How Do I choose my ES "job"?

[will3947]

It's just that simple: look at the title

[EMT-83]

Ask your ES officer.

[Duke Dillio]

Decide what you want to do.  First ask yourself the easy question:  Do I want to fly in a plane, drive or walk around the countryside, or assist at a mission base?  Then go from there.

[docbiochem33]

What do you enjoy most?  Do you want to walk around in the woods?  Do you want to stay inside and do paperwork?  Do you want to be in an aircraft?  Do you want to talk on the radio?  Find something you would like to do and see if you can assist in some area if you can and see if you can complete the training.  If you like it, do it.

[will3947]

ok, I've pretty much decided, but where do I get training? any general place/thing?

[docbiochem33]

Well, start looking at the requirements and read everything you can.  Also start reading and learning the regs.  Also look at the training requirements and look for someone that can get you trained or started.  Oh, but you first have to do the E.S. testing with the E.S. test and the ICS information.  Do the ICS 100, 200, 700.  When there are training weekends you can then attend the ICS 300 and 400 if all of these ICS courses are done.

[will3947]

ok thanks!

[SarDragon]

Let's establish whether you are a cadet or a senior member. If you are a cadet, your primary "job" is the Cadet Program. Get yourself well established in that before you give attention to ES.

[Luis R. Ramos]

Doc-

ICS 300 and ICS 400 are geared to public Law Enforcement, Fire, and EMS. I am not sure other states but here in New York these classes are never offered in a weekend. I think I know why. LE, EMS, Fire and like public employees would expect overtime pay, no? So for volunteers taking these classes in a weekend is out. I took ICS 300 one summer, it was free as a volunteer. The policy in New York is that if you are younger than 18 you may be allowed to attend but will not get a certificate.

Luckily these classes are also offered at NESA. So I intend to take ICS 400 the summer of 2014 if I do not get it in the state for free. I may ask for NESA's "Kitchen scholarship," one week of participation in their classes for one week of kitchen work.

Flyer

[SARDOC]

Doc-

ICS 300 and ICS 400 are geared to public Law Enforcement, Fire, and EMS. I am not sure other states but here in New York these classes are never offered in a weekend. I think I know why. LE, EMS, Fire and like public employees would expect overtime pay, no? So for volunteers taking these classes in a weekend is out. I took ICS 300 one summer, it was free as a volunteer. The policy in New York is that if you are younger than 18 you may be allowed to attend but will not get a certificate.

Luckily these classes are also offered at NESA. So I intend to take ICS 400 the summer of 2014 if I do not get it in the state for free. I may ask for NESA's "Kitchen scholarship," one week of participation in their classes for one week of kitchen work.

Flyer

I know in my wing we have three ICS instructors in Civil Air Patrol.  They host programs on the weekends and it's been popular enough that we've had people from other wings attend.  We've invited other Volunteer groups including the State Defense Force and Volunteer Fire/EMS folks as well as those from the General SAR community.

As far as the 18 Year Old requirement that's a FEMA Requirement not just a New York Requirement

[Luis R. Ramos]

SAR-

If the certificate is a FEMA requirement, why those taking the correspondence classes get the certificate, and those in the classroom classes do not? I would think the enforcement, coming from the same agency, would be uniform.

Very well, good for your Wing! It appears that New York Wing does not have an ICS instructor available that could give the class on a weekend. Those that do, more power for them! And inviting EMS, Law Enforcement, etc. thats excellent as one key aspect for making these classes classroom activities is that all sectors that may be responding to an emergency or disaster get to meet each other.

Flyer

[arajca]

It's a requirement for classroom courses. There is no online ICS 300 or 400 series courses. As for why, ask FEMA.

[Eclipse]

It's a requirement for classroom courses. There is no online ICS 300 or 400 series courses. As for why, ask FEMA.

ICS 300 & 400 are akin to TLC, a big part of them is group dynamics and tabletop exercises, something not done easily, if even possible, online.

I am not a fan whatsoever of in-house ICS 300 & 400.  One of the  primary points of the classes if to get agencies of
different disciplines working together (i.e. out of tactical and into SMART).  CAP people going to someone else's classes mean not only do we
get some great free advertising, but we are out of our comfort zone (not to mention bringing aviation knowledge, which is generally sorely lacking).

There is also the potential risk of "expediency" in the coverage of the curriculum - I've seen a couple times where it was suggested that a day could be
shaved off either class - not a good idea, especially for CAP.

We have a couple of members who are also instructors but at least in my wing, there's plenty of free opportunities from FEMA, including weekend classes, that utilizing them isn't necessary.

[SARDOC]

Flyer,

The FEMA ICS 300/400 programs are supposed to issue certificates on the successful completion of the course.  There is a written test at the end of each course.  FEMA allows certain agencies to host classes.  In my State it's the Department of Emergency Management who authorizes a limited amount of instructors who report the class roster to the state agency who in turn share the 300/400 database with FEMA.  You can only get replacement certificates from the agency that taught your class.  FEMA won't reissue 300/400 certificates.

FEMA requires in person attendance for ICS 300/400.  The problem that we have with certificates in my state is that you have to register for the class through the Emergency Management Website and when the class is over you have to go back to their website to complete the Course Critique, when you complete the Course Critique they provide a link to your certificate.  Most forget that part and wonder why they don't get a certificate.  The State requires the Critique in exchange for the certificate.

