Civil Air Patrol finds downed aircraft in Carter County Montana

[vento]

Black Hills Priest found dead in plane crash
Civil Air Patrol finds downed aircraft in Carter County Montana Sunday morning

[LTC Don]

Great Job Montana Wing!

What was that antenna array strapped to the strut about?  Haven't seen that setup before, especially on what looks like a G1000 182.

[Flying Pig]

Is that the antenna set up for the program to find lost Alzheimers/dementia patients? 

[sardak]

Great Job Montana Wing!

All operational resources came from Wyoming and South Dakota Wings. The plane was found in Montana.

Mike

[Майор Хаткевич]

Kittlemann also said the large amount of finger buttes in Montana may have caused the accident when paired with the low visibility conditions.

I have no idea what that is. I don't think I've ever even heard the word.

[THRAWN]

Kittlemann also said the large amount of finger buttes in Montana may have caused the accident when paired with the low visibility conditions.

I have no idea what that is. I don't think I've ever even heard the word.

A butte /bjuːt/ is an isolated hill with steep, often vertical sides and a small, relatively flat top; buttes are smaller than mesas, plateaus, and table landforms. In some regions, such as the Midwestern United States and Northwestern United States, the word is used for any hill.[citation needed] The word butte comes from a French word meaning "small hill"; its use is prevalent in the Western United States, including the southwest, where "mesa" is also used for the larger landform. Because of their distinctive shapes, buttes are frequently landmarks in plains and mountainous areas. In differentiating mesas and buttes, geographers use the rule of thumb that a mesa has a top that is wider than its height, while a butte has a top that is narrower than its height.[1]....COURTESY OF OUR WIKIPEDIA FRIENDS....

[Luis R. Ramos]

If you watched 40's, 50's and 60's cowboys and Indians movies, I am pretty sure yall saw mesas and buttes even though you did not know what they were called... Recall those, apply the definitions, and now you know why the buttes are called "finger buttes."

[Майор Хаткевич]

I'm 24, and just shy of 13 years in the States. Westerns are not something I've watched.

[Luis R. Ramos]

Ok, a hint.

Rent movies with John Wayne. Most when he portrayed a cowboy. He would also portray US Cavalry officers. Try these:

Fort Apache
She Wore a Yellow Ribbon
The Big Trail
Rio Grande


Oh, my memory is failing me! I cannot remember others. Gregory Peck, Dean Martin... Randolph Scott.

Maybe also try Clint Eastwood, of The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly. He did a very large variety of films. Portrayed I think the name of his character was Detective Callahan in The Dirty Harry series. Clint in The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly; A Fistful of Dollars; and I think For A Few Dollars More portrays an unnamed cowboy. The funny thing is that Clint's pictures are supposed to be American westerns yet were directed by Ennio Morricone, an Italian. Cannot remember though if it has Buttes...

[Eclipse]

I'm 24, and just shy of 13 years in the States. Westerns are not something I've watched.

Have you seen Close Encounters of the Third Kind?
Devils's Tower is a butte.

[Майор Хаткевич]

I'm 24, and just shy of 13 years in the States. Westerns are not something I've watched.

Have you seen Close Encounters of the Third Kind?
Devils's Tower is a butte.

I get it now. I assume finger buttes are smaller, similar to pillars? Google really didn't pull up any good images outside of fields...which is why I posted in the first place. Learn something new every day.

[AirAux]

Wait, what?  You are 24 and have posted over 200,000 posts on CAPTALK?  You do know there is a world out there, don't you??  Are you that little guy with the beard that sits on the mountain with the Campbell Soup recipes??

[ColonelJack]

Wait, what?  You are 24 and have posted over 200,000 posts on CAPTALK?  You do know there is a world out there, don't you??  Are you that little guy with the beard that sits on the mountain with the Campbell Soup recipes??

Um, he has posted 4,400 and change.  He wrote the post that was the 200,000th on the board, however.

Jack

[Майор Хаткевич]

Wait, what?  You are 24 and have posted over 200,000 posts on CAPTALK?  You do know there is a world out there, don't you??  Are you that little guy with the beard that sits on the mountain with the Campbell Soup recipes??

Um, he has posted 4,400 and change.  He wrote the post that was the 200,000th on the board, however.

Jack

What he said. A2Capt is the 300,000th post-maker: http://captalk.net/index.php?action=profile;u=1071


Posts:4,458 (1.562 per day)
Date Registered:07-02-2007, 22:26:31

It's actually amazing that I have as many as I do...over the years I've taken multi-month sabbaticals.

