Technical or Specialized Operations

Started by AALTIS, December 20, 2014, 02:57:46 AM

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Eclipse

Quote from: JeffDG on December 22, 2014, 08:20:16 PM
I once got approval for non-CAP passengers on an AFAM (Wing/CC, NOC, LR/ADO, LR/CC, CAP-USAF/XO, CAP-USAF/CC) approved in under 2 hours.

Not even a >LITTLE< close to the same thing.

"That Others May Zoom"

JeffDG

Quote from: Eclipse on December 22, 2014, 08:23:15 PM
Quote from: JeffDG on December 22, 2014, 08:20:16 PM
I once got approval for non-CAP passengers on an AFAM (Wing/CC, NOC, LR/ADO, LR/CC, CAP-USAF/XO, CAP-USAF/CC) approved in under 2 hours.

Not even a >LITTLE< close to the same thing.

It's a longer approval chain, and accomplished in a wholly reasonable timeframe.  Heck, even had a couple weeks before the actual flight was scheduled, so there was precisely zero time pressure, just a routine submission, and rather rapid approval.

Eclipse

There's a difference between submitting something through an approved process and everyone happened to be
at their computer, and a non-standard process that requires actual consideration and potential unnecessary liability.

For the record, depending on what day of the week it was, and who was on leave where, those last "4" approvals
could have all been the same person, and regardless, generally when the LRADO is good with it, the next 3 don't really
have issues.


"That Others May Zoom"

Storm Chaser

#43
Quote from: JeffDG on December 22, 2014, 08:20:16 PM
Quote from: Storm Chaser on December 22, 2014, 08:15:36 PM
Because we all know that in CAP it doesn't take an afternoon to approve things like this.

With a well-written justification they are.

I once got approval for non-CAP passengers on an AFAM (Wing/CC, NOC, LR/ADO, LR/CC, CAP-USAF/XO, CAP-USAF/CC) approved in under 2 hours.

Not the same thing. What Eclipse said.

Luis R. Ramos

So how do I find Sawyer's 101? I tried "Sawyer" but am getting only regular members. Or... does Sawyer has a CAPID as well...?

???
Squadron Safety Officer
Squadron Communication Officer
Squadron Emergency Services Officer

Flying Pig

My thought would be that you would have to search the member.  I cant imagine CAP would formally issue a CAP 101 card to an animal.  Because you would need a CAPID number to even start the process. 

THRAWN

Quote from: Flying Pig on December 23, 2014, 01:48:43 PM
My thought would be that you would have to search the member.  I cant imagine CAP would formally issue a CAP 101 card to an animal.  Because you would need a CAPID number to even start the process.

Why? Police departments issue badges to them...
Strup-"Belligerent....at times...."
AFRCC SMC 10-97
NSS ISC 05-00
USAF SOS 2000
USAF ACSC 2011
US NWC 2016
USMC CSCDEP 2023

Flying Pig

We are talking about CAP.  If it was a real 101 card, there would have to be a CAPID number attached to it.  That was the original question... was it ceremonial or did the dog get a REAL 101 card. 

PHall

Quote from: Flying Pig on December 23, 2014, 02:16:18 PM
We are talking about CAP.  If it was a real 101 card, there would have to be a CAPID number attached to it.  That was the original question... was it ceremonial or did the dog get a REAL 101 card.

And do dogs pay normal dues to CAP or is there a special canine rate? Do they need to be safety current?

Luis R. Ramos

Quote
The dog also has been issued a 101 card by NHQ so it can be used as a "CAP asset".


This is why I searched the dog's name. Because it would probably have shown whether it was ceremonial or not by its different or same wording!

I also found her name (the handler), but will not state what I found on grounds of being FOUO info.
Squadron Safety Officer
Squadron Communication Officer
Squadron Emergency Services Officer

kratclif

Quote from: Eclipse on December 22, 2014, 08:22:44 PM
NHQ can't correct legitimate typos and regulatory conflicts, let alone generate a custom 101 card
with a specialty that doesn't actually exist.  I can make you anything you want to be with Photoshop,
show me how that's done for real.

Why do you think the specialty doesn't actually exist?

What if I told you it was listed for everyone (with appropriate eServices permissions) to see right in the CAPWATCH Achievements table? I'm fairly certain it didn't end up in there without NHQ approval  ;D

Whether or not any members currently hold this specialty is another matter, and I honestly have no idea. But since it's listed in the database as a specialty perhaps it would print on a real 101 card if authorized for a member, no Photoshop required?
Maj Kevin Ratcliff, CAP

Eclipse

Quote from: kratclif on December 23, 2014, 10:53:54 PM
Whether or not any members currently hold this specialty is another matter, and I honestly have no idea. But since it's listed in the database as a specialty perhaps it would print on a real 101 card if authorized for a member, no Photoshop required?

For a dog?

Are there SETs?  Which Commander approved the pre-reqs?  What about Fam/Prep?
Two mission participation?

What's the doctrine for an "internal SAR dog?"

What's the re-up schedule?

There are sure to be all manner of "things" in the CAPWatch tables that would horrify those who actually
read and adhere to the regs, that doesn't make them viable CAP missions, nor a good idea.

