FIRE PATROL

[wingnut]

In the 1960s my dad flew fire watch for CAP, many of the Fire watch towers are manned by Volunteers.

Today I was Flying in the Mountains East Of Goleta California and ran into three "Fire Watch" aircraft. These are private contractors that are paid to fly around and look for forest fires.

my question is;

SHOULD CAP BE TASKED TO PERFORM FIRE WATCH PATROLS? WE DID IT IN THE PAST, AND IT IS A PART OF HOMELAND SECURITY.

[BillB]

CAP is still doing Fire Patrol in some areas, Eglin AFB for an example. But you'll find that fire patrol is very limited nationally. It seems that the main areas are on Federal lands.

[jimmydeanno]

Our Wing is going to be performing Fire Watch missions starting this year.  I don't know all the details yet because they are still planning our role, but it should be interesting.

[Cobra1597]

Sounds like a reasonable use of our resources, particularly in areas prone to wildfires.

[jeders]

A couple of years ago when there were wild fires here in Texas we were out flying just about everyday. Now if only they learned that it's cheaper to send aircraft to search areas near their base rather than send your plane near where another plane is based and that plane near where yours is based.

[PHall]

Yes we could probably do the mission (Fire Watch), but it would probably turn into a scheduling/logistics nightmare.

[ammotrucker]

In talking to our EOC manager, it not that most would not like to have you do it.  But, its a funding thing that they are dealing with.

My EOC manager in South Florida wants us to do it, but said that if he used the money for this purpose the County would have to think about shutting down  parks or Liabraries.  So, what is a EOC manager to do.

I guess is not fly fire patrols.  Until soemone else in the county's house is on fire or near a wildfire.

[Ned]

And since there are apparently some private contractors already performing this function, it is probably not a good idea for CAP to try to fill this niche.

It is not our function to put commercial pilots out of business simply because our volunteers will work for free (or just per diem  ).

Ned Lee

[stillamarine]

Yes we could probably do the mission (Fire Watch), but it would probably turn into a scheduling/logistics nightmare.

As mentioned above CAP flies Fire Watch over the Eglin AFB reservation. We have been doing so now for a few years. We fly a minimum of 1 a day, unless weather precludes flying. During summer months and late fall we usually will fly 2 a day and sometimes 3 a days.

Scheduling can at times be an issue, especially with holidays and such. Weekdays are sometimes harder  to schedule then weekends. When we do 2 a days we sometimes split the flights up between 2 crews.

We put a ton of hours on our aircraft, as I've spoken about in the past. We had 2 aircraft assigned to our group and just recently received our 3rd! It will go on the east end of the group as soon as they get a minimum of 2 full crews. They are almost there!

Generally on Fire Patrol we only use a two man crew with the right seater being either a MS or MO or trainee in those positions. A lot of times we get two MPs on a flight. Fire Patrols are great training flights as well. You can do all the search patterns, and many of the other SQTR stuff.

We also tend to use the Fire Patrol crews like a Duty Crew if something else comes up. I once flew 2 fire patrols and 5 minutes after I got in the door got a callout for a ELT. Was pushing Crew Time on that day!

[RiverAux]

Its a good mission for CAP, but depends on some jurisdiction other than the AF funding it.  Most states either don't need this service or have made other arrangements already.

[wingnut]

And since there are apparently some private contractors already performing this function, it is probably not a good idea for CAP to try to fill this niche.

It is not our function to put commercial pilots out of business simply because our volunteers will work for free (or just per diem  ).

Ned Lee

Yes Ned, thats true, did you know that there was a private outfit up in Washington State that wanted Millions so they could do SAR in the State (ignoring CAP), Fire watch being done by private firms is like Blackwater, I guess if you can afford 1 guy flying around at 2,000 per day go for it. It does remind me of a recent job from a private Hyperspectral company. They wanted $20,000 to do one fly over that the Archer could do. hmmmm

well I guess its all relative,  solid gold toilet seats and stuff

[smj58501]

well I guess its all relative,  solid gold toilet seats and stuff

Gotta launder the money for "black" technology R and D somehow 

Tags - MIKE

[SAR-EMT1]

Specifically, what states have this program for CAP crews?
Second: Any additional training required? (other then MP/MS/MO)

[fyrpilot2202]

Locally the US Forest Service hires private aircraft to fly staff on lightning (fire) locating flights.  Flight following (radio) service and observers are provided by the Forest Service.  The contract aircraft owners and pilots qualify under federal agreements.  I do not know of any CAP active fire flights here in Washington.  Last week I flew a rental 172 with documentation from Dept of Interior (BLM).

http://www.fs.fed.us/r6/fire/aviation/mgtpln/NWAvMgmtPln.pdf

[wingnut]

In CAWG  one of our most experienced pilots is also a contract pilot for the Forest Service, he feels strongly about CAP not being used for Fire patrol. I agree if we are talking about a regular operation. My concern is the issue of "Bad Guys", the name of which we may not speak (OPSEC) or any of the bogey men out there setting fires to cause great harm.

I do believe CAP is going to become truly the Civil Air Patrol, think about it. in the 1950s and 60s we were an essential tool in the arsenal of "Civil Defense". that included, Radiological Monitoring, looking for saboteurs, Border Patrol, Forrest Fire Patrol, essential delivery of Supplies, Its coming Guys, the Cold War is back except we just have a different bogey man.

And while we are at it I want the Khaki Uniform back along with the 50 mission crushed hat.

[RiverAux]

Flying for the feds, especially the USFS or Department of the Interior is pretty complicated in terms of paperwork. 

General fire patrols however are not any more complicated (actually less so) than our normal SAR operations.  However, where it gets tricky is when you're trying to operate in conjunction with the fire-fighting effort.  You get lots of planes and helicopters in a very small space and I don't think CAP needs to be doing that part of things. 

[jeders]

I can't speak for other states, or even other crews in Texas, but when we flew fire watch it was fairly simple. Far less complex patterns than flying SAR missions because it's pretty easy to see a plume of smoke. And since it was run by the state, not the feds, it wasn't too complicated on that end.

[wingnut]

CAP does not belong in the fire fighting business for sure, but we could be flying around, doing form 5s, form 91s, training scanners and observers, SDIS training, Archer Training and be doing the "Look I see smoke in thar hills". if the CDF (California Department Of Forestry) had just an hour extra head start on some of these fires it would help.

"Americas Eyes In The SKY"