[LSThiker]

I get it now. I assume finger buttes are smaller, similar to pillars? Google really didn't pull up any good images outside of fields...which is why I posted in the first place. Learn something new every day.

Essentially, yes.  There is no official "finger butte" definition.  But generally, yes, the smaller pillar buttes or buttes that look more like a hand with fingers.

There is also an actual place in Montana called Finger Butte.  It is a mountain peak near Baker, MT.

[SarDragon]

Wait, what?  You are 24 and have posted over 200,000 posts on CAPTALK?  You do know there is a world out there, don't you??  Are you that little guy with the beard that sits on the mountain with the Campbell Soup recipes??

Um, he has posted 4,400 and change.  He wrote the post that was the 200,000th on the board, however.

Jack

What he said. A2Capt is the 300,000th post-maker: http://captalk.net/index.php?action=profile;u=1071


Posts:4,458 (1.562 per day)
Date Registered:07-02-2007, 22:26:31

It's actually amazing that I have as many as I do...over the years I've taken multi-month sabbaticals.

But you ARE in the top 10 in the post count.

[Fubar]

I'm glad the aircraft was found to help provide some closure to the community. Definitely a sad outcome.

Can we really strap whatever we want to the sides of our planes? I'd like to know what that antenna is for.

Lastly, and I obviously say this squarely planted in my armchair, if you're going to be interviewed by the media about the grim task of locating a crashed aircraft with fatalities, it would probably be best to not look so happy about it.

[Eclipse]

I thought the same thing.

[SarDragon]

It looks like some sort of DF antenna. Hard to tell w/o a better view.

[JacobAnn]

if you're going to be interviewed by the media about the grim task of locating a crashed aircraft with fatalities, it would probably be best to not look so happy about it.

I know the police receive training in this sort of thing.  I would think at least our PAOs do as well.

[PHall]

I'm glad the aircraft was found to help provide some closure to the community. Definitely a sad outcome.

Can we really strap whatever we want to the sides of our planes? I'd like to know what that antenna is for.

Lastly, and I obviously say this squarely planted in my armchair, if you're going to be interviewed by the media about the grim task of locating a crashed aircraft with fatalities, it would probably be best to not look so happy about it.

Nope, everything we mount on the airplanes needs an STC (Supplemental Type Certificate) from the FAA.
They can get approval for a temp mounting for a one time deal.

[Eclipse]

It looks like some sort of DF antenna. Hard to tell w/o a better view.

I was thinking maybe the DF in the plane was inop and they had to improvise, but as mentioned,
you can't just hang stuff off the struts in a pinch, and I would think it would be as much hassle for the
STC as to just fix the DF.

[JeffDG]

I'm glad the aircraft was found to help provide some closure to the community. Definitely a sad outcome.

Can we really strap whatever we want to the sides of our planes? I'd like to know what that antenna is for.

Lastly, and I obviously say this squarely planted in my armchair, if you're going to be interviewed by the media about the grim task of locating a crashed aircraft with fatalities, it would probably be best to not look so happy about it.

Nope, everything we mount on the airplanes needs an STC (Supplemental Type Certificate) from the FAA.
They can get approval for a temp mounting for a one time deal.

I don't think we need an STC for anything like this.  A 337 or a  "minor alteration" would be sufficient.

An STC requires extensive engineering work, test flights, and the STC itself is published.

We certainly need an A&P to do/supervise the work and sign off on it if we're mounting something on the outside of the A/C, but an STC is overkill.

[PHall]

I'm glad the aircraft was found to help provide some closure to the community. Definitely a sad outcome.

Can we really strap whatever we want to the sides of our planes? I'd like to know what that antenna is for.

Lastly, and I obviously say this squarely planted in my armchair, if you're going to be interviewed by the media about the grim task of locating a crashed aircraft with fatalities, it would probably be best to not look so happy about it.

Nope, everything we mount on the airplanes needs an STC (Supplemental Type Certificate) from the FAA.
They can get approval for a temp mounting for a one time deal.

I don't think we need an STC for anything like this.  A 337 or a  "minor alteration" would be sufficient.

An STC requires extensive engineering work, test flights, and the STC itself is published.

We certainly need an A&P to do/supervise the work and sign off on it if we're mounting something on the outside of the A/C, but an STC is overkill.

We as CAP don't need to get the STC, but the company that made the item, they're the one's who have to get the STC.
We just have to make sure that there is an STC for that item for that airplane before we have the A&P do the job.

[JeffDG]

I'm glad the aircraft was found to help provide some closure to the community. Definitely a sad outcome.

Can we really strap whatever we want to the sides of our planes? I'd like to know what that antenna is for.