[SARDOC]

There is also the potential risk of "expediency" in the coverage of the curriculum - I've seen a couple times where it was suggested that a day could be
shaved off either class - not a good idea, especially for CAP.

I agree.  We do host an In House Class but that's not the focus when we do an ICS 300/400 class.  We teach the class the way it was intended as an ALL HAZARD approach.  While my Counterpart instructor is a Civil Air Patrol Emergency Services guru, My ICS experience has been Fire/EMS/HAZMAT/Urban SAR/ Law Enforcement as well as a Disaster Assistance Employee for FEMA, so I like to think that we together provide a Broad Picture of Roles and Responsibilities in the ICS program.  It is always better to advertise the class to the public, in my area weekend classes are hard to come by so Volunteers from all over try to get in.

[Eclipse]

A few years ago it was harder to get weekend classes then it is today.  My guess would be that as departments shrink, there's less
room to allow officers, fire guys, etc., to take off shift time for a 3-day class, so more call for weekend sessions.

[Luis R. Ramos]

SarDoc-

Reissuing certificates is not the issue.

The issue is that here in New York at least, NY EMO will not issue certificates to those attending in person if they are younger than 18, others in the board say that is a FEMA policy. My question is thus: If FEMA withhold certificates of those attending classroom classes by age, why doesn't FEMA withhold certificates for those taking the online classes? There is an inconsistency here!

Flyer

[Eclipse]

Because they probably don't care who takes the online classes, but don't want anyone under 18 in the "real" ones.

The online classes are just information flashes on the screen, the in-face ones require experience and interactive participation.
Rare is the person under 18 who is going to be able to contribute.

[Luis R. Ramos]

Arajca-

There is no reason to ask FEMA. At some point FEMA decided that some classes can be taught online. Since they also want to foster inter-agency cooperation, including volunteers, they decided that other classes were better suited to foster inter-agency collaboration. These would be best presented by the agencies that would lead the recovery, and for these to interact with the volunteers as well.

Flyer

[Luis R. Ramos]

Eclipse-

"Real ones?"

Really, when a prerequisite for ICS 300 is IS 200? And the requirement for IS 200 is IS 700? And the one for that is IS 100???

So it appears the "Real ones" require the "Fake ones..." That you cannot attend the "Real ones" without the "Fake ones."

Flyer

[Eclipse]

Yes, "fake".  That's my opinion of online, open book tests.  They take less then 1/2 attention and can usually be knocked out while watching youtube, especially if you have an even cursory knowledge of the material.  Check-boxes, nothing more, which is why its so frustrating that getting members to
take care of them, especially cadets is like splitting teeth.

As to being "required".  Irrelevant.  You can knock them out on your phone while driving to the class, or in line waiting to register, not that anyone
ever checks (or at least they don't check in the foreground).

100/200/700/800 Yeager, just add them to the piles of exercises in the F3 key.

Nothing more.

300, 400, BISC, SMC, those classes require time commitment and participation.  Very useful and "real".

[SARDOC]

Flyer,

I will check why for the age variance.  I know that the FEMA rules withhold 300/400 certificates to those below 18.  They also recommend at least a year (not required between taking classes)  It might be a maturity issue.  At the same time, there are communities that would require IS100, 200, 700, 800 for their Junior Firefighters (as early as 14 y.o.in some places) and Volunteer EMT's (16 y.o. in some places).

They may think that someone under 18 may not have the experience or maturity to act in a management capacity on an intermediate/expanding/advanced incident which is who the target audience is for 300 and 400.  This might be the closet FEMA can get on regulating it.

Having been an EMT since I was 18 and a Paramedic since 19.  I can tell you some of the looks people would give me when they realized I was the "Senior" (certification wise) Thus in charge...when you are a Volunteer 19 Year old, ordering 20 Year Career Firefighters and having the authority to launch the regional Medevac helo (Which the Career Fire Battalion Chief didn't have the authority to do)  Some people really get chapped.    It's a lot of responsibility at that age, so much that I was already been to boot camp, can order Thousands of dollars worth of resources with the touch of a button, had standing orders to issue Narcotics as I saw fit....but I was not responsible enough to drink beer.  Not everything makes sense but I will research the question utilizing my training department.

[Private Investigator]

Yes, "fake".  That's my opinion of online, open book tests.  They take less then 1/2 attention and can usually be knocked out while watching youtube, especially if you have an even cursory knowledge of the material.  Check-boxes, nothing more, which is why its so frustrating that getting members to
take care of them, especially cadets is like splitting teeth.

As to being "required".  Irrelevant.  You can knock them out on your phone while driving to the class, or in line waiting to register, not that anyone
ever checks (or at least they don't check in the foreground).

100/200/700/800 Yeager, just add them to the piles of exercises in the F3 key.

Nothing more.

300, 400, BISC, SMC, those classes require time commitment and participation.  Very useful and "real".

I concur   :clap:

[will3947]

ok thanks broski!

[docbiochem33]

In an earlier post I mentioned ICS 300 and ICS 400.  These courses are not required for initial entry into the ES training and Education part of E.S. for most members.  If one wants to continue and would like to become something more than a ground team member or leader they will probably need the courses.  One will have to check on the requirements for each job.