Senior Officers uncomfortable in Air Force skin?

[Gender]

Unhappy circumstance that so many CAP Senior (Officers) appear to be uncomfortable in Air Force skin.  In my first life in Civil  Air Patrol most Senior Members were graduates of WWII and/or Korea.  They were delighted to wear the USAF uniform.  They spent money to purchase the great looking silver tan service coat uniform.  My Lt Col Group CO wore his service cap with an authentic 50 mission crush.  Our Corprate structure was civilian, sure  enough.  But, we all knew that we were part of the Air Force; and it was very good.

Now we have a significant number of  members who don't want to have anything to do with the military and appear to dislike our Air Force uniform.  Originally, in CAP, we described ourselves as being a "quasi-military" organization.  Since 9/11 the American population has, happily, grown to respect and recognize the value of and sacrafices made by the military.  The "flower children" are long gone.  There is no significant protest movement.  The vast majority of the poplulation values and respects the uniform.  Certainly, in CAP, we should.

For those of us who are too overweight to wear the USAF uniform or who (quite rightfully) have a personal preference for facial hair, a sharp looking, destinctive military style uniform with appropriate head gear (not a baseball cap) would be really appreciated.  We need to give an improved military appearance to a (properly) military organization.   

[Phil Hirons, Jr.]

 :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

[cap235629]

Wecome to CAPTALK Commodore!

I hope you become an active contributor and look forward to your insights being shared with the rest of us!

[johnnyb47]

Having never had the opportunity to serve otherwise I was very nervous about wearing the Air Force blues uniform when I first joined CAP. I didn't feel as though I earned it.
My attitude has changed since but it took some time.
I've lost 50 Lbs, shaved my facial hair and now wear my Blues and BDU's with pride.

I don't think it's always a matter of not WANTING to be military, otherwise we as adults would have joined the boy scouts/cub scouts as den or pack leaders. I think some of us just don't know how to do it right and would prefer not to do it at all.... especially if our wearing of the uniform reflects negatively on our active duty service men and women.
As a cadet you have no choice. Wear your uniform and wear it well. When you come become a senior member it's old hat. I was getting butterflies in my stomach every time I started looking at uniform options.

For the record I was not a big fan of my aviator and slacks combo. I felt like i was wearing a NWA airline pilot holloween costume.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Gender, in full agreement...however, we had a military-type distinctive uniform, the CSU, and for reasons unexplained it's been taken away from us.

I think a lot of the people who wear the nonmilitary uniforms do it for several reasons, other than weight/grooming:

It's cheap.

You don't have to observe customs and courtesies in a polo shirt.

It's cheap.

You can find the components (white shirt, grey pants) at Salvation Army, St. Vince's or Goodwill.

It's cheap.

I haven't yet heard of anyone gigged for uniform violation in the grey/white.

It's cheap.

Be careful...there's an overzealous poster who cannot stop reminding us that we are the CIVIL Air Patrol and should not be in "military" uniform.

Unfortunately, in her ICL taking away the CSU, General Courter told us in no uncertain terms that a "corporate" uniform cannot be "military styled."

That means we're stuck with variations on the current, colourless themes.

[Eclipse]

Unfortunately, in her ICL taking away the CSU, General Courter told us in no uncertain terms that a "corporate" uniform cannot be "military styled."

Where did you get that?  The whites are certainly military-styled.

[a2capt]

... and since when has an ICL not conflicted, reversed, or otherwise disagreed with another ICL?

That in 180 days, should be drafted to regulation, and have not been, so ...

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Unfortunately, in her ICL taking away the CSU, General Courter told us in no uncertain terms that a "corporate" uniform cannot be "military styled."

Where did you get that?  The whites are certainly military-styled.

Hmm.

If nonstandard grey trousers, a nonstandard white shirt and a nonstandard blazer are "military-styled"...then maybe I need to rethink what "uniform" means.

I should have said General Courter's PowerPoint explaining the ICL:

"Corporate style uniforms do not exist to allow those who may not wear the USAF-style to have a military-looking alternative."

Corporate uniform may not be military in style

[Eclipse]

"Why" any of our uniforms "exist" is conjecture at best, and assumptions and assertions regarding them
are generally inconsistent and in many case contradict themselves.