Lastly, and I obviously say this squarely planted in my armchair, if you're going to be interviewed by the media about the grim task of locating a crashed aircraft with fatalities, it would probably be best to not look so happy about it.

Nope, everything we mount on the airplanes needs an STC (Supplemental Type Certificate) from the FAA.
They can get approval for a temp mounting for a one time deal.

I don't think we need an STC for anything like this.  A 337 or a  "minor alteration" would be sufficient.

An STC requires extensive engineering work, test flights, and the STC itself is published.

We certainly need an A&P to do/supervise the work and sign off on it if we're mounting something on the outside of the A/C, but an STC is overkill.

We as CAP don't need to get the STC, but the company that made the item, they're the one's who have to get the STC.
We just have to make sure that there is an STC for that item for that airplane before we have the A&P do the job.

I still don't think you would need an STC to hook another antenna.  At most a 337, but more likely a logbook signoff for a minor alteration.

If there's an STC, it should be in the AFM in the airplane.

[sardak]

South Dakota Wing tracks animals with radio collars for the state. The W&B for the plane shown in the video has a line for "Animal antennas/mounts are optional equipment. Calculate as necessary." I would guess that's the animal tracking antenna.

Mike

[PHall]

I'm glad the aircraft was found to help provide some closure to the community. Definitely a sad outcome.

Can we really strap whatever we want to the sides of our planes? I'd like to know what that antenna is for.

Lastly, and I obviously say this squarely planted in my armchair, if you're going to be interviewed by the media about the grim task of locating a crashed aircraft with fatalities, it would probably be best to not look so happy about it.

Nope, everything we mount on the airplanes needs an STC (Supplemental Type Certificate) from the FAA.
They can get approval for a temp mounting for a one time deal.

I don't think we need an STC for anything like this.  A 337 or a  "minor alteration" would be sufficient.

An STC requires extensive engineering work, test flights, and the STC itself is published.

We certainly need an A&P to do/supervise the work and sign off on it if we're mounting something on the outside of the A/C, but an STC is overkill.

We as CAP don't need to get the STC, but the company that made the item, they're the one's who have to get the STC.
We just have to make sure that there is an STC for that item for that airplane before we have the A&P do the job.

I still don't think you would need an STC to hook another antenna.  At most a 337, but more likely a logbook signoff for a minor alteration.

If there's an STC, it should be in the AFM in the airplane.

Something like that antenna strapped to the wing strut, as long as no holes were drilled, yeah, logbook entry and signoff.

DF antennas mounted on the top of the cabin that required some holes, a 337.

Bottom line is if it is a temp installation that requires no permament changes to the airplane a logbook entry and signoff will do.
Something that requires holes, let the paperwork begin!

[LSThiker]

It is most likely an animal tracking antenna that has been in place for quite some time.  The aircraft shown is N158CP.  The aircraft used to track animals for SD State University is N158CP.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=6&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CD0QFjAF&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sdstate.edu%2Fnrm%2Fabout%2Fupload%2FNewsletter_Issue-5_Dec-2013_NRM.pdf&ei=ZYB_VJf9M4SgyQT0iYG4DQ&usg=AFQjCNFfoytm46kPWN95_GFa1wVcs9aVww

"News Release from "South Dakota Wing"
"Volunteers from the South Dakota Wing (SDWG) of the Civil Air Patrol (Official Auxiliary of the U.S. Air Force) have been helping graduate student researchers from South Dakota State University track bighorn sheep, mountain lions, elk, wild turkeys, and even endangered grey foxes in cooperation with South Dakota Game Fish and Parks Department in research of these wild animals. Often, not all the animal's tracking collars can be found from the ground, so researchers rely on SDWG to fly them using CAP aircraft and their radio-direction-finding/ homing expertise to help find these collars.
Recently, Mission Pilot Lt. Col. Gary Hewett of the Rushmore Composite Squadron (Rapid City) took to the air with SDSU bighorn sheep researcher, Ms. Brynn Parr. Brynn currently has 17 ewes (female sheep), 6 lambs (young sheep), and 7 rams (male sheep) tagged with radio collars on Elk Mountain in the Black Hills just west of Custer. Eight of these collars are store-on-board global positioning system (GPS) collars, and the remaining 22 are VHF radio collars. The GPS collars collect the animal's location each day along with other data such as temperature, altitude, activity (via number of movements), etc., and store the data on the collar.

