CERT, CAP, and Emergencies

[usafcap1]

I'm on my local CERT team and I'm getting trained in Disaster Relief for CAP. I guess my real question is If there is a disaster and CAP pages me and then two sec. later I get a page from CERT who do I respond to?


Thank you

[RiverAux]

In somewhat similar situations I go with whoever called me first.  I might make an exception if I thought that in those particular circumstances I could do more good going with the second organization.  However, if I'd made a commitment to respond to the first organization, I would stick with it. 

[EMT-83]

I'm on the disaster response team for my day job, usually a key player in our local EOC on a volunteer basis, and pretty active in ES for CAP.

Number one priority is always the day job, but there are times that incidents impact my home town and not work. The opposite is sometimes true. The EOC comes before CAP, because we're coordinating first responders to the incident. By the time CAP gets involved, the immediate emergency is usually over and we're dealing with ongoing support operations.

For Irene and Sandy, I was involved in all three areas. I couldn't fully engage with CAP until a couple of days in, but did fill air crew and mission base positions.

[Fubar]

Hopefully this isn't too off-topic, but I was just talking with a couple of emergency managers a couple of weeks about about one of the reasons they are reluctant to rely on volunteer agencies while preparing disaster response plans is the issue with accurate manpower reporting. One of the EMs earlier in 2012 requested rosters from the various volunteer groups his agency works with. After cross-checking the lists, he discovered an alarming number of names that were on multiple rosters. Planning like you have a 100 volunteers when in fact, 30 or 40 of those people disappear as soon you try to call everyone in at once is a problem.

Obviously, there are other challenges as well as to why some EMs don't like to rely on volunteers for disaster response, but I found this concern interesting. I've been wondering about asking our ESO to go through the various rosters to determine how many folks we have in the unit that may be polygamist volunteers 

[lordmonar]

I'm on my local CERT team and I'm getting trained in Disaster Relief for CAP. I guess my real question is If there is a disaster and CAP pages me and then two sec. later I get a page from CERT who do I respond to?


Thank you

That's the cool part of being a volunteer......You get to choose.

[vento]

I'm on my local CERT team and I'm getting trained in Disaster Relief for CAP. I guess my real question is If there is a disaster and CAP pages me and then two sec. later I get a page from CERT who do I respond to?


Thank you

Luckily this scenerio will not occur on a daily basis. CAP is not a first responder. While CERT is sort of a first responder (not really), it is a last resort kind of first responder. The situation will be really scary when CERT is activated when all the professionals (EMT, FD, PD, etc) are saturated and tasked.

Being both a CAP and CERT member, if it really comes down to selecting either CAP or CERT in a major emergency, I think I will go with CERT. This way I make sure my family, my neighborhood, and my community are being taken care of knowing that some CAP members from less affected areas will jump in and work the mission.

Everybody will have his or her own priorities. YMMV.

[Walkman]

Aside from the standard ES qualifications, CAP doesn't really have any disaster relief training. I would go forward with any ES training you're interested in. You'll find plenty of missions and training where CERT & CAP never meet. And as vento mentioned, the reality is that CERT would be activated only in a true disaster, which don't happen all that often.

[LTC Don]

Aside from the standard ES qualifications, CAP doesn't really have any disaster relief training.

While that may be sadly true at the national level, at the wing level (at least in our wing), it's really not true.

In North Carolina, we have a very strong partnership with our state emergency management agency, and we are aggressively training in a number of diaster areas including CERT, but also FEMA Points of Distribution (IS-26).  Since 2010, we are a first-in POD resource when/if a county makes that request to the state.  CERT has been slower to develop but work continues.

Remember, Federal Law dictates CAP will be active in Disaster Relief.  That CAP nationally has dropped the ball does not excuse lower levels from developing programs that work for them.

As someone has said multiple times, CAP brings a lot more to the table than just manpower to fill sandbags.  If we don't market those resources and develop them to be relevant, then we're just spinning wheels accomplishing nothing.

[Brad]

I'm a dispatcher for my state highway patrol on the coast of the state, a volunteer firefigher, and a Mission Observer and a CUL. So needless to say when a hurricane comes for example, I will be VERY busy. The job that pays comes first, and I've ended up talking to my CAP associates at work once or twice during training drills for hurricane evacuations (we put an 800mhz repeater up in the aircraft and send it up highbird as a backup should our ground repeaters go out.). After that, I'd probably prioritize between the fire dept and CAP on what I can best do and what job needs the manpower the most.

[JeffDG]

Personally, I'd go with the one that has me designated to do something...

Org A:  "Yeah, we need everyone to assemble at XYZ School.  We'll be giving out assignments there."
Org B:  "Hey, we need you to report to ABC Airport, grab the mobile repeater and get launched as a highbird ASAP"

I go with Org B...they already have me slotted with a specific job, and Org A doesn't have me slotted for something, and as such, they have much more flexibility.

[Luis R. Ramos]

My city relies on some city employees from different agencies to staff evacuation shelters in case of hurricanes. I am also ES for my squadron. If called by both the city and CAP I will answer to the city. Call me what you want, but with the debts I have...