The style of the aviator whites is most certainly "military style", unless you've seen your average
business manager wearing ribbons and badges while processing TPS reports.

[BradM]

I should have said General Courter's PowerPoint explaining the ICL:

"Corporate style uniforms do not exist to allow those who may not wear the USAF-style to have a military-looking alternative."

Corporate uniform may not be military in style

New General, new National Commander, maybe means we can re-evaluate this? I don't see what is wrong with someone like me who could wear the USAF uniform because I'm in weight and grooming  standards except for a trimmed goatee instead of the little Air Force mustache. Why I couldn't have a gray military looking alternative uniform jacket/service cap to wear ontop of the white aviator shirt and gray slacks. I would vote for this and I don't think I would be alone.



Here I am at work doing a General Grant imprerssion for Presidents Day (February) this year. I work at a retirement home and we often have costume days for when we celebrate holidays and Halloween, etc.

[NCRblues]

I should have said General Courter's PowerPoint explaining the ICL:

"Corporate style uniforms do not exist to allow those who may not wear the USAF-style to have a military-looking alternative."

Corporate uniform may not be military in style

New General, new National Commander, maybe means we can re-evaluate this? I don't see what is wrong with someone like me who could wear the USAF uniform because I'm in weight and grooming  standards except for a trimmed goatee instead of the little Air Force mustache. Why I couldn't have a gray military looking alternative uniform jacket/service cap to wear ontop of the white aviator shirt and gray slacks. I would vote for this and I don't think I would be alone.

Gen. Carr thinks the exact same as Gen. Courter did, that's why he was elected. The NB avoided change (any change at all  ) like the black plague.

Whatever Gen. Courter said, will stand with Gen. Carr.

[ol'fido]

Maybe this would work....

http://www.flickr.com/photos/vancouveropera/4406873213/#

[tsrup]

double post..

[tsrup]

Maybe this would work....

http://www.flickr.com/photos/vancouveropera/4406873213/#

Or this, so the corporate uniform can have it's hat and belt too
http://www.flickr.com/photos/vancouveropera/4406896695/#in/photostream/

[BradM]

I was thinking of a gray service cap like the Air Force cap but in a gray that matches the jacket. Teh CAP emblem on the cap.

A jacket like the Germans are using in the darker gray. No piping. With silver CAP coat of arms buttons. Matching slacks. CAP insignia and ribbons, badges on it. Name tag.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

[Gen. Carr thinks the exact same as Gen. Courter did, that's why he was elected. The NB avoided change (any change at all  ) like the black plague.

Whatever Gen. Courter said, will stand with Gen. Carr.

Concur.

That means if you can't/won't wear the AF type, get your slacks, white shirt and blazer on and shut-up.

[tsrup]

or draft a proposal and send it up the chain.

Unless you're actively doing something to fix what you perceive as a problem, then you are only perpetuating it.


Whats the worse that happens?  They say no?  Then what have you lost?

[BradM]

[Gen. Carr thinks the exact same as Gen. Courter did, that's why he was elected. The NB avoided change (any change at all  ) like the black plague.

Whatever Gen. Courter said, will stand with Gen. Carr.

Concur.

That means if you can't/won't wear the AF type, get your slacks, white shirt and blazer on and shut-up.

I just wear the long sleeve white aviator shirt, gray slacks, shiney military shoes, black leather belt, Air Force tie with tie clasp, and not wear a blazer or jacket on the more formal occasions. The white shirt has my rank epaulettes, ribbons, name tag, badges on it. So no hat or jacket for me if I have my goatee.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

or draft a proposal and send it up the chain.

Unless you're actively doing something to fix what you perceive as a problem, then you are only perpetuating it.


Whats the worse that happens?  They say no?  Then what have you lost?

I have drafted proposals.  They still exist.  In the aftermath of the CSU debacle I thought "what's the use?"

However, NHQ have a moratorium on any uniform changes as far as I know (Ned, is this still true?).

And I really doubt that NHQ gives a monkey's about an opinion from a worker-bee Captain, especially one contrary to the status quo.

[Eclipse]

"Who's the tennis referee next to all those officers on the dais?" 

"He's everyone's commander."

"Oh..."