Uniforms: Things never change...gotta love consistancy

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Now why do you want to steal the Overseas Squadrons "Wing" patch?

That is not the overseas wing patch.

And my apologies for my previous post.

No apologies necessary. I could have worded that better, and I am sure  that I could have worded it better the second time too.

I am not very eloquent and my vocabulary is rather obtuse. In the Army they used to sit and count the number of times *F word would come out of my mouth while giving a briefing to my team. I think they got to about 47 in less than 20 minutes.

[ßτε]

Now why do you want to steal the Overseas Squadrons "Wing" patch?

That is not the overseas wing patch.

It sure looks like it to me.

[Major Carrales]

Now why do you want to steal the Overseas Squadrons "Wing" patch?

That is not the overseas wing patch.

It sure looks like it to me.

That is similar is style the overseas wing patch, but I think that particular patch shown is an old WWII era patch.

[PHall]

Now why do you want to steal the Overseas Squadrons "Wing" patch?

That is not the overseas wing patch.

It sure looks like it to me.

That is similar is style the overseas wing patch, but I think that particular patch shown is an old WWII era patch.

Go check the Vanguard website. I realize they're not "offical", but they do have pictures.

[Nilsog]

CAP Emblem Patch, originally used during WWII:



CAP Overseas Squadron Wing Patch:



Similar, but different. If anything, it was the original CAP patch. I don't see how wearing it could offend anyone, and would clearly distinguish us as Civil Air Patrol. Wear it on BDUs, Blues, Corporate. Solution presented.

[SarDragon]

Re: CAP Overseas Squadron Wing Patch

That's interesting. The one I have in my hand, and wore while in an O/S unit in the late '80s, has USAF in place of the US, and a white border, instead of the blue border shown above. A review of my uniform references reveals the US and blue border design in versions of CAPM 39-1 both before and after my time in the O/S unit. I'm wondering if they were made locally, and someone goofed the design. I just bought them from the on hand stock, and never got them from the Bookstore.

Major Harris - your experience with the same unit?

[NIN]

I am not very eloquent and my vocabulary is rather obtuse. In the Army they used to sit and count the number of times *F word would come out of my mouth while giving a briefing to my team. I think they got to about 47 in less than 20 minutes.

47 in 20 minutes?  Was that when you were just starting out?   I've seen cadets who could do a better job of that.

[lordmonar]

I think that was the patch from way back in the day.

By the time I was CC for OS-113 we were using the blue with "US" that I bought from the BookStore/CAPMART.

I agree that we should wear this patch on all our uniforms.....it would go a long way to set ouselves apart from the USAF.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I agree that we should wear this patch on all our uniforms.....it would go a long way to set ouselves apart from the USAF.

I agree, but not on all uniforms.  It is an absolute devil to get patches to look right on the AF blue shirt, and the material for that leaves very prominent holes.

Service coat, blue lightweight jacket, B/BDU's, things like that, I think would be good.

RM: I don't know what your fixation is with the colour red or perpetual reminders that "we are the CIVIL Air Patrol."  WRT the former - red looks absolutely atrocious with blue in a way that it didn't with tan/khaki/OD, and the latter....WE KNOW.  The "Civil" in our title comes from our background in the Office of Civilian Defence.  I doubt there is a serving member today who doesn't know we are the Civil Air Patrol.  Your opinion on having us all out of military-style uniforms is well-known.

I think the 500-pound-gorilla in the room is the one we've been dancing around for at least the past 15 years or so...to ask the USAF for a straight yes/no answer on this question:

DO YOU REALLY NEED US ANYMORE?

If the answer is "no, the world has changed a lot since 1941, you served a useful purpose that is no longer needed, and thank you," then we stand down one last time.

If the answer is "yes," then we quit messing about with the "AUX ON/OFF" status.  We are either the USAF Auxiliary or we are not, and that means returning to a military-style mode of operations, doing our three core missions and doing them right, not trying to just be a garden-variety ES organisation with airplanes, and quit messing about with anything that gets away with our mission as the USAF Auxiliary.

And how that relates to uniforms...?

We get everyone wearing an Air Force-type uniform, junk the polo shirts, junk the grey/whites, junk the blazers.  I don't see why it couldn't happen.  As has been mentioned, the USCG has no problem with their Auxiliary doing so, and the AF itself doesn't seem to have a problem with its older members not exactly being in fighting trim.

The AF needs to start educating its people about us.  It is inexcusable that MTI's are actually tellling recruits to "ignore us."  A huge reason why younger AF personnel are getting us confused is that they don't know who the hell we are!  And for those CAP members who "troll for salutes" (a small minority), disciplinary action ranging from verbal reprimand, to demotion, to 2B.

So how this relates to uniforms?

Blue uniform: CAP lapel cutouts for all members, CAP "overseas" crest on most uniforms, CAP brushed-silver two-line nameplate (like CSU) and return to blue nameplates and shoulder marks (with embroidered "CAP") for all members.

BDU, field, whatever: We go with what the Air Force has, with dark-blue (ditch the ultramarine) nametapes and grade.

This is, again, contingent on whether or not we remain a part of the Air Force.

