the same and much more.  Sure, there have been posers and trollers that have brought shame on us, I get it.  However, there are hundreds, if not thousands that are dishonorably discharged from all the branches of services per year but they are not indicative of the great honor of the service at large. 

So, this is not a uniform thread per se...that train has left the station and it will be BDUs and Blue Utility Uniforms from now on.  I get that.  My question is, if the USAF doesn't think that we are worthy of wearing their uniform despite all we do, but a JROTC cadet is, maybe we should just simply develop our own uniform that is totally distinct, drop the begging to be designated the USAF Auxiliary and continue to do our service to our country and our communities as the CIVIL AIR PATROL and our USAF mission would be no different than our mission to the DEA, ICE and DHS with no ties to the USAF at all.    I don't need a pretend rank or wanna be uniform to serve my country and if that's the way we're viewed then maybe we need to rethink who we are as a service.

Okay, just may Sunday rant.  Thanks for listening!

Mike.

[PHall]

CAP is not getting the ABU because CAP withdrew their request to the Air Force to wear it.
The Air Force will probably be getting out of the ABU soon because Congress has required the armed services to all go back to wearing the same uniform like we did for over 20 years with the BDU. So it makes no sense for CAP to request to wear the ABU if it is going away in the near future.
The ABU is not a desert camoflage, so I don't know where the desert camo thing came from.

[Chaplaindon]

Well stated.

For what it's worth, as a now-retired (after 23 years service at all eschelons including NHQ), I don't believe the USAF wants any sort of camaraderie with CAP. At best, they will tolerate us ... until IMHO, they can find a way to dispose of us.

They've already divorced us from being their full-time auxiliary. It's no wonder they'll allow JROTC students to wear the ABU but not CAP ... it's not even subtle.

As a current USCG Auxiliarist, I see what it really looks like to be an appreciated civilian auxiliary member of an armed service. The USCG appreciates its auxiliary and depends upon them; the USAF -IMHO- doesn't.

[Garibaldi]

CAP is not getting the ABU because CAP withdrew their request to the Air Force to wear it.
The Air Force will probably be getting out of the ABU soon because Congress has required the armed services to all go back to wearing the same uniform like we did for over 20 years with the BDU. So it makes no sense for CAP to request to wear the ABU if it is going away in the near future.
The ABU is not a desert camoflage, so I don't know where the desert camo thing came from.

I'm thinking he's referring to the DCU or the theater-specific uniforms we would never, ever need.

[Garibaldi]

It's no wonder they'll allow JROTC students to wear the ABU but not CAP ... it's not even subtle.

They allow it because they are more officially tied in with the Air Force and ROTC than us. Although some of our mandate comes from Air University, as well as theirs, they have a different mission than us.

[The14th]

People care far too much about this.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

AF JROTC or ROTC cadets will never see combat in the desert yet wear the current uniform of the Air Force. 

This has been brought up many times...by me, and others on CT.  ROTC I can see but JROTC is basically a school programme overseen/funded by the Air Force.

State Defense Forces will never see combat in the desert however they wear the current uniform of the US Army.  Army Explorers, Young Marines, and Sea Cadets, wear the current uniform of their mother services, yet will never see combat of any sought. 

Partially right.  I have only ever seen Young Marines in BDU's...and they wear their ribbons on the BDU's.  I don't think their adult leaders, except those who are Marines, wear any sort of uniform. 

Sea Cadets, check.  A couple of years ago I ran into a USNSCC Ensign in BDU's...we chatted for about 10 minutes.  He wore subdued metal rank insignia and subdued tapes.  He told me he couldn't figure out why CAP were made to look so "different."

SDF's mostly wear the Army uniform, though a handful of units with Air (Texas) and Navy (Ohio, New York) look more like the armed forces than we ever have or will, and all they usually have to distinguish them is collar brass with their State identifier and/or a slightly different nameplate.

Now some on CT have said "that's because the AF has no control over SDF's wearing their uniform," which I drop the BS flag on.  At the very least, their State Adjutant Generals can tell them what to wear and what not to wear, and if the Air Force doesn't like an SDF wearing their uniform, they can certainly let a SAG know through ANG channels.