Although GPS collars are great, they're expensive: $1,000-$1,500 each. All of the collars are programmed to fall off approximately one year from the date they were deployed. In order to access the data stored on the collars, researchers need to find them when the collar falls off or the animal dies, so they can download the data to their computers. The VHF collars do not collect data; they simply allow researchers to locate the collar (and the animal) without GPS data. Both GPS and VHF collars give off live and mortality signals. The rates of the beeps are different for each collar; the live signal for a GPS collar is approximately 1.5 beeps per second, and the live signal for a VHF collar is approximately 1 beep per second. When the collar has remained stationary for 8 hours, the collars will switch over to a mortality signal, which is twice the rate of the live signal (~3, 2 beeps per second, respectively).
Since the beginning of the latest sheep research project, they have lost nine sheep to predation, four to unknown causes, and three to problems associated with being a weak lamb. The collars allow the researchers to determine survival rates for both adults and lambs, as well as find the carcass of deceased sheep to identify specific causes of mortality. Brynn uses both an omnidirectional and a directional antenna to track the locations of the sheep multiple times a week. She records locations, number of sheep, classifications of the sheep, time, activity, and the frequencies of the collared sheep in the groups. This data allows researchers to estimate the bighorn sheep population on Elk Mountain, as well as assess their movements and determine home ranges, which greatly assist the management of this herd by both S.D. Game, Fish & Parks and also the Wyoming Game and Fish. Researchers are also evaluating the prevalence of disease and genetic diversity in the bighorn sheep through samples collected at the time of the sheep capture. This information is also used to help manage the herd.

The reason for the most recent flight was to find a single GPS-collared ewe. The ewe was last heard from the ground in late September, 2013. On the first weekend of October, the Black Hills area was hit by Winter Storm Atlas, described as "a storm of the century". Some places received more than 5 feet of snow, and some areas had drifts exceeding 20 feet deep driven by the +70 MPH wind. After the storm, Brynn was unable to detect the ewe's signal from the ground. As a few of the GPS collars had stopped transmitting a signal, Brynn assumed this particular collar had quit transmitting as well. All ewes receive an ear tag at the time of capture, which allows for identification of individual ewes wearing collars that do not work. After finding large groups of sheep in late October and early November for breeding, Brynn was able to use the ear tags to determine that the specific lost sheep was no longer in these groups. So she called SDWG which has a memorandum with the State of South Dakota for situations just like this.

SDWG aircraft are tracked in near-real-time by the operations staff through an onboard device called "Spider Track." The device also leaves a historic trail of where the aircraft flew. The details for this particular flight can be found at the Spider Track website (https://go.spidertracks.com/fleetpro/public/civilairpatrol/). To find a spider track of the flight, left click the white "Tracks" link, and after the list populates select the flight for N158CP on 14 Nov 2013. The aircraft normally flies these electronic searches about 110 knots true airspeed (~126mph), at an altitude of about 2000 feet. In cases of a weak collar signal or if there is a need for a more precise location, the aircraft will go somewhat lower to around 1000 feet. As seen on the "Spider Track", the lost sheep was located just west of the Wyoming-South Dakota state line. Since the crew found the ewe so quickly, Brynn took the opportunity of being airborne to search for another sheep to the southeast of where the ewe was located. This was also a GPS collar on a ram. The ram's collar gave off a beep roughly every 5 seconds. This means the collar is failing, but the beep indicated it was still giving off a signal, and therefore still traceable. This was a very short animal tracking mission to locate bighorn sheep. Some longer flights in the past year have taken as much as 4.6 hours to locate mountain lions, some of which are on the move. The area of coverage for this flight was very specific; sheep were located on and around Elk Mountain, which is west of Custer, on the Wyoming-South Dakota state line. Brynn knew about where the lost sheep was last located and the pilot headed directly for that spot. Within minutes of starting the search, the crew heard the beeping collar through their tracking equipment. The fast pattern of the beep of the ewe's collar (approximately 2.5 beeps per second) indicated that the sheep was in one place for at least eight hours. A stationary collar can mean two things: 1) the collar fell off, or 2) the animal is dead, from predation, hunting, or disease. Also, as seen on the Spider Track, after the crew located the lost sheep, the aircraft flew to the southeast. Brynn wanted to locate one more sheep's collar that she had not heard for some time. Just a few minutes later, they found that sheep too. Although the signal was not normal, the sheep had moved from its last known location, and therefore, assumed to be alive. Mission complete, the aircraft returned to Rapid City.

Later that same day, Brynn found a collar on a dead sheep and removed it. The data on the collar was downloaded and it was determined that the sheep had been dead for a little over a month.""

[sardak]

^^Thanks for validating my earlier suppostion.

Mike

[Afbrat52]

Very sad. My mom knew the priest.