[Eclipse]

Cyborg, someday you and I will meet, the clouds will part, and together we will fix CAP...

...or just have some high-quality coffee and whine and complain about all that is wrong with it, but either way...

...I am looking forward to it!

[ColonelJack]

CHUCK!!!  Welcome back, my friend!!!

Jack

[RVT]

We get everyone wearing an Air Force-type uniform, junk the polo shirts, junk the grey/whites, junk the blazers.  I don't see why it couldn't happen.  As has been mentioned, the USCG has no problem with their Auxiliary doing so, and the AF itself doesn't seem to have a problem with its older members not exactly being in fighting trim.

My boat crew looks like ZZ top.  Nobody has ever had a problem with it.  The Polo shirts and blazers still have a place, but not as a general purpose uniform  They are for when the MISSION requires a non-military appearance.

When I came back to CAP after a two decade plus break the first thing that jumped out at me was the complete second set of uniforms that existed.  My initial guess was that it was done in preparation for a transfer from the USAF to DHS that would result in USAF uniforms going away, but no.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

I can't believe all the extra uniforms either. I have seen so many people wearing the polo, and most of them are not overweight or fuzzy. I can understand the desire for a uniform that does not give the military appearance, thought I can't quite figure out when that would help anything. I can't understand wanting a polo uniform for the PAO being on TV, I can't understand the polo while at a commercial airport, and nothing else comes to mind. The best I can figure is that it is a uniform for people who are too lazy to keep a military uniform in proper appearance and wear.

I think talking to USAF with a lot of respect and humility, we can get a lot, if not all of our uniform items back. Talking with USAF with a LOT of respect and humility we could get the ok to allow everyone wear the USAF style uniforms and get rid of the corporate uniforms all together. Granted, if it were to move to a point where everyone is wearing the USAF style uniforms, it would require everyone to be properly groomed. However I don't think it would matter much that everyone has to keep their hair cut and their face shaved. I can imagine that there are quite a few that will hate to shave their beards and cut off their pony tails. I just believe that getting everyone into USAF style uniforms would be a huge jump in self esteem for those who are overweight. I know I am beating a dead horse, and I have already said this a few times in this thread, but it really does pain me to see that there are some who don't have a good looking professional uniform.

[Ned]

I think talking to USAF with a lot of respect and humility, we can get a lot, if not all of our uniform items back. Talking with USAF with a LOT of respect and humility we could get the ok to allow everyone wear the USAF style uniforms and get rid of the corporate uniforms all together.

Doh. I feel so stupid.

I was speaking to the CAP-USAF commander and vice commander less than two weeks ago on this very issue.  If only I had thought to use a little more respect and humility, imagine where we would be today.

I'll have to give it another try.

Stay tuned.

Ned Lee

[BillB]

Ned
Why would the Commander and Vice Commander of CAP-USAF listen to you. You're only a LtColonel

[JeffDG]

I think talking to USAF with a lot of respect and humility, we can get a lot, if not all of our uniform items back. Talking with USAF with a LOT of respect and humility we could get the ok to allow everyone wear the USAF style uniforms and get rid of the corporate uniforms all together.

Doh. I feel so stupid.

I was speaking to the CAP-USAF commander and vice commander less than two weeks ago on this very issue.  If only I had thought to use a little more respect and humility, imagine where we would be today.

I'll have to give it another try.

Stay tuned.

Ned Lee

Lemme know if I can help.  As someone from one of Her Majesty's Dominions, we're used to bowing before Royalty and showing proper deference...

[Bluelakes 13]

Doh. I feel so stupid.
I was speaking to the CAP-USAF commander and vice commander less than two weeks ago on this very issue.  If only I had thought to use a little more respect and humility, imagine where we would be today.
I'll have to give it another try.
Stay tuned.
Ned Lee

ROTFLMAO!!!!   

[SarDragon]

Ned
Why would the Commander and Vice Commander of CAP-USAF listen to you. You're only a LtColonel

I'm certain through no fault of his own! 

[BradM]

I think talking to USAF with a lot of respect and humility, we can get a lot, if not all of our uniform items back. Talking with USAF with a LOT of respect and humility we could get the ok to allow everyone wear the USAF style uniforms and get rid of the corporate uniforms all together.

Doh. I feel so stupid.

I was speaking to the CAP-USAF commander and vice commander less than two weeks ago on this very issue.  If only I had thought to use a little more respect and humility, imagine where we would be today.

I'll have to give it another try.

Stay tuned.

Ned Lee

If we got rid of the corporate uniforms then they would have to allow for beards and goatees on the Air Force uniforms and also do away with the weight standards. A William Riker style beard I think would be acceptable and also the goatee I have still looks good in uniform. In my opinion.

If we keep the grooming and weight standards then we have to have alternate uniforms.

[Bluelakes 13]

I am for having one uniform for all SM's.  For those quick to pass judgement, I do not loath the military nor usaf-style uniforms.  But considering the fact we have taken "USAFAUX" off everything (planes, emblems, and autos), I do not foresee expanding the usaf-style uniforms.  So if our future will not be a change in the military-style requirements, then lets pick one of the existing uniforms we have for everyone and move on. 

One uniform, so we can look, you know.... uniform.