"That Others May Zoom"

Private Investigator

Quote from: PHall on December 23, 2014, 05:27:24 PM
Quote from: Flying Pig on December 23, 2014, 02:16:18 PM
We are talking about CAP.  If it was a real 101 card, there would have to be a CAPID number attached to it.  That was the original question... was it ceremonial or did the dog get a REAL 101 card.

And do dogs pay normal dues to CAP or is there a special canine rate? Do they need to be safety current?

That is funny  :clap:

Private Investigator

Quote from: Eclipse on December 23, 2014, 11:13:12 PM
Quote from: kratclif on December 23, 2014, 10:53:54 PM
Whether or not any members currently hold this specialty is another matter, and I honestly have no idea. But since it's listed in the database as a specialty perhaps it would print on a real 101 card if authorized for a member, no Photoshop required?

For a dog?

Are there SETs?  Which Commander approved the pre-reqs?  What about Fam/Prep?
Two mission participation?

What's the doctrine for an "internal SAR dog?"

What's the re-up schedule?

There are sure to be all manner of "things" in the CAPWatch tables that would horrify those who actually
read and adhere to the regs, that doesn't make them viable CAP missions, nor a good idea.

Has a dog every got credit for a "save" or a "find"? Is their a "SAR K-9 of the Year" award?   ::)

Flying Pig

Quote from: Private Investigator on December 24, 2014, 08:32:17 AM
Quote from: PHall on December 23, 2014, 05:27:24 PM
Quote from: Flying Pig on December 23, 2014, 02:16:18 PM
We are talking about CAP.  If it was a real 101 card, there would have to be a CAPID number attached to it.  That was the original question... was it ceremonial or did the dog get a REAL 101 card.

And do dogs pay normal dues to CAP or is there a special canine rate? Do they need to be safety current?

That is funny  :clap:
Hall.... now you are just being ridiculous.  You know that no living creature is beyond the tentacles of the safety brief!

kratclif

Quote from: Eclipse on December 23, 2014, 11:13:12 PM
Quote from: kratclif on December 23, 2014, 10:53:54 PM
Whether or not any members currently hold this specialty is another matter, and I honestly have no idea. But since it's listed in the database as a specialty perhaps it would print on a real 101 card if authorized for a member, no Photoshop required?

For a dog?

Are there SETs?  Which Commander approved the pre-reqs?  What about Fam/Prep?
Two mission participation?

What's the doctrine for an "internal SAR dog?"

What's the re-up schedule?

There are sure to be all manner of "things" in the CAPWatch tables that would horrify those who actually
read and adhere to the regs, that doesn't make them viable CAP missions, nor a good idea.

No, not for a dog, but a canine handler. The actual text from Achievements.txt is "TSK9 - Technical Specialty K9 Handler"

I have NO other information about this specialty. I posted it because it's factual information relevant to the discussion, not because I think it's a good idea for CAP to perform K9 SAR operations.
Maj Kevin Ratcliff, CAP

Eclipse

#56
Quote from: kratclif on December 24, 2014, 04:38:15 PM
No, not for a dog, but a canine handler. The actual text from Achievements.txt is "TSK9 - Technical Specialty K9 Handler"

The news articles posted by the dog's owner and handler on her training site, as well as a number of other sources
indicate that the >dog< was issued a 101 card.

No one has indicated yet what "internal" SAR means (just looking for members who get lost during missions?)  But one could conjecture
that this is simply a feel-good situation for all involved, and that the dog isn't allowed to participate in actual missions.

Feel-good things make people feel-good, so be it, but to be touting this as a CAP capability, even marginally, seems somewhat
"benevolent' at best.

"That Others May Zoom"

lordmonar

And grousing about it....even here on CAPTALK is somewhat "malevolent".

PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP

Eclipse

#58
Quote from: lordmonar on December 24, 2014, 06:28:09 PM
And grousing about it....even here on CAPTALK is somewhat "malevolent".

No - it's called holding the organization to its rules and common sense.  Something which apparently isn't important to some people,
which is why it's in the state it is.

CAP has regulations about correspondence and use of insignia and indices, and "empowered" working groups decide to
change things without actually updating the pertinent regulations. "For the good of the corps".

CAP has regulations about what is, and what >isn't< an ES mission, yet there are "empowered" people all over the organization
who simple "do what they will" without thought to the organizational members ramifications and consequences. "For the good of the corps."

CAP has regulations about uniform wear and appearance which are nearly universally ignored or altered as hoc because commanders
have no imperative to stress discipline and good order, because that might cause attrition.  "For the good of the corps."

See how this works?

If it's important enough to do, it's important to do it correctly and by the book.

"That Others May Zoom"

Luis R. Ramos

My point of view is that Eclipse, PHall, and others asking about this are right. Again, it goes to credibility. Members pick on this story then go bragging about our capabilities to others outside, our credibility as a SAR asset just goes down.

The news stated "the dog is an internal search asset with a 101 card." When Senator Joe Q. Public or County Admin Jane Public Doe ask our member who just stated "we have search canines" asks "how many" and "capabilities?" and our member goes "errr, just one certified," and "internal." What will those officials say?

I am sure they will not say "welcome."
Squadron Safety Officer
Squadron Communication Officer
Squadron Emergency Services Officer