I find it interesting that of all the civilian services CAP is arguably the most active in saving lives with a need to be operationally ready with an expanding role in augmenting DEA, ICE, DHS, FEMA, and USAF roles.  For all that we seem to be looked on with the most disdain of all the non-military services mentioned.  Why?  Because some idiot poser trolled for salutes on a military base?

I don't find it "interesting," at all.  I find it mildly annoying (at best) and infuriating (at worst).  The "trolling for salutes" issue is, in the main, apocryphal stories.  There are a few that have happened, but not to the extent that it causes us to be kept on the short uniform leash we are kept on by the AF.

So, this is not a uniform thread per se...that train has left the station and it will be BDUs and Blue Utility Uniforms from now on.  I get that. 

But yet the BDU's have not, and probably will not be, declared "CAP distinctive," meaning that those wearing them are still subject to AF height/weight/grooming strictures.

My question is, if the USAF doesn't think that we are worthy of wearing their uniform despite all we do, but a JROTC cadet is, maybe we should just simply develop our own uniform that is totally distinct, drop the begging to be designated the USAF Auxiliary and continue to do our service to our country and our communities as the CIVIL AIR PATROL and our USAF mission would be no different than our mission to the DEA, ICE and DHS with no ties to the USAF at all.    I don't need a pretend rank or wanna be uniform to serve my country and if that's the way we're viewed then maybe we need to rethink who we are as a service.

Though there are those in upper echelons who would dispute what you say (like those who work with AFRCC), I very much agree with you.  CAP has been the AF's "red-haired stepchild" (at best) for about 25 years now.  Most serving airmen do not even know who we are.

I think if the AF could just let us go, they would, but it would take an act of Congress, literally.  I think their attitude toward us is one of benign neglect...as long as we don't try to wear metal rank or blue shoulder marks like we used to.

Unfortunately, severing ties to the USAF would dry up a HUGE chunk of our funding and I don't think CAP would survive, or if so, in a MUCH smaller form.

Our own uniform?  Plenty on here would say that we have our own uniform...the odiously ugly (IMNSHO) grey/white/blazer setup.

There is no way that CAP will ever let us have anything but that, as their actions in killing the CSU proved.  Uniforms are the "third rail" that CAP will not touch, especially if it involves ANY shade of blue.

(And for those who asked about my prepared uniform proposal...I posted the bloody thing but only a fraction even commented on it, and very few were those who had asked about it! )

So, obviously, I agree with you in many ways...and I am a former CGAuxie myself.  The only reason I have stayed in CAP and not gone back to the CGAux is because I am a lot more interested in aviation than in boats.

Our status with the AF will never change, period, not until/unless we are finally disbanded.

[Eclipse]

People care far too much about this.

+1  If we gave mission and purpose as much thought and time as uniform, we'd be in a lot better shape.

That is not to say the uniform is not broken, it is, really bad, but that is a separate issue.

[lordmonar]

I just love all the disinformation that gets out there on this subject.

"we are not getting ABU's because we will never fight in the desert"..........strange that the USAF does not wear ABU's in the desert....so that argument is kind of not a lame excuse.

I think PHall got the right line on this.  CAP has not gotten ABU's because CAP has never asked for them.   We almost did....but we withdrew that request.....on the belief that the USAF is going to change.

None of this has anything to do with the urban legend that the USAF would like to get rid of us.....which in MHO is complete and utter BS.

YMMV.

[Panache]

I just love all the disinformation that gets out there on this subject.

"we are not getting ABU's because we will never fight in the desert"..........strange that the USAF does not wear ABU's in the desert....so that argument is kind of not a lame excuse.

I think PHall got the right line on this.  CAP has not gotten ABU's because CAP has never asked for them.   We almost did....but we withdrew that request.....on the belief that the USAF is going to change.

None of this has anything to do with the urban legend that the USAF would like to get rid of us.....which in MHO is complete and utter BS.

YMMV.

Yeah, I gotta raise an eyebrown on the "never conduct operations in the desert" bit.  Last I checked, a good portion of the southwestern United States was desert, a fact I'm pretty sure the AF is aware.

Interestingly, a bit mentioned at our Wing Conference earlier this morning is that Ma Blue, in light of the reduction of AF and Reserve forces, is now realizing the value of CAP and desires closer integration of CAP with the First Air Force and the "Total Force".  A side effect of this integration will be a re-design of the promotion requirements, as CAP officers will now be held to a higher standard  closer to their AF and Reserve counterparts, but that's a topic for another thread.