But I guess this is really not your situation.

I would follow RiverAux advice - go with whichever calls you first.

Flyer

[Walkman]

Aside from the standard ES qualifications, CAP doesn't really have any disaster relief training.

While that may be sadly true at the national level, at the wing level (at least in our wing), it's really not true.

In North Carolina, we have a very strong partnership with our state emergency management agency, and we are aggressively training in a number of diaster areas including CERT, but also FEMA Points of Distribution (IS-26).  Since 2010, we are a first-in POD resource when/if a county makes that request to the state.  CERT has been slower to develop but work continues.

Remember, Federal Law dictates CAP will be active in Disaster Relief.  That CAP nationally has dropped the ball does not excuse lower levels from developing programs that work for them.

As someone has said multiple times, CAP brings a lot more to the table than just manpower to fill sandbags.  If we don't market those resources and develop them to be relevant, then we're just spinning wheels accomplishing nothing.

Well said and bravo zulu to NCWG. I'd love to see a better national framework in place. The two wings I've been in didn't have any (that I know of) DR training other than what would fit under a normal ES qual.

[Ed Bos]

Remember, Federal Law dictates CAP will be active in Disaster Relief.

(Please note, genuine curiousltiy, no snark or sarcasm intended)
To which law are you referring?

In North Carolina, we have a very strong partnership with our state emergency management agency, and we are aggressively training in a number of diaster areas including CERT, but also FEMA Points of Distribution (IS-26).  Since 2010, we are a first-in POD resource when/if a county makes that request to the state.

Is there any kind of documentation or outline that NCWG folks are using to either recommend or require specific training for Disaster Response folks in the Wing? I'd be very interested in seeing more details about any program that is being put together.

[LTC Don]

The law has always been available for viewing, and is easily searchable, but it has been now included in the finally revised CAPR 20-1 --  page 3

2. Objects and Purposes. The objects and purposes of CAP, as contained in 36 U.S.C. 40302, are to:
a. Provide an organization to encourage and aid citizens of the United States in contributing their efforts, services, and resources in developing aviation and in maintaining air supremacy.
b.Encourage and develop by example the voluntary contribution of private citizens to the public welfare.
c. Provide aviation and aerospace education and training especially to its senior and cadet members.
d.Encourage and foster civil aviation in local communities.
e. Provide an organization of private citizens with adequate facilities to assist in meeting local and national emergencies.
f. Assist the Department of the Air Force in fulfilling its noncombat programs and missions.

The key bullet here being 'e'  but 'f' bears mentioning.  It was not in the old version of 20-1, and looking at it objectively, is loaded with opportunity, if the Air Force is willing to sit down and take a hard look what can be done from a noncombat perspective by we wannabes.

However, Title 36 U.S.C. is not the whole story.

Also now included in CAPR 20-1 is a smattering of statements from Title 10, U.S.C., page 4

11. Authority. 10 U.S.C. 9442 – 9448 establishes the relationship between the Air Force and CAP. The Air Force may furnish to the CAP any equipment, supplies and other resources the Air Force determines necessary to enable the CAP to fulfill the missions assigned by the Air Force as an auxiliary of the Air Force. The legal instrument used to transfer resources to the CAP is a Cooperative Agreement (CA) which the Air Force and CAP entered into effective 1 October 2000. The CA, along with the attached Statement of Work (SOW), establish what support the Air Force may provide to CAP.

Section 9443 specifically outlines disaster relief as an authorized activity.  What's really interesting is that SAR is not mentioned except as an additional duty or activity in Title 36 or Title 10.

10 USC Sec. 9443                                       01/07/2011
(1) "to provide assistance requested by State or local governmental authorities to perform disaster relief missions and activities, other emergency missions and activities, and nonemergency missions and activities; and

(2) to fulfill its other purposes set forth in section 40302 of title 36."

HOWEVER, the actual verbiage of Section 9443, to put this inproper context is (from here: http://uscode.house.gov/download/pls/10C909.txt ) with added emphasis.

Sec. 9443. Activities performed as federally chartered nonprofit
      corporation

-STATUTE-
      (a) Use of Federally Provided Resources. - In its status as a
    federally chartered nonprofit corporation, the Civil Air Patrol may
    use equipment, supplies, and other resources, including aircraft,
    motor vehicles, computers, and communications equipment, provided
    to the Civil Air Patrol by a department or agency of the Federal
    Government or acquired by or for the Civil Air Patrol with
    appropriated funds (or with funds of the Civil Air Patrol, but
    reimbursed from appropriated funds) -
        (1) to provide assistance requested by State or local
      governmental authorities to perform disaster relief missions and
      activities, other emergency missions and activities, and
      nonemergency missions and activities; and
        (2) to fulfill its other purposes set forth in section 40302 of
      title 36.