[Eclipse]

I just love all the disinformation that gets out there on this subject.

"we are not getting ABU's because we will never fight in the desert"..........strange that the USAF does not wear ABU's in the desert....so that argument is kind of not a lame excuse.

I think PHall got the right line on this.  CAP has not gotten ABU's because CAP has never asked for them.   We almost did....but we withdrew that request.....on the belief that the USAF is going to change.

None of this has anything to do with the urban legend that the USAF would like to get rid of us.....which in MHO is complete and utter BS.

YMMV.

+This, too.

Why the leadership would even utter those words, assuming they did, is beyond me.

We aren't getting them because we aren't getting them.  Beyond that, who cares?

[Garibaldi]

Cadets care because they want to look tak-ti-kewl.

Most Seniors see it as more of a headache.

[NIN]

Interestingly, a bit mentioned at our Wing Conference earlier this morning is that Ma Blue, in light of the reduction of AF and Reserve forces, is now realizing the value of CAP and desires closer integration of CAP with the First Air Force and the "Total Force".  A side effect of this integration will be a re-design of the promotion requirements, as CAP officers will now be held to a higher standard  closer to their AF and Reserve counterparts, but that's a topic for another thread.

That tracks 150% with what I've gotten as well.

[PHall]

Interestingly, a bit mentioned at our Wing Conference earlier this morning is that Ma Blue, in light of the reduction of AF and Reserve forces, is now realizing the value of CAP and desires closer integration of CAP with the First Air Force and the "Total Force".  A side effect of this integration will be a re-design of the promotion requirements, as CAP officers will now be held to a higher standard  closer to their AF and Reserve counterparts, but that's a topic for another thread.

That tracks 150% with what I've gotten as well.

And First Air Force is an almost 100% Air National Guard manned unit. Interesting....

[Garibaldi]

Interestingly, a bit mentioned at our Wing Conference earlier this morning is that Ma Blue, in light of the reduction of AF and Reserve forces, is now realizing the value of CAP and desires closer integration of CAP with the First Air Force and the "Total Force".  A side effect of this integration will be a re-design of the promotion requirements, as CAP officers will now be held to a higher standard  closer to their AF and Reserve counterparts, but that's a topic for another thread.

That tracks 150% with what I've gotten as well.

And First Air Force is an almost 100% Air National Guard manned unit. Interesting....

Quite. I had a thought that we would operate better as an instrument of the Air Guard as opposed to the regular Air Force. Our civilian missions are similar.

[Eclipse]

Interestingly, a bit mentioned at our Wing Conference earlier this morning is that Ma Blue, in light of the reduction of AF and Reserve forces, is now realizing the value of CAP and desires closer integration of CAP with the First Air Force and the "Total Force".  A side effect of this integration will be a re-design of the promotion requirements, as CAP officers will now be held to a higher standard  closer to their AF and Reserve counterparts, but that's a topic for another thread.

That tracks 150% with what I've gotten as well.

I'll believe it when I start getting strategic plans and direction that are in any way connected to 1AF plans
in anything but a last-minute "OMG!" way.

We've been hearing about CAP being part of "Total Force" for 10+ years.

It would be just like the USAF to finally start expecting CAP to cash those chits now that it is at it's smallest level of readiness
and size in a decade.

[lordmonar]

Cadets care because they want to look tak-ti-kewl.

Most Seniors see it as more of a headache.

Let's be honest....I want them because I want to be immediately identifiable as part of the AF team.

And don't disparage the "cool" factor from cadets........we want to use every tool we can to get cadets to join....so we can mold them into the people we want them to be.

[Eclipse]

Mission, purpose, and interesting activities and experiences will bring us far more
useful and retained members then any uniform.

[lordmonar]

Mission, purpose, and interesting activities and experiences will bring us far more
useful and retained members then any uniform.

Not on the CP side.   Which I was addressing.

[Fubar]

Let's be honest....I want them because I want to be immediately identifiable as part of the AF team.

Let's be brutally honest. If we were on the "AF team" we wouldn't have to beg for them.