      (b) Use Subject to Applicable Laws. - The use of equipment,
    supplies, or other resources under subsection (a) is subject to the
    laws and regulations that govern the use by nonprofit corporations
    of federally provided assets or of assets purchased with
    appropriated funds, as the case may be.
      (c) Authority Not Contingent on Reimbursement. - The authority
    for the Civil Air Patrol to provide assistance under subsection
    (a)(1) is not contingent on the Civil Air Patrol being reimbursed
    for the cost of providing the assistance. If the Civil Air Patrol
    elects to require reimbursement for the provision of assistance
    under such subsection, the Civil Air Patrol may establish the
    reimbursement rate at a rate less than the rates charged by private
    sector sources for equivalent services.
      (d) Liability Insurance. - The Secretary of the Air Force may
    provide the Civil Air Patrol with funds for paying the cost of
    liability insurance to cover missions and activities carried out
    under this section.

Paragraph A, essentially authorizes CAP to use equipment purchased with appropriated funds while performing DR-related activities in support of whomever makes the request whether it be local, state, or Federal government.

Now, how all of that should shape policy is above my pay grade, or how national documents and regulations should be crafted to make sure we are carrying out our duties and responsibilities to meet the 'spirit' of the law.

What we are doing in N.C. is trying to implement programs that are relevant to us, and that our volunteers can do that is meaningful to them and the community.

While some updating is needed, here is the DR page on the NC Wing website:
http://www.ncwg.cap.gov/index.cfm?fuseaction=page.display&pageID=53

In terms of CAP being listed in other statutes, I'm sure there are other contexts and caveats that probably should be noted but I'm not aware of where they are.

It is my opinion that CAP needs to come out of the '60's and 70's in terms of thinking and roll up Emergency Services into a new, restructured operations area as Civil Air Patrol Emergency Management and try to follow the USAF Emergency Management model in as much as we can.  Whether that is actually a viable concept or not, I don't know.

[Eclipse]

What we need to do is follow the existing regulations and programs published today.

It's all there, clear, concise, and easy to understand.  Who does what, job descriptions, and responsibilities.
Much of which is largely ignored in a haze of assumptions, predispostions, WIWAC, and "you're lucky I showed up at all...".

There's some places that could be clarified, and I'd agree with anyone who says a DR doctrine and training program should be added,
but simply saying we should adopt some at-cost, non-governmental standard in the hopes it will get us more missions is misguided at best.

Taking an online test and writing a check won't get us anymore missions.  It's meaningless.

What will get us missions is the national leadership establishing working relationships with the "alphabet agencies", including clear
rules about "who gets called when, and who pays for what" (this is routinely much more of an issue then what are certs are), and commanders
and staff below national, down to the unit level doing their jobs, and supporting the total mission, including ramifications for poor performance.

That would get us a lot more respect in the SAR/DR community then another patch on the uniform or a card in our wallets.

[Texas Raiders]

What we need to do is follow the existing regulations and programs published today.

It's all there, clear, concise, and easy to understand.  Who does what, job descriptions, and responsibilities.
Much of which is largely ignored in a haze of assumptions, predispostions, WIWAC, and "you're lucky I showed up at all...".

There's some places that could be clarified, and I'd agree with anyone who says a DR doctrine and training program should be added,
but simply saying we should adopt some at-cost, non-governmental standard in the hopes it will get us more missions is misguided at best.

Taking an online test and writing a check won't get us anymore missions.  It's meaningless.

What will get us missions is the national leadership establishing working relationships with the "alphabet agencies", including clear
rules about "who gets called when, and who pays for what" (this is routinely much more of an issue then what are certs are), and commanders
and staff below national, down to the unit level doing their jobs, and supporting the total mission, including ramifications for poor performance.

That would get us a lot more respect in the SAR/DR community then another patch on the uniform or a card in our wallets.

:clap: :clap: HEAR, HEAR!!  :clap: :clap:

[Woodsy]

In this situation, I would go with who needs me more.

If the CERT Team can operate fine without me, but I'm the only MO available and CAP can't launch without me, then it's CAP.

If I'm not critical to either team and would just be support, then I'd pick what I'd rather do.  For example, I'd rather be in the disaster area with CERT handing out supplies to victims than sitting at a desk at a CAP base checking people in and out of the mission as an MSA.  Not that that's not important, but if it comes down to it, the IC can do it himself.  The mission will go on. 

If I'm equally critical to both, then I'd use my priority list, which has been established previously.  I make sure those lower on the list know this.  I wouldn't want them to count on me only to find out I'm doing something with CAP.  They are happy when I'm able to help, but I am not a critical component to them as I am to CAP.

[Eclipse]

The other thing to consider.

CERT is all about self / neighbor care, so if you're getting called by your CERT team, your neighborhood or town
is likely in need.

CAP, on the other hand, is going to be calling up resources from your wing to support the same area, and in most
cases would discourage people in the affected area from participating in the response (since they should be
helping themselves), and, in most cases losing a handful of people from a given disaster area who are participating
with anothe agency isn't likely to severley impact CAP operations.

So in a case where something is big enough to get CAP's attention, >and< you're getting a CERT call-up, you should probably grab the CERT vest and let CAP know you'll wave at them